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You can't really argue the specific mechanics/realism of fluff like Draigo's. How does he eat is a pointless question, though funny. This legend is akin to those ancient legends of greece, where a hero goes into the underworld, kill a bunch of hades minions and then perform some heroic act in order to save the life of someone or to save the fate of a city or some such nonsense. I'm sure there were many people back then like people in this thread.

"Well, if Achilles was dipped in the river styx then he would've just died. Its the river of the dead, right?" Answer: "Yeah, but he didn't."

=

"Well, if Draigo was thrown into the warp then he would get tired, run out of food, go insane, or be flayed alive. I mean, that's the warp, right?" Answer: "Yeah, but he didn't."

All we have to go on is what is written by the makers of the this lovely game and universe. And if they say Draigo reams the butts of the demons in the warp whilst walking for eternity in his ever changing prison without any hamburgers, then by god that's apparently what he did.

Or you can do as I have, and just take it as some crazy fable passed around by the Grey Knights and the IoM in their darkest hours.

I quite like the crazy fable angle. Though Achilles = Draigo doesn't really work. Achilles had a weak spot. And the legend gave a specific reason why he didn't die, unlike Draigo, who's entire story is based around the explanation 'Just because.'

Deadshot wrote:Maybe the combined belief that the highly Psychic GK chapter, close to 1000 battle brothers, somne of the greatest psykers in the galaxy, have in him, he doesn't die?

1000 psykers is nothing in the big scheme of things, no matter how powerful they may be. It took the death of a race to wake Slaanesh. Since Draigo seems to have comparable power, what with wandering the warp and burning stuff, he'd need a lot more support to survive.

OK, here's another annoying aspect to the whole Draigo thing, per fluff he shows up to boot head on daemons because through the power of handwavium he is pulled through the same warp breach that the daemons come through. I'm willing to buy some sort of brotherly mojo works to pull Draigo into realspace when other GK are nearby, that can be fluffy, especially so if Draigo were actually a warp echo of the original Draigo, brought into being by Draigo's willpower and the GK's faith. What I don't get is how exactly does Draigo get to be used against, say Tau, or Tyranids, or any other army that doesn't require ripping a hole in the universe. You could try to excuse his use against Eldar types by saying he comes through the webway somehow, but even that is a huge stretch.

Because (surprise, surprise) Ward didn't think his fluff through.

Deadshot wrote:Maybe the combined belief that the highly Psychic GK chapter, close to 1000 battle brothers, somne of the greatest psykers in the galaxy, have in him, he doesn't die?

1000 psykers is nothing in the big scheme of things, no matter how powerful they may be. It took the death of a race to wake Slaanesh. Since Draigo seems to have comparable power, what with wandering the warp and burning stuff, he'd need a lot more support to survive.

Deadshot wrote:

Durza wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Maybe the combined belief that the highly Psychic GK chapter, close to 1000 battle brothers, somne of the greatest psykers in the galaxy, have in him, he doesn't die?

1000 psykers is nothing in the big scheme of things, no matter how powerful they may be. It took the death of a race to wake Slaanesh. Since Draigo seems to have comparable power, what with wandering the warp and burning stuff, he'd need a lot more support to survive.

1000 of the most powerful psykers. these aren't the commonly hated magician of the Hab Streets, these are extremely powerful./

My idea is akin to how orks believe that their gun shouldn't jam, so it doesn't even though by all human reasoning the gun shouldn't even be able to load a round.

Except that wouldn't explain why he came back the first time, since there'd be no reason why any, let alone all of them would think he'd come back. And the Eldar are far more psychically attuned than humans. Unless these thousand Grey Knights are about as strong as the Emperor, there's no way they could match the entire Eldar race in their power output.

But we aren't talking about creating a god. Were talking about 1 SM not needing food or sleep. And there was THOUSANDS, perhaps even milliomns of Eldar. A whole race.

Your average Grey Knight honestly isn't really that psychically powerful, to be honest.

