Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, I'm new to the game and loving it but I am doing awful, I mean, just..it is shameful. Mostly though it is just against Necrons and Imperial Guard. The Necrons just tear me apart from range and those mind scackle scarabs grab hold of my Daemon Prince and he apparently like to stab himself in the face. And Imperial Guard, well they just blow me up. Anyway, I was just wondering if there are any tips our tricks out there for Chaos Space Marines.

Honest advice is wait. Supposedly there could be a new codex in the line in less then a year

Really, another codes *facepalm* GW sure likes to make us buy new rules a lot.

I have used Las Cannon Havocs, with a rhino of Bazerkers, that should help with the Imperial Guard,

Never faught Necrons, so........ yeah.

Just make units good at thier jobs. . . . . DONE

Depending on how you're proxying, plague marines are really annoying as IG.
And give all your charectors mark of nurgle, prevents ID from battle cannon...VERY frustrating.

Joey wrote:Depending on how you're proxying, plague marines are really annoying as IG.
And give all your charectors mark of nurgle, prevents ID from battle cannon...VERY frustrating.

Mark of Nurgle doesn't make them immune to instant death. It changes them to 4(5), the same way a bike does. It's harder to wound them with small arms fire, but they can still be ID'd by S8.

To the OP, try doubling up on choices-run 2 daemon princes, not one, and try units in rhinos to rush your opponents. Both enemies are shooty based, so get into CC as quickly as possible. Try to avoid squads with Mindshackle Scarabs though, when using units-shoot those guys instead. Also, can't MSs only cause a guy in a unit to attack one of his own unit-mates? A daemon prince doesn't attack himself, does he? I bought the Necron book for a friend and gave it to him as soon as he got back from college, so I can't look the rule up now.

The units wound themselves. So my daemon prince ends up stabbing himself, alot. Unless he is telling me wrong, could be that, he is still learning the codex.

the2ndredbaron wrote:The units wound themselves. So my daemon prince ends up stabbing himself, alot. Unless he is telling me wrong, could be that, he is still learning the codex.

This sounds like a Daemon Weapon to me, which wounds you if you roll a one. However, a Daemon Prince can't take one. Your friend is wrong, I'm afraid.

EDIT: Oh right, it's the scarabs doing it.

the2ndredbaron wrote:The units wound themselves. So my daemon prince ends up stabbing himself, alot. Unless he is telling me wrong, could be that, he is still learning the codex.

Sorry to say, but technically your opponent is right. The rules say that the mindshackled model attacks its own unit. Since the prince is not an IC, he cannot join other units, so he is a unit on his own. So, technically, he must be hitting himself.

Of course, it makes no practical sense. I expect this to be FAQed that single-model units simply lose their attacks in confusion.

If your opponent is a true sportsman, he would not be abusing the badly (as usual) written rules and would play it as lost attacks.

I forgot to give you some advice about running CSM. I've had decent success will two lash princes, 2x zerkers with rhinos, 2x plaguers with rhinos, 3x autolas preds, and 3x dreads with double DCCW and TL B. The idea is mutual support. Run the dreads in a phalanx, so if one gets crazy, he shoots another dread with a weapon that cannot hurt it. Princes hide behind the dreads for a cover save (better than their own 5++) ready to jump up and kill something when in range. The zerkers are there to prevent hordes swarming the princes or tarpitting the dreads, as well as claim opponent objectives. The plaguers are awesome in holding home objectives - give them max plasma or melta in small squads ( around 7 models). Autolas preds offer long-range support and anti-tank at affordable pricing. This is not a perfect army, but decent and fun to play. You can exchange the princes for sorcerers with lashes and attach them to the zerkers.

I generally recommend against obliterators and thousand sons because the point cost is too high although they are awesome units. Regular CSMs are the cheapest but without fearless and ATSKNF, they are prone to being swept. You can give them an icon for a reroll, but if the carrying model loses it, you are in trouble; also, the icon does not make them stubborn. With all the cultist troops being fearless, regular CSMs just don't do it for me. Frankly, they should be stubborn. LRs are not cost-effective without POTMS, IMO. My vindicators scatter a lot, but generally they are supposed to work well with lashes. I have no experience with daemons, but people seem to dislike them.

Overall, the units are overpriced, so you have to be very careful with the spending of points. Try to get a lot of bodies, buy them rhinos, stock up on meltas, and always make the units work together. Due to relatively low body count, the CSM army has to stick together and focus.

One last thing - don't forget that your marines have pistols (except for thousand sons, IIRC). This means an extra attack in close combat, and an extra shot before charging in. It is awesome!

Here is my 2 cents. I don't play CSM, but my roommate does, and I fight his army regularly, and its really good/he's really good at it. Some things I have found work well: (I play Nids and just recently started mech BA)

Defilers. IG shoot you too much you say? Well beat them at their own game. I've seen 3 Defilers rain down pie plates just like my old IG army used to. Give them TLLC too and make them feel your pain.

