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BrainDeleted wrote:But both of those quickly rebuilt/regrew as stated a million times in this thread.

"...and for a long time the gusting Warp-winds carried only a charcoal stench and the tortured screaming of demonic vegetation."

"...in reply the Grey Knight smote the city walls and left the bird-Daemon entombed amongst the ruins."

"The Deamons he slew inevitably returned in new bodies..."

Despite the misinformation being promoted by random posters in this thread, each instance in the text alludes to a period of time taking place.

"...for a long time" "...left...entombed...ruins" "inevitably returned."

When read for context, these are words that offer clues that time spans are taking place.

Radiation wrote:Draigo walks the righteous path through the Warp. Wasn't this what the Emperor was preparing humanity for? The Imperium of Man is supposed to be at the crossroads to something like this. The Corpse God is not going to reincarnate and coddle the weak. But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed. Men are supposed to master the Warp and no longer need rely on him. They will be strong enough to protect themselves against the predations of the false gods. Aren't these the original teachings? Man is on the threshold of a psychic transformation. Sounds like Draigo made the jump.

Draigo cares nothing about your weak and pathetic attempts at disbelief. Your thoughts only serve to expand his mythos, even the more heretical systems of faith represented here.

Cpatom: I have already stated what I think Draigo is. I like your idea that he died and has been replaced by a form of Imperial Daemon. But I think that it is heresy.

In regards to eating. "With cleansing fire he drove daemonic taint from the beast's great axe, and used the molten remains to reforge his own sword."

So he probably does eat pizza and cheeseburgers. Whatever he is eating, its probably barbqued well done and tastes nothing like daemonic taint.

I already said he does that.At least someone agrees.

Deadshot wrote:I already said he does that.At least someone agrees.

Yes.

I said it with more eloquence.

Daemon's are not made of flesh & blood. The reality is probably more along the lines of the cop out answer: 'He's in the warp so he doesn't need to eat.'

BrainDeleted wrote:Daemon's are not made of flesh & blood. The reality is probably more along the lines of the cop out answer: 'He's in the warp so he doesn't need to eat.'

What reality is it that you speak of when you speak of your dreams of living in a dream that was dreamed by another dreamer? There is nothing in the visions that says anything about food. It is irrelevant to the tale. Draigo survives and thrives in the Warp. He warps the Warp according to his will and might. Why is it necessary to know such trivialities?

Here is a nice story:

It has been said before that Marines carry tiny ration pills. I once read a thread that debated the scientific merits of such a magic bean. After pages of flaming debate, a result of science as we know it today can not make such a pill. Yet today we can easily walk to the pharmacy and obtain a small bottle that will contain 1000 pills of a different sort.

Imagine then a compartment in the bulk of Draigo's TDA. Or the variety of pouches and containers that a regular Marine is allowed to carry. Say then, when Draigo first entered the Warp he only had one standard issue of ration pills. How ever many this was, it was enough for him to survive until he was first ejected out of the Warp to renew his battle at the side of his brothers. And then tragically he was thrown back into the Warp, and again he had enough ration pills, whether more than enough or just enough, until he was ejected for a second time. Now this time during the battle he related his stories and concerns to his fellow battle brothers. During the brutal fighting that is the life of the Grey Knights, those closest to their Grand Master fought and listened intently to the stories he told them. This is what we know of his travels in the Warp. These are the legends.

He also told them they shall all carry extra rations for all time, and when he shows up, quickly now, everyone hand him your extra bottle before the Warp steals him away.

Or he eats Barbque Cheeseburgers.

iproxtaco wrote:
The Catalespean Node doesn't allow an Astartes to go without sleep indefinably. Long-term use causes hallucinations and eventual psychosis, and they simply cannot go without sleep for long periods of time. The longest was something like 300 hours. Draigo needs sleep and food, neither of which are explained in passage, although the Warp has strange ways of bending the laws of the material world.

That explains everything! Draigo didn't really burn down Nurgle's Forest OR Destroyed Tzeentch's City. He's just completely lost his mind.