Their auras however are anathema to Daemons, and they can combine their powers to create effects greater than the sum of their wholes.

But in terms of raw power, most Grey Knights are nowhere near the level of the average Librarian, Farseer, or Primaris Psyker, for instance.

Deadshot wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Maybe the combined belief that the highly Psychic GK chapter, close to 1000 battle brothers, somne of the greatest psykers in the galaxy, have in him, he doesn't die?

1000 psykers is nothing in the big scheme of things, no matter how powerful they may be. It took the death of a race to wake Slaanesh. Since Draigo seems to have comparable power, what with wandering the warp and burning stuff, he'd need a lot more support to survive.

1000 of the most powerful psykers. these aren't the commonly hated magician of the Hab Streets, these are extremely powerful./

My idea is akin to how orks believe that their gun shouldn't jam, so it doesn't even though by all human reasoning the gun shouldn't even be able to load a round.

There are generally more Orks in a single Ork warband than there are Grey Knights in the galaxy.

And they can only achieve subtle effects most of the time, like a gun not being likely to jam, or making their fuel ridiculously efficient.

Making a mortal, albeit a very powerful mortal, completely immune to raw Chaos and the Warp is a big stretch.

CpatTom wrote:One side of this argument wants the fact that tragic elements are what constitute Ward's product being good with concepts as proof he is a good writer.
The other side argues that the tragic elements are purely coincidence, and that this codex is the ooze that has prematurely seeped forth from an excited fan.

On the second point - I posit that Draigo is "tragic" precisely because he is so awesome. The guy is so ridiculously powerful that the only way to keep him from wrecking the entire setting and ending 40k is to put him in the Warp and assure everyone that all the damage he does self-repairs. Otherwise by now he undoubtedly would have already single-handedly killed Abaddon, Kharn, Typhus, Lucius (but not turned into him) as well as probably the entire Eldar race.

daveNYC wrote:

Deadshot wrote:His weakness is that he is alone and isolated. His being alive actually cripples the Chapter. The Chapter/Supreme Grand Master of a chapter niormally helps to make the importent discisions. With him in the Warp, they must rely on a coalition of Grand Masters. And they can't elect a new Master in his place.

Being alone and isolated, yet still being an unstoppable killing machine isn't exactly a weakness, and not being around to guide the chapter actually only hurts the chapter, not the character himself.
Was there anything in the fluff to explain why the Grey Knights didn't elect a new Chapter Master (or whatever their specific title is) after Draigo got pulled into the warp the first time? They must have assumed that he was dead, so why didn't they pick a new leader?

As with any good Mary Sue, his "flaws" are actually strengths.

daveNYC wrote:OK, here's another annoying aspect to the whole Draigo thing, per fluff he shows up to boot head on daemons because through the power of handwavium he is pulled through the same warp breach that the daemons come through.

Actually, according to my top secret sources, the summoned lesser daemons in the next CSM codex will be the same as the ones from the Chaos Daemons codex, but to balance this out when they suffer a Deep Strike mishap they are destroyed and Draigo is deployed instead (your opponent gets to control him). Also note that this may result in multiple Draigos on the table at the same time - Draigo is so awesome he can be in multiple places at once! Also, when Abaddon rolls a 1 to hit with Drachnyen Draigo's fist pops out and suckerpunches him in the face.

In fact, I heard that in 6th edition the Draigo unit entry will be copypasted in the main rulebook and the new Deep Strike mishap table will be altered as such:

1-2 Terrible accident! The entire unit is destroyed!
3-4 Misplaced. Your opponent may deploy the unit anywhere on the table (including inside difficult terrain, which of course counts as dangerous for Deep Striking units!), in a valid Deep Stike formation, but without rolling for scatter.
5 Delayed. The unit is placed back in reserve. If the unit is unlucky enough that the game ends while it is still in reserve, it counts as destroyed.
6 DRAIGO! Now you're really in trouble! The entire unit is destroyed and replaced by Kaldor Draigo. Draigo is controlled by player with the highest roll on a D6 subject to the the following modifiers based on which army they play (your opponent wins any ties):
Grey Knights: +18
Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars: +12
Imperial Guard: +6
Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons: -6
Sisters of Battle: -12
The controlling player may deploy Draigo anywhere on the table (including inside difficult terrain, which of course does NOT count as dangerous for Kaldor Draigo since Draigo is obviously more dangerous to the terrain than than it is to him), but without rolling for scatter.

