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This is my first thread (ever) so please be gentle with me.

I have a IG army but simply cannot fit the fluff for their home world into the Imperium so I decided that perhaps the best course of action is to make the world and it's people part of the Tau Empire.

First I'll give you an idea of the general background which I have changed slightly to fit that with the Tau.

The world in question was part of the Imperium but, as the centuries went by it lost contact with the rest of the empire. Over time the planet started improving and developing their own technology, heresy brought on from desperation as the world was constantly raided or invaded by Orks, all cries for help are ignored or go unheard. In the year 951M41 the system was attacked by a Ork Waaagh!, the largest invasion the population has ever faced in the worlds history. Once again calls are sent for aid but receive no answer.
For months the professional army desperately fought the Orks back but just when the military started to gain the upper hand several smaller Ork waaagh!s invaded the system. Victory now seemed impossible but aid finally came, aid in a form which they could not have ever possibly expected.

A Tau fleet, pursuing one of the smaller Ork forces that reinforced the initial Ork invasion, caught the Ork fleet by surprise destroying many before they could exit orbit. After many hours of skirmishes and significant losses the Tau fleet defeated the Orks. With no orbital cover the planets military gained the upper hand once again and, eventually destroyed the Orks that remained.

The world, now seemed to have been abandoned by the Imperium join the Tau Empire willingly.

The fluff isn't set in stone and to be honest the revised background is new.

Now I have a few questions which I hope you can help me with.

1: Would the Tau allow a newly integrated human world rule itself, effectively as a vassal state?

2: Would anything change for the people, would their culture and way of life change to fit the Tau standard?

3: The world wasn't settled by the Tau nor was it conquered, it is an entirely human world so would the Tau tear down human structures and replace it with Tau architecture?

4: As stated earlier the planet's population had improved on standard Imperial technology, ridding themselves of the AdMech before joining the Tau, what would the Tau's attitude be towards a human civilisation that develops it's own technology?

The forth point is really because I have a large IG army and cannot be arsed to modify all of my guard into Gue'vesa. I also don't like the whole Imperial/tau mix look, any conversions I'll do will be subtle, for example the skull and wings on the cadian helmet is now the Ta'u symbol and wings, new sleeker looking las weapons and visored helms with integrated systems. I'd like to just use IG tech so is it possible for that to occur?

5: The world has a professional armed force, not Gua'vesa in the traditional sense. How would the Tau view this and would the Tau use the planet's military formations outside of personal defence, i.e. defense of the Empire overall and perhaps aid in it's expansion?

6: The Tau's attitude to the world having it's own fleet?

That's all for now. Ultimately I'm kinda aiming for a Mass Effect feel where humans intermingle with aliens and I'm happy to accept anyone's personal views with regards to my questions or the planets backround if the established fluff doesn't answer them fully.

Are they a new race (new weapons, rules, etc) or just using Tau and Guard weapons and rules?

Hmm...For the most part, I think a world like this would exist in the same vein as the Kroot and the Vespids and other races the Tau have integrated into their 'Empire'. So I do think it's possible for them to exist very much as a vassal but the Tau would probably attempt to integrate them further into their 'Empire' in the future. If your army is set soon after they align themselves with the Tau, then it would follow that they would be equipped like normal IG for the most part. Just keep them in that immediate time frame and it works. Things start to...Complicate after a few decades.

As for table top play, use the IG codex. If you really want to give them Tau guns...Things get quite murky for fielding them.

There are no new rules although I'd like to introduce some for them at some point, so I will just be using them as vanilla guard at the moment, it's really the background I'm concerned about. The part that bugs me most is the Tau allowing human scientists developing their own tech, even if its in line with Tau advancement, The Kroot and Demiurg certainly still use their own technology with little interference.

What makes them unique and separates them from other humans is that they have improved their tech and have the capacity to manufacture it all of it so their armed forces are very well equipped. Fluff-wise they have better las weapons, integrated systems, more efficient engines, etc but won't affect any game I play.