Anyways, we really do not have enough Info about what he has done other than "Draigo did X, then Y, followed by Z". we need someone to write some novels around Draigo, based on his journey through the warp (Brownie points for the BL writer that does this using references from the Divine Comedy) to get a better Idea of what happened.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
The Catalespean Node doesn't allow an Astartes to go without sleep indefinably. Long-term use causes hallucinations and eventual psychosis, and they simply cannot go without sleep for long periods of time. The longest was something like 300 hours. Draigo needs sleep and food, neither of which are explained in passage, although the Warp has strange ways of bending the laws of the material world.

That explains everything! Draigo didn't really burn down Nurgle's Forest OR Destroyed Tzeentch's City. He's just completely lost his mind.



Anyways, we really do not have enough Info about what he has done other than "Draigo did X, then Y, followed by Z". we need someone to write some novels around Draigo, based on his journey through the warp (Brownie points for the BL writer that does this using references from the Divine Comedy) to get a better Idea of what happened.

it makes so much sense. He didn't do ANY of that he jsut ran around the warp owning gak, after 300 hours(give or take) of the sleep tool he lost hi s fething mind and went so balls out bonkers that even the khoranite berserkers would not touch him. Tzeentchs city didn't get raze it knocked itself down. Kinda like burning down your house to get rid of the emperor botherers outside. Coincidentally something Nurgle did. And if the two events did not happen draigo went running around the warp cackling like a mad man as he punched things and threw molotov space cocktails at the daemons following him with popcorn. Any time he leaves the warp he brags to his friends about all hes doing in the warp. He apparently becomes sane enough to speak beyond "FOR THE EMPRAH" when in real space.

We've already learned that the warp is a realm of psychic energy that can be manipulated by psykers, maybe the first psychic ability draigo learned was 'sticks to snakes', and by sticks I mean immateria and snakes I mean cheeseburgers, but it didn't make it into the book because who the hell cares what draigo snacks on between ass kickings?

There's no mention in the Codex Space Marine forbidding Ultra Marines from having pet bunnies, so should we assume they all just have them? Seriously, I'll bet Calgar has the cutest belgian hare in the chapter.

Radiation wrote:What reality is it that you speak of when you speak of your dreams of living in a dream that was dreamed by another dreamer? There is nothing in the visions that says anything about food. It is irrelevant to the tale. Draigo survives and thrives in the Warp. He warps the Warp according to his will and might. Why is it necessary to know such trivialities?

Here is a nice story:

It has been said before that Marines carry tiny ration pills. I once read a thread that debated the scientific merits of such a magic bean. After pages of flaming debate, a result of science as we know it today can not make such a pill. Yet today we can easily walk to the pharmacy and obtain a small bottle that will contain 1000 pills of a different sort.

Imagine then a compartment in the bulk of Draigo's TDA. Or the variety of pouches and containers that a regular Marine is allowed to carry. Say then, when Draigo first entered the Warp he only had one standard issue of ration pills. How ever many this was, it was enough for him to survive until he was first ejected out of the Warp to renew his battle at the side of his brothers. And then tragically he was thrown back into the Warp, and again he had enough ration pills, whether more than enough or just enough, until he was ejected for a second time. Now this time during the battle he related his stories and concerns to his fellow battle brothers. During the brutal fighting that is the life of the Grey Knights, those closest to their Grand Master fought and listened intently to the stories he told them. This is what we know of his travels in the Warp. These are the legends.

He also told them they shall all carry extra rations for all time, and when he shows up, quickly now, everyone hand him your extra bottle before the Warp steals him away.

Or he eats Barbque Cheeseburgers.

I wouldn't get too hung up on such issues. The warp is a nonsensical place where all the typical rules of life don't really matter. It's not like the Legions needed to hire a boatload of farmers, chefs and plummers when they retreated into the warp either.

I hope you didn't miss the sarcasm of my story. I am leaning towards the eating of mystical cheeseburgers.

junk wrote:We've already learned that the warp is a realm of psychic energy that can be manipulated by psykers, maybe the first psychic ability draigo learned was 'sticks to snakes', and by sticks I mean immateria and snakes I mean cheeseburgers, but it didn't make it into the book because who the hell cares what draigo snacks on between ass kickings?

Nah, that can't be true, because then there'd be a feasible way for Draigo to walk the warp without having his brain go pop. Anticipate the same kind of answers I got when I proposed this a few pages back...