Okay, I actually laughed. Damn you.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

In fact, I heard that in 6th edition the Draigo unit entry will be copypasted in the main rulebook and the new Deep Strike mishap table will be altered as such:

1-2 Terrible accident! The entire unit is destroyed!
3-4 Misplaced. Your opponent may deploy the unit anywhere on the table (including inside difficult terrain, which of course counts as dangerous for Deep Striking units!), in a valid Deep Stike formation, but without rolling for scatter.
5 Delayed. The unit is placed back in reserve. If the unit is unlucky enough that the game ends while it is still in reserve, it counts as destroyed.
6 DRAIGO! Now you're really in trouble! The entire unit is destroyed and replaced by Kaldor Draigo. Draigo is controlled by player with the highest roll on a D6 subject to the the following modifiers based on which army they play (your opponent wins any ties):
Ultramarines: +24
Grey Knights: +18
Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars: +12
Imperial Guard: +6
Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons: -6
Sisters of Battle: -12
The controlling player may deploy Draigo anywhere on the table (including inside difficult terrain, which of course does NOT count as dangerous for Kaldor Draigo since Draigo is obviously more dangerous to the terrain than than it is to him), but without rolling for scatter.

We all know that Draigo trapped himself in the void because he knew, deep down inside, that he could never be an ultramarine.

I didn't write that.

junk wrote:

Void_Dragon wrote:

In fact, I heard that in 6th edition the Draigo unit entry will be copypasted in the main rulebook and the new Deep Strike mishap table will be altered as such:

1-2 Terrible accident! The entire unit is destroyed!
3-4 Misplaced. Your opponent may deploy the unit anywhere on the table (including inside difficult terrain, which of course counts as dangerous for Deep Striking units!), in a valid Deep Stike formation, but without rolling for scatter.
5 Delayed. The unit is placed back in reserve. If the unit is unlucky enough that the game ends while it is still in reserve, it counts as destroyed.
6 DRAIGO! Now you're really in trouble! The entire unit is destroyed and replaced by Kaldor Draigo. Draigo is controlled by player with the highest roll on a D6 subject to the the following modifiers based on which army they play (your opponent wins any ties):
Ultramarines: +24
Grey Knights: +18
Space Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars: +12
Imperial Guard: +6
Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons: -6
Sisters of Battle: -12
The controlling player may deploy Draigo anywhere on the table (including inside difficult terrain, which of course does NOT count as dangerous for Kaldor Draigo since Draigo is obviously more dangerous to the terrain than than it is to him), but without rolling for scatter.

We all know that Draigo trapped himself in the viod because he knew he could never be an ultramarine.

I heard it went like this.


Calgar to the then-Justicar Draigo
"Kaldor, as Master of the Ultamate Legion of Smurfs, I command you to join my chapter as head librarian, to replace the fether Tiguirius. The bugger is talking to the Hive Mind and telling him what cards I am holding at HQ Poker Night! Come and serve me you mutant freak-er, I mean, noble Warrior! Come and serve the Blue Midgets!"

Draigo

" Hold on, I have got things to do! ui got Primarchs to beat up, Greater Daemons to wrestle with and I have to nuke Tallassar at 4, because M'kar the Reborn came back. That's the bugger who'll trap me in the Warp when I am supreme Grand Master!"

CalgaR-" Holy Throne, you're an arrogant little Hellspawn- I mean Knight, aren't you?"