It's definitely a cool backstory, although I imagine the Tau would have a presence on the planet (at the very least in an advisory/liason capacity) in the interests of the Greater Good. You could show this in your army by putting Tau advisors into your Company Command Squad, using the rules for Regimental Advisors. Even a Guardsman with a communion helm as well as a vox-caster would be cool, although if you aren't keen on the whole mixed look this may not float your boat.

As for technology, I'm not sure how the Tau would treat it. If you can think of a reason for letting them keep it (i.e all available Tau material is being sent to fight the 'Nids/Orks/Imperium) then you could probably get away with letting your Guardsmen keep their stuff.

Zed wrote:It's definitely a cool backstory, although I imagine the Tau would have a presence on the planet (at the very least in an advisory/liason capacity) in the interests of the Greater Good. You could show this in your army by putting Tau advisors into your Company Command Squad, using the rules for Regimental Advisors. Even a Guardsman with a communion helm as well as a vox-caster would be cool, although if you aren't keen on the whole mixed look this may not float your boat.

As for technology, I'm not sure how the Tau would treat it. If you can think of a reason for letting them keep it (i.e all available Tau material is being sent to fight the 'Nids/Orks/Imperium) then you could probably get away with letting your Guardsmen keep their stuff.

I'm glad you like it!

I have a hell of a lot more than that typed up or scribbled around the place, I wasn't willing to fill the thread up with my fluff. I currently have 23 pages of small arms weapons details typed up including info on size, weight, power, rate of fire, attachments, even price per unit and I haven't started on heavy weapons, vehicles and personal equipment. I also have cities, gangs and sports written up somewhere.

I like the idea of a Tau embassy and the Tau adviser for command squads, I have converted vox helms that have laser modules on the side so I wouldn't use the communion helm. An explanation that translation devices are installed in communication equipment will suffice for that.

As you imagine they don't like Orks and fully support the Tau with military assets, especially against the Imperium, they have a bone to pick with them...

Yarrickshad wrote:This is my first thread (ever) so please be gentle with me.

I have a IG army but simply cannot fit the fluff for their home world into the Imperium so I decided that perhaps the best course of action is to make the world and it's people part of the Tau Empire.

First I'll give you an idea of the general background which I have changed slightly to fit that with the Tau.

The world in question was part of the Imperium but, as the centuries went by it lost contact with the rest of the empire. Over time the planet started improving and developing their own technology, heresy brought on from desperation as the world was constantly raided or invaded by Orks, all cries for help are ignored or go unheard. In the year 951M41 the system was attacked by a Ork Waaagh!, the largest invasion the population has ever faced in the worlds history. Once again calls are sent for aid but receive no answer.
For months the professional army desperately fought the Orks back but just when the military started to gain the upper hand several smaller Ork waaagh!s invaded the system. Victory now seemed impossible but aid finally came, aid in a form which they could not have ever possibly expected.

A Tau fleet, pursuing one of the smaller Ork forces that reinforced the initial Ork invasion, caught the Ork fleet by surprise destroying many before they could exit orbit. After many hours of skirmishes and significant losses the Tau fleet defeated the Orks. With no orbital cover the planets military gained the upper hand once again and, eventually destroyed the Orks that remained.

The world, now seemed to have been abandoned by the Imperium join the Tau Empire willingly.

Cool story mate

1: Would the Tau allow a newly integrated human world rule itself, effectively as a vassal state?

Tau would let Humans rule their own world ( liek at Taros ), the ywoudl of course settle world with some Tau, Kroot and Vespid. And had at least Garrison on Tau Fire Caste warriors.

2: Would anything change for the people, would their culture and way of life change to fit the Tau standard?

Probably as time pass that would be inevitable. Just like every other Eath people that cones under rule of some grater nation, it would keep something of it's heritage but it will be grately influeced by that nation.

3: The world wasn't settled by the Tau nor was it conquered, it is an entirely human world so would the Tau tear down human structures and replace it with Tau architecture?

No, Tau don't build their stucture on alien worlds ( no that I know of ).

4: As stated earlier the planet's population had improved on standard Imperial technology, ridding themselves of the AdMech before joining the Tau, what would the Tau's attitude be towards a human civilisation that develops it's own technology?