Deadshot wrote:And I would be pointing out that what the GK and Draigo do is not pointless. Each Daemon the chapter kills is one less Daemon threatening the Imperium. Each Daemon that he kills is a Daemon that is not going to be threatening IoM for even longer, becuase it doesn't get the chance to even enter the realm of realspace.

Daemons can't be killed, As is noted in the GK codex IIRC, you can bansih them for a set period of time - and thats about it - I guess the Chaos Powers can unmake one and reabsorb its essence into themselves buts thats about it. The GK in the new Codex have realised this unpalatable truth and actively try to imprison Daemons in the materail realm so they can''t just come back a few hundred years later, but this is the smallest drop in the largest ocean in terms of the numbers nad power of the Daemons in the Warp. Part of the theme behind the GK codex is, as I read it, that like the Imperium they are fighting a loosing battle - its just a matter of time.........

If they really want to stop the incursions they would need get the Necron technology that seals off realspace from the Warp - if thats still current fluff........not sure with the new codex......

I still like the idea that Draigo is actually a Daemon that thinks he is a Grey Knight

The problem with Draigo is that he lacks the most required of character traits for the character to be believable: flaws.

He has plenty of strengths in martial prowess, psychic ability and devotion to the emperor etc.

His lack of flaws is what makes him a bad character as it means he has absolutely no bad traits or weaknesses.

Varrick wrote:

Iur_tae_mont wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
The Catalespean Node doesn't allow an Astartes to go without sleep indefinably. Long-term use causes hallucinations and eventual psychosis, and they simply cannot go without sleep for long periods of time. The longest was something like 300 hours. Draigo needs sleep and food, neither of which are explained in passage, although the Warp has strange ways of bending the laws of the material world.

That explains everything! Draigo didn't really burn down Nurgle's Forest OR Destroyed Tzeentch's City. He's just completely lost his mind.



Anyways, we really do not have enough Info about what he has done other than "Draigo did X, then Y, followed by Z". we need someone to write some novels around Draigo, based on his journey through the warp (Brownie points for the BL writer that does this using references from the Divine Comedy) to get a better Idea of what happened.

it makes so much sense. He didn't do ANY of that he jsut ran around the warp owning gak, after 300 hours(give or take) of the sleep tool he lost hi s fething mind and went so balls out bonkers that even the khoranite berserkers would not touch him. Tzeentchs city didn't get raze it knocked itself down. Kinda like burning down your house to get rid of the emperor botherers outside. Coincidentally something Nurgle did. And if the two events did not happen draigo went running around the warp cackling like a mad man as he punched things and threw molotov space cocktails at the daemons following him with popcorn. Any time he leaves the warp he brags to his friends about all hes doing in the warp. He apparently becomes sane enough to speak beyond "FOR THE EMPRAH" when in real space.

That is just... Perfect!!! The warp itself would be another factor, as it gradually finds a chink in his sanity. If the character as written is a load of tripe, it's best for all of us to have our personal interpretations.

His weakness is that he is alone and isolated. His being alive actually cripples the Chapter. The Chapter/Supreme Grand Master of a chapter niormally helps to make the importent discisions. With him in the Warp, they must rely on a coalition of Grand Masters. And they can't elect a new Master in his place.

Deadshot wrote:His weakness is that he is alone and isolated. His being alive actually cripples the Chapter. The Chapter/Supreme Grand Master of a chapter niormally helps to make the importent discisions. With him in the Warp, they must rely on a coalition of Grand Masters. And they can't elect a new Master in his place.

That is an inconvenience and weakness caused by the situation the character is in, not an inherent weakness of the character himself.

Deadshot wrote:His weakness is that he is alone and isolated. His being alive actually cripples the Chapter. The Chapter/Supreme Grand Master of a chapter niormally helps to make the importent discisions. With him in the Warp, they must rely on a coalition of Grand Masters. And they can't elect a new Master in his place.

Being alone and isolated, yet still being an unstoppable killing machine isn't exactly a weakness, and not being around to guide the chapter actually only hurts the chapter, not the character himself.
Was there anything in the fluff to explain why the Grey Knights didn't elect a new Chapter Master (or whatever their specific title is) after Draigo got pulled into the warp the first time? They must have assumed that he was dead, so why didn't they pick a new leader?

Maybe they had faith that he would prevail, and when he was released they knew for certaion he was alive. then he got sucked back in. my guess is that untill they see his body thebn he will be assumed alive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Isolation is crippling. it can make a man/woman go nuts.