" Bite Me"

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

chromedog wrote:I don't hate draigo.

I just deny the existence of anyone called it.

There was only one Drago; Ivan. He was punched into oblivion by Rocky Balboa.

Any other fluff which I disagree with is ignored. It's not like I'm ever going to use the model or its rules, anyway - even as a GK player.

And what happens when your enemy plays him?

"OK, Draigo wounds and kills 3 of your marines!"

"Nu-uh, there's no one there!"

Well then, I'll deal with that rhetorical question if it ever happens.

1. I DON'T play in tournaments (so this will never happen)
2. There are NO other GK players in my area. There used to be but they got disgusted with no update in 10 years that they gave up and played something else - and they sold their stuff to me.
3. Most SM players switch (around here) from chapter to chapter more often than they change underwear (the idea of finding something and sticking with it* seems alien and unlogical** to them) and the next time my club has an inter-club gathering where it could happen, another SM codex will have been released, and those former GK (and before that, spiky dark black space blood wolf templar angels) players will be switching to play them

* Apart from one set of underwear and the idea of no deodorant.
**Yes, I've had someone use this word in a sentence. Rather like Tenaciousness.
You'd'a thunk they'd at least pick up some learnin's at that school thing they were made to attend.

Void__Dragon wrote:I didn't write that.

Sorry. I have no idea why I thought you did.

Also, I think that based on fluff, M.Ward still thinks Calgar>Kaldor
Calgar killed a bloodthirster bare handed, or was that Cato?

I wouldn't call "having the Gauntlets of Ultramar bionically welded to your torso" "bare-handed".

I'm also not familiar with the instance of which you speak.

But nah, Draigo makes Greater Daemons look sad and pitiful in the Warp, where they are at their strongest.

I don't know, I think I picked it up in some other matt ward hate thread. Well, greater daemons did need a good stomping in the fluff; I don't see them putting up many Ws in the crunch.

chromedog wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

chromedog wrote:I don't hate draigo.

I just deny the existence of anyone called it.

There was only one Drago; Ivan. He was punched into oblivion by Rocky Balboa.

Any other fluff which I disagree with is ignored. It's not like I'm ever going to use the model or its rules, anyway - even as a GK player.

And what happens when your enemy plays him?

"OK, Draigo wounds and kills 3 of your marines!"

"Nu-uh, there's no one there!"

Well then, I'll deal with that rhetorical question if it ever happens.

For the record mine wasn't rhetoric.

I'm tired. I have neither time, nor the energy to properly organize thoughts on such a complex heretical conspiracy as those dealing with the truly magnificent Supreme Grand Master Draigo (A title more truthful, I have rarely had the pleasure to hear given to a faithful follower of our God-Emperor).

The lines of thoughts running rampant among the general imperial population on Dakkan 2 appear to represent a possible breach in Imperial Doctrine on the effects of the Warp on faithful servants of the God-Emperor. Further investigation into exactly what sentiments are spreading, and heretical elements must be dealt with as situation dictates.

Deadshot wrote:

For the record mine wasn't rhetoric.

Yes, but you were asking ME.

I've yet to see it (ANYONE using Drago*. )

I don't play in 40k tournaments, so I won't see it there.

I don't play in GW stores (there is ONE inside a 2 hour driving radius and it isn't big enough to skin a cat in - explains the smell though).

I don't play (40k) in an FLGS (I don't have a friendly LOCAL gaming store) the nearest one is over an hour away.

No-one in my gaming circle plays GK (apart from me), so I won't see it there. They seem to like Space Blood Wolf sparklies.

I will only be playing 40k up until 6th edition - so there's what? Another year to go?

So it is very much a rhetorical question from my pov.

Your kilometre**-age may diverge from this.


* See my previous statement. There is no drago but Ivan, and he was taken care of by rocky.
** We use metric here - maybe the adage suffers because of it. Better it than me.

I sometimerwe use metric, but sometimes Imperial to match 40K style.