The forth point is really because I have a large IG army and cannot be arsed to modify all of my guard into Gue'vesa. I also don't like the whole Imperial/tau mix look, any conversions I'll do will be subtle, for example the skull and wings on the cadian helmet is now the Ta'u symbol and wings, new sleeker looking las weapons and visored helms with integrated systems. I'd like to just use IG tech so is it possible for that to occur?

Why not, this is in fact great idea.

5: The world has a professional armed force, not Gua'vesa in the traditional sense. How would the Tau view this and would the Tau use the planet's military formations outside of personal defence, i.e. defense of the Empire overall and perhaps aid in it's expansion?

They would probably call upon them if they need reinforcements somewhere in their empire.

6: The Tau's attitude to the world having it's own fleet?

I think it would be ok, they would probably call it when they need some help. Maybe they will want to explore it since it woudl have Warp drive that Tau lack.

Great story and great army setting, you deserved a pat on the back

Remember reading somewhere that humans under occupation of the Tau develop their own las weaponry... I'm not sure where though.

There is an old WD article, regarding a Tau propaganda broadcast. The human ex-soldier there claimed that, after the Damocles Crusade failed and several regiments were left behind, the tau not only allowed the now stranded human soldiers to keep "their" planet, just because they fought so hard for it in the first place, if they join the Tau Empire.
So yes, i am pretty certain that human enclaves within the tau empire are both possible and likely.

The planetary government would be subservient to the Tau administrative caste.

Think Poland under the Iron Curtain.

I think this is a great idea for conversion, but I think youre too fixated on having your own independent world. If this is the case, you can do just that. Theres plenty of room in the fluff for non-imperial human worlds.

If youre truly going for a Tau incorporated human world, you need to add more Tau. The ideology of the Greater Good would have to permeate the entire culture, Tau would have final say in all government decisions, etc.

And what about 7: How do the Tau keep the psykers who will, over time, be born on this world in check? It would be one of those ironies of which the setting is so fond if the Tau (or their Human subjects) were obliged to create their own Inquisition...

English Assassin wrote:And what about 7: How do the Tau keep the psykers who will, over time, be born on this world in check? It would be one of those ironies of which the setting is so fond if the Tau (or their Human subjects) were obliged to create their own Inquisition...

Tau probably would not worry about it - so it might be something the feldging human administration has to deal with though its own inernal security - might get quite Draconian.....

On the other hand - certainly might prove an eye opener for Tau liasion / forces stationed on planet - especially if they stopped any "silly supersititous witch hunts" and then bad things start to happen..........

Las wrote:The planetary government would be subservient to the Tau administrative caste.

Think Poland under the Iron Curtain.

I think this is a great idea for conversion, but I think youre too fixated on having your own independent world. If this is the case, you can do just that. Theres plenty of room in the fluff for non-imperial human worlds.

If youre truly going for a Tau incorporated human world, you need to add more Tau. The ideology of the Greater Good would have to permeate the entire culture, Tau would have final say in all government decisions, etc.

You have a point, it's just implementing the Tau into the background without diluting or overpowering the human elements, maybe just being allied with the Tau would be better? I think Zed hit a nail with an advisory council and embassy that dictates the worlds policy to benefit the empire as a whole with the empire having the final word. Settled Tau on the service and in orbitals, maybe earth caste scientists helping humans in complicated scientific endeavors, plasma tech etc.

I can go with the greater good permeating the population. It's a little ironic that, in reality, without the supposed pheromone control the Tau are less likely to believe in the Greater Good than the Humans.

Mr Morden wrote: Tau probably would not worry about it - so it might be something the feldging human administration has to deal with though its own inernal security - might get quite Draconian.....

On the other hand - certainly might prove an eye opener for Tau liasion / forces stationed on planet - especially if they stopped any "silly supersititous witch hunts" and then bad things start to happen..........

I think they'd deal with it the way they alway have, Psykers would probably suffer from the usual pogroms , most likely given to the Earth Caste to play with. I do have some info written down for special force units that are expert hunters and assassins that target rogues of a types who are code named Cerberus, nothing to do with Mass Effect by the way, I'm running with a ancient greek theme so storm troopers are spartans, the penal army are called the Helot Legions, you get the drift.