Deadshot wrote:Isolation is crippling. it can make a man/woman go nuts.

And if it had been put in the codex that the millennia (or so it seems to Draigo because of the Warp's effects on Space-Time) of isolation in the warp had left him with nothing but his loyalty to an Emperor he can no longer remember and his ingrained hatred of chaos for reasons he doesn't know then it wouldn't be so bad.

As it is he seems to be withstanding the isolation with no ill effects.

Seems beiong the key word. And both of those statements could be true, for all GK. They have their memeories wiped, so how far do they take it? Loyalty and Hatred for Chaos is like a second naturwe to them, so what if it actually IS their second, mind-controlling nature?

Apologies Radiation. I hope you never have to hold public office.

So, again.
Magic Cheeseburger
-Cleansing Flame Variety
-Imaginary made up burgers
Draigomon
-Tzneetch, for the Lolz
-Emprah, for the Lolz
-GK's, for the Emprah

I don't hate draigo.

I just deny the existence of anyone called it.

There was only one Drago; Ivan. He was punched into oblivion by Rocky Balboa.

Any other fluff which I disagree with is ignored. It's not like I'm ever going to use the model or its rules, anyway - even as a GK player.

Then you miss out, and when someone plonks down Draigo in front of you for a game, yopu going to say, "He isn't real. I refuse to recognise him as legal."?

chromedog wrote:I don't hate draigo.

I just deny the existence of anyone called it.

There was only one Drago; Ivan. He was punched into oblivion by Rocky Balboa.

Any other fluff which I disagree with is ignored. It's not like I'm ever going to use the model or its rules, anyway - even as a GK player.

And what happens when your enemy plays him?

"OK, Draigo wounds and kills 3 of your marines!"

"Nu-uh, there's no one there!"

Draigo was the first GK( and Finecast) model I picked up, specifically for GK( Stormravens, Rhino, Razorbacks, LR and Libby don't count. I got them for my Vanilla Marines already).

You don't use him and you miss out on one powerful little silver bugger.

chromedog wrote:I don't hate draigo.

I just deny the existence of anyone called it.

There was only one Drago; Ivan. He was punched into oblivion by Rocky Balboa.

Any other fluff which I disagree with is ignored. It's not like I'm ever going to use the model or its rules, anyway - even as a GK player.

Weird.

CpatTom wrote:Apologies Radiation. I hope you never have to hold public office.

So, again.
Magic Cheeseburger
-Cleansing Flame Variety
-Imaginary made up burgers
Draigomon
-Tzneetch, for the Lolz
-Emprah, for the Lolz
-GK's, for the Emprah

Apology accepted.

As an American I am a big fan of the magic cheeseburgers. What do you mean by the Draigomon Lolz? Even though I think the idea of Draigo being anything but a rational demihuman killing machine of the highest order is heresy, I like your counter idea of him being a demonic shade. Continue on with that train of thought for another post if you would elaborate on it. I think the last page or so has opened up the field of debate beyond the Mat(t) Ward haters having a distasteful monopoly on the thread. We have a lot of funny/entertaining/adventerous ideas in play now, and I think Draigomon is one of them, although I won't be specifically a proponent of such theological concepts. I do enjoy the friendly and heretical dialogue. Anything that ADDS to the mythos besides the two brief pages of the codex is worth debating in good spirit.

And without going too off topic I do support our current Prez and am looking forward to seeing him re-elected.

If Draigo were still a mortal, GK power aside, his brain should have burned out long ago from his constant battles in the Warp. Seriously, how many swordsmen could fight enemies all around them, left right front and back? Factor in psychic powers and it might be possible for a while, but he'll still burn out after a while. Then factor in top and bottom, since there's not reason why the Warp would force them to obey any semblance of gravity, and any advantage would certainly be nullified. Then factor in that he could conceivably be attacked from the past and future as well, since it is the Warp. No matter how skilled, if he was mortal, Draigo would be long dead.

Maybe he is no longer mortal then?

That would be logical. Unfortunately, his fluff gives no indication that he has become... I suppose a Saint?

Maybe the combined belief that the highly Psychic GK chapter, close to 1000 battle brothers, somne of the greatest psykers in the galaxy, have in him, he doesn't die
?