I actually feel sorry for you, that you never get to see a Draigo model, play games regularly, or even play against armies of than Long Fang Razor spam.


Why will you be stopping at 6th?

Oh, I play most weekends. I have a choice of two clubs to attend.

I have actually seen the model (in the local GW store window - the wife's doctor's surgery is 2 doors down so I walk past it) and loathe the model anyway (it's too be-blinged with crap).

Thankfully, the main perpetrators of space blood wolf angel deathfang crap are not at my club when I am there - so I don't have to play them.

Besides, I also play Infinity to give myself a break from 40kwolfspam. Although with werewolves in Infinity, I can't get that far away from it.

Why will I be stopping at 6th ed?
What? After 25 years, you wouldn't want a break?
You don't get 25 years for murder these days.

Besides, I have a group itching to play Tomorrow's war with our existing 40k stuff - and we will consume mass quantities of beer whilst doing so. What more can I want?

chromedog wrote:* See my previous statement. There is no drago but Ivan, and he was taken care of by rocky.

Wait a minute... I get it! Draigo is just an elaborate set-up by Mat Ward for when he redoes the Imperial Guard codex! He creates this godlike killing machine more powerful than any other entity in the entire setting, only to have him beaten in a sparring match by SLY MARBO!*

*as revenge for the sanctioned death of his Catachan brother, Apollo Predatorius.

That... is brilliant.

Ababababababooooooooon or whatever.


You. Are. A. Genius.
You. Are. A. God.

Now we have to delete the post. Somewhere out there, GW is patrolling Dakka, and when they see stuff like that, they turn round and shoput to Ward, so he'll have to change the idea.

Whilst considering the Emperor had decided to play pokemon, or digimon, or whatever pet leveling crap the emperor plays with the introduction of Sanguinomon and Draigomon, I completely missed the thread staring me right in the face! This is most definitively the answer, a set up for the Sly Marbo Draigo matchup!

Draigo VS Sly Marbo...


in Mrotal Kombat!


Draigo-" Come on you swine. Let's have you!"

Marbo-" No. Just no. Go home. Go back to slaying Priomarchs, you wortthless pieceof Ward. I beat Khorne in an arm wrestle, then killed him for lulz. Just....nah. Go home"

Depressed draigo-2 oh, well ok."

just walks off and opens a DE WWP type thing, is about to go in the Warp, and suddenly has a heart attack, one for each heart, simply because Marbo thought about having KFC for lunch.

daveNYC wrote:OK, here's another annoying aspect to the whole Draigo thing, per fluff he shows up to boot head on daemons because through the power of handwavium he is pulled through the same warp breach that the daemons come through. I'm willing to buy some sort of brotherly mojo works to pull Draigo into realspace when other GK are nearby, that can be fluffy, especially so if Draigo were actually a warp echo of the original Draigo, brought into being by Draigo's willpower and the GK's faith. What I don't get is how exactly does Draigo get to be used against, say Tau, or Tyranids, or any other army that doesn't require ripping a hole in the universe. You could try to excuse his use against Eldar types by saying he comes through the webway somehow, but even that is a huge stretch.

Durza wrote:Because (surprise, surprise) Ward didn't think his fluff through.

Tau: Experimentation with more efficient warp drives lead to a warp rift opening on a Tau world. Grey Knights arrive to stop its expansion before it threatens human worlds. Draigo accidentaly falls through.

Eldar: A Webway Gate is breached during a fight between Draigo and some Daemons. The Eldar show up to banish the daemons and fix the gate. Grey Knights arrive hoping to contact and recover their lost Supreme Grand Master.

Tyranids: The Shadow in the Warp is causing a massive daemonic exodus, Draigo is swept up with the rest of the tide and forced into the real world. Grey Knights arrive hoping to contact and recover their lost Supreme Grand Master.

Not every battle needs a narrative, and even then, the codex writers shouldn't have to explain these things for you. If you care enough about the story, you're able to make something up on your own.