I'd like to keep it as human as possible, a human's perspective of life in association with the Tau is rather compelling. But this world isn't paradise , gangs in both cities and the wilds are rife and raids from brutal homo sapiens variatus on settlements are fairly common.

Tau / Human intereaction might also run along the lines of the Stargate episode where the friendly aliens saved Earth and were later found to be quietly giving humans something to sterilise them over a hundred years or so to leave the planet free from their own colonists in due course..... By the time its discovered nothing can really be done as humanity is dependant on the aliens for proection and techonology.... good episode that and I can see the Tau operating in a similar way.

Your background fluff idea is simular to the one I wrote up for my Oi'Kyse sept, except the human world was colonized during the golden age of technology, and has no contact or prior knowledge of the imperium.

Generally I feel that the Tau will give as much or as little aid to potential additions to the Empire, but these aid efforts will have the underlining effect of swaying the population around to the Tau way of thinking, they are very much a carrot and stick negotiators.

But as long as your vassal human planet supports the Tau and remains loyal in the face of adversity, it will maintain a degree of independance, but as time goes by its civilian population will be seduced by all the nifty Tau conveniences and technology.

As for modeling this confluence of cultures, take as heavy a hand or light as you like, a few advisors in a command squad, maybe some stormtroopers with some Tau-ish heavy las- guns ( effectivly hot shots, just tau looking ), etc.

And if you play in apoc games some actuall Tau units serving side by side with your Guard would be very characterful.

Myself I have settled on the idea that my human planetary troops use wheeled transport and such for most their vehicles and will repeat that in their models, have not as yet started on them since my tau are so fun to paint and convert.

The link for my Sept fluff is in my sig if you want a look see. So welcome to the Tau empire !

And as to some grimdark-ness sterilization program, take or leave that, alot of people like to paint them in sinister colors due to a few lines of text in a game and a roleplaying book, I feel its on a case by case basis, other wise they would be doing it to all their allies, I prefer my little glimmer of hope in all the grimness.

Mr Morden wrote:Tau / Human intereaction might also run along the lines of the Stargate episode where the friendly aliens saved Earth and were later found to be quietly giving humans something to sterilise them over a hundred years or so to leave the planet free from their own colonists in due course..... By the time its discovered nothing can really be done as humanity is dependant on the aliens for protection and techonology.... good episode that and I can see the Tau operating in a similar way.

I have heard of that episode but never seen it myself. The whole Tau sterilisation thing was really born from the non canonical ending of Dark Crusade, not saying they couldn't do that of course. The Kroot apparently breed quicker than both Humans and Tau and they aren't sterilised... There are other races that inhabit the Tau Empire, some of which hate Humans such as the Galgs and Tarellians, might be something to run with later on.


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Soo'Vah'Cha wrote: The link for my Sept fluff is in my sig if you want a look see. So welcome to the Tau empire !

I'll have a look a bit later maybe get some inspiration!

The Tau Empire thing is great! I have so many ideas but most are restricted by Imperial dogma, the Tau Empire has allowed my muse, if you like, to flow with a lot more freedom.

The background story is almost a copy-paste of how the Kroot joined the Tau Empire. And the Kroot have not become soulless tau-drones either.

the Kroot are also mercenaries and only fight for the tau so that they have their protection and so they can eat their enemies.

I have a real problem seeing the Tau as good guys, they seem almost too good. Thus they are evil, souless drones of whom no good can come. you mark my words (shakes walking stick in the general direction of nothing)

Ok got some answers so here's another one.

How would a human army fit into Tau doctrine? Could they (the humans) fight on their own on behalf of the Tau Empire or just as auxiliaries and, if so, where would they fit in?

Thanks for the help.

Yarrickshad wrote:Ok got some answers so here's another one.

How would a human army fit into Tau doctrine? Could they (the humans) fight on their own on behalf of the Tau Empire or just as auxiliaries and, if so, where would they fit in?

Thanks for the help.

