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Sisters probably shouldn't have a 3+ save and be able to wield bolters as effectively as Space Marines to begin with.

They should probably stick more to the 'Cleanse and Burn" theme...

But at this point, I've no idea where GW is going to take them!

Nothing would surprise me, including even binning them!

You can express your own opinion, but saying "I think..." or "In my opinion..." in front of your sentences would make you sound a bit less like Enunciator Of Truth (tm).

Hmm. Hospitallers are a non-militant order with no minis representing them. I think that says a lot about what they were designed to represent.

Melissia wrote:
Yes, kinda like this.

The Sisters had a codex with the Knights Templar/Crusading Knights feel two full editions before the Black Templars ever had a codex period

Maybe this is why Sisters have seen a design shift, BT fill the old aesthetic and sisters get a new one?

I don't think their armour is totally out of the question when you look at the armour of say Eldar Banshees. Skin tight but made from a hard material.

Has anyone posted this illustration yet?



This is the defining image of SoBs according to the official original codex painted by one of GW's most 'core' artists.

We see; SM domina high heel boots, skin-tight leggings, a strap on the left thigh highly suggestive of a suspender (not sure what Americans call them but they hold a woman's stocking up), perky boobs capped with individual skull breastplates, a torso armour very reminiscent of a whalebone