Nurgle bikers. T6 against small arms. Take a large enough squad and put two melta guns in them...go flat out until they are within melta range...bye bye IG armor, and any armor for that matter.

As was said, run 2 Lash princes. Genestealers in your flank? Cast Lashes and charge them.

Plague marines are amazing objective holders.

Thousand sons ruin my Marines day if I don't focus on taking them out ASAP.

Deep striking Lesser Demons are fun if you want to spend the points. Good answer to Long Fangs/Devs and can tarpit lots of stuff for 1-2 turns.

Abaddon. Just don't roll a one

Mech up everything you can. Even a cheap Rhino with extra armor or possessed hulll (whatever its called) will increase the survivability of you squads against everything.

Obliterators were always wasteful one hit wonders in my opinion. Sure they DS and kill a tank, but next turn they will be focused and destroyed. At something like 80 points a model or whatever they aren't worth it. At least I always had no problem dealing with them. YMMV.

I really can't stress enough your Demon Princes. Wings and Lash are gnarly.

Outflanking Chosen with full meltas or whatever can be devastating, so I hear. My roommate recently converted 2 squads each carrying 4 meltas. Personally I'm not worried about them. He's been ranting and raving about how my Mech will be facerolled next time we play. Its too easy to avoid the board edges and shoot them once they come on. But again, they can be devastating.

In conclusion, Lash princes.

He had my daemon prince based with three units so I'd have to pass a test for three different scarabs every players turn. I've since learned to assault his units with the daemon prince and something else so I stand a good chance of not having to roll but it is still a very scary thing. I do have one prince and a defiler on the way, I've been wanting to pick up bikes too. Thanks for the tips people.

IMO run at least 2 defilers. AV 12 is a little easy for most armies to pop. Redundancy is the key with Defilers. 2 Battlecannons a turn from 48" away can be tough to deal with especially with 2 Demon princes breathing down your throat and a squad of nurgle bikers closing in on your flanks. Oh and then there is the rhino of Thousand Sons to deal with before they get in range.

I often time agonize over target priority against well built CSM lists.

CSM, more than regular SM, are all about taking highly specialized units. Its a tough army to play even though their codex has, in my opinion, aged well with the newer codices.

The best advice anyone can give you is this: The more you play, regardless of wins or losses, the better you will get at playing CSM. It is inevitable. You'll learn the absolute best ways to employ each unit in the codex and eventually it will become second nature. That being said, proxy every unit that remotely tickles your interest and see how they perform. The old Trial and Error will always teach you something new!

the2ndredbaron wrote:He had my daemon prince based with three units so I'd have to pass a test for three different scarabs every players turn. I've since learned to assault his units with the daemon prince and something else so I stand a good chance of not having to roll but it is still a very scary thing. I do have one prince and a defiler on the way, I've been wanting to pick up bikes too. Thanks for the tips people.

With wings, your princes are very mobile. You should be able to make sure he does not assault your princes. Mind scarabs will not work on dreads, because they are vehicles and thus do not check for leadership. So, keep the princes out of the way of the mindshackles and let them assault dreads or zerkers. Even if 1-2 zerkers fail each turn, no big deal - all but the skull champ do not have PW. Then you can counter-charge with princes and pick your targets correctly. Alternatively, move the princes to other targets, e.g. vehicles, if they have wings but no lashes. If they have lashes, arrange the unit in the best way to have it be charged by your zerkers and princes.

By the way, mobility is why I think wings are mandatory on princes.

Speaking generally...
Chaos has very solid troops, and both Daemon Princes and Sorcerers are very useful and deadly HQs.
Chaos has terrible Fast Attack units (Raptors or Bikes can arguably be used well, but are overpriced).
Chaos Elites are pretty good, but because all of your units tend to be on the pricey side, you need to keep the costs down here to afford enough Troops.
You almost always want several Rhinos to get your squads where they need to go.
You almost always want to get a bunch of melta weapons into your troop squads, because antitank shooting is otherwise limited in the army.
Heavy Support is pretty much your only source of ranged antitank, and they're pretty much all good options, though our land raiders are not nearly as good as loyalist ones, so they're not very popular.

More specifically, here are links to some army list threads, where I helped some folks with their lists:

1850 Death Guard list & discussion:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330792.page#2172661

2000 mixed-powers list rebuild & discussion:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330496.page#2174192

1500 Khorne & unmarked mix with terminators:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330555.page

2000pt mixed-powers:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/329707.page#2151569

1500 Khorne themed (with Lash/nurgle Princes, but Khorne prince option in discussion):
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330800.page#2170656

1500 Iron Warriors mech army with comments:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330892.page#2172356

1500 Rhino rush with Chosen:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/330510.page#2166512