The Human army would fit into the planetary defense/local police. They would not fight on their own, the Tau would decide if they want armed forces as tribute and attach them to their cadre as they see fit.
Humans are:

- a) not afraid of Cc
- b) stubborn and may not retreat
- c) willing to start a civil war if they want a change
- d) not specialized enough to make them an obvious addition

Humans would fit in ?
Tau add abilities they don't have, humans would just add bodies as they bring nothing special because Humans are the basic statline creatures of this galaxy. There may be other races who supply them with hth-specialists, infiltrators, snipers, etc etc.
So reproduction rate may earn them a role as meatshields...

I'm pretty sure there are already some rules for Gue'vesa, if you would like to give them pulse weapons.

To be honest the Tau add alien auxiliaries that augment their strengths, not make up for their weaknesses, so determined the Tau are that their way is the right one. As such the Kroot are used not to make up for the Tau's distaste for close combat, but to work in harmony with path finders and stealth teams and Vespid squads for their ability to fight well with Crisis teams.

Of all the auxiliaries the Tau can call upon it is the Vespid they favour the most because they are loyal and dependable. On the other hand the Kroot aren't favoured at all, not only do they favour barbaric practices like eating corpses and a love for scrapping but they're also unreliable and born opportunists, something that is completely at odds with the Tau's Greater Good ideology.

Humans however are remarkably like the Tau themselves, they have a strong sense of honour and duty, can learn to use Tau technology, are reliable, will willingly work towards the Greater Good and can fight the Tau way just as well as any Firewarrior, maybe even better. With that I think human only cadres aren't that farfetched nor even the idea of mixed race Firewarrior cadres, humans have earned a bit of a name for themselves on the western fringes of the empire and seem to be gaining increasing favour.

Tau don't believe in meat shields nor can we say for sure that Humans breed quicker than Tau or Kroot, in fact I'd say both breed quicker than Humans because the Tau live much shorter lives and because of the Kroot's avian ancestry.

Yarrickshad wrote:SNIP

Nice fluff .

English Assassin wrote:And what about 7: How do the Tau keep the psykers who will, over time, be born on this world in check? It would be one of those ironies of which the setting is so fond if the Tau (or their Human subjects) were obliged to create their own Inquisition...

I'm curious about this as well. [Sarcasm]The Tau are super-awesome nd because they're super-awesome, those who join the Tau don't suffer the danger of daemons cause the Tau are awesome[/Sarcasm]. My answer is usually .

Yarrickshad wrote:
I have heard of that episode but never seen it myself. The whole Tau sterilisation thing was really born from the non canonical ending of Dark Crusade, not saying they couldn't do that of course. The Kroot apparently breed quicker than both Humans and Tau and they aren't sterilised... There are other races that inhabit the Tau Empire, some of which hate Humans such as the Galgs and Tarellians, might be something to run with later on.

I believe you mean would seeing as the Tau do sterilizations of human worlds in the Deathwatch rpg. Also, the Tau is something that could have happened if the Tau won Dark Crusade.

Yarrickshad wrote:To be honest the Tau add alien auxiliaries that augment their strengths, not make up for their weaknesses, so determined the Tau are that their way is the right one. As such the Kroot are used not to make up for the Tau's distaste for close combat, but to work in harmony with path finders and stealth teams and Vespid squads for their ability to fight well with Crisis teams.

Of all the auxiliaries the Tau can call upon it is the Vespid they favour the most because they are loyal and dependable. On the other hand the Kroot aren't favoured at all, not only do they favour barbaric practices like eating corpses and a love for scrapping but they're also unreliable and born opportunists, something that is completely at odds with the Tau's Greater Good ideology.

Humans however are remarkably like the Tau themselves, they have a strong sense of honour and duty, can learn to use Tau technology, are reliable, will willingly work towards the Greater Good and can fight the Tau way just as well as any Firewarrior, maybe even better. With that I think human only cadres aren't that farfetched nor even the idea of mixed race Firewarrior cadres, humans have earned a bit of a name for themselves on the western fringes of the empire and seem to be gaining increasing favour.

Tau don't believe in meat shields nor can we say for sure that Humans breed quicker than Tau or Kroot, in fact I'd say both breed quicker than Humans because the Tau live much shorter lives and because of the Kroot's avian ancestry.

Mankinds history is a story of war.
So this honor and duty thingy is all nice, but in the end humans were able to start more rebellions, civil wars and other activities the Tau 'dislike' than those etherals can imagine.
Tau fear one event in their past, and its a single case of a civil war they could not resolve themselves.
Humans OtoH, had countless struggles in different scales and lived on. Without resorting to 'etherals' to keep them of each others throats.
Thus Humans are able to start and end anything, Tau are not.

Tau used Kroot as meathshields to allow their fire caste and civilians to withdraw. I think the term expendable exists in their vocabulatory..

Humans are generalists, and in their variety provide the 'sheep' and the 'wolf' themselves.
In this, they are 'Tau' and 'kroot' at once.

Tau and Kroot have a low population density, this isn't the case if they have no restriction in breeding.
So either the archetype GW used ( ie desert / jungle dwellers ) does not favor a high rate of survivors and lacking the risks like most advanced civilizations do, quick breeding is not an option, or they just can't do it faster.

Shorter lifespans generate the same need for replacement, just on a different timeframe.
A creature living 40 years may or may not breed faster than one living 80 years.

1hadhq wrote:

Tau used Kroot as meathshields to allow their fire caste and civilians to withdraw. I think the term expendable exists in their vocabulatory..

Tau actually reach full maturity at ten.

Anywyas about this quote, your choice of words is hilarious, because it is almost exactly the opposite of what it says in the codex.

Codex Tau Empire pg.13 wrote: The assault troops are not used as pawned-the Tau art of war does not recognise the concept of expendable troops. Instead their safety is entrusted to the troops providing the covering fire who must identify and kill enemy firebases before the assault force suffers serious harm.

Being in the assault force is actually considered an honour, and certain Cadres do not let alien auxiliaries help storm defenses because they aren't worthy.

im2randomghgh wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

Tau used Kroot as meathshields to allow their fire caste and civilians to withdraw. I think the term expendable exists in their vocabulatory..

Tau actually reach full maturity at ten.

Anywyas about this quote, your choice of words is hilarious, because it is almost exactly the opposite of what it says in the codex.

The Tau don't use Kroot like that but not so for humans when it suits the Tau.

Codex Tau Empire pg.13 wrote: The assault troops are not used as pawned-the Tau art of war does not recognise the concept of expendable troops. Instead their safety is entrusted to the troops providing the covering fire who must identify and kill enemy firebases before the assault force suffers serious harm.

Being in the assault force is actually considered an honour, and certain Cadres do not let alien auxiliaries help storm defenses because they aren't worthy.

Mere semantics. The Tau don't understand why people don't praised and join the Greater Good or choose to fight against it nor when they want to make enforce order they don't exceute they just make one disappear.

im2randomghgh wrote:Anywyas about this quote, your choice of words is hilarious, because it is almost exactly the opposite of what it says in the codex.

It is common practice in Tau threads to take official GW statements, negate them and present this (without giving a source of cource) as universal truth, hoping that noone finds out. If someone finds out, just call him a Tau fanboy.

BTW Kroot are mercenaries to the core. Mercenaries are not interested in sacrifical meatshield jobs. And the Tau didn't start a 10 year war with Orks just to get some expendables.

Kroothawk wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Anywyas about this quote, your choice of words is hilarious, because it is almost exactly the opposite of what it says in the codex.

It is common practice in Tau threads to take official GW statements, negate them and present this (without giving a source of cource) as universal truth, hoping that noone finds out. If someone finds out, just call him a Tau fanboy.

BTW Kroot are mercenaries to the core. Mercenaries are not interested in sacrifical meatshield jobs. And the Tau didn't start a 10 year war with Orks just to get some expendables.

I don't do that, I present sources. But I agree with you that the post about the Kroot is just nonsense.

The tau would find a use for any xeno that offered it's services to them like this. why would they turn down free warriors?

Nom

Ok, the Humans would at large keep their world as it was. The Tau would ofc offer Tech and stuff though. The Tau would want something from the world, be it Resources, Military or just some Tau Space. And they would not be stearalised. The only possible event were they would be is if they made a rebelion (and still maby scince the fluff was uncanonical to start with). The reason to the sterilisation in the end of Dark Crussade was because the Humans started rebelling when they heard an Imperial fleet was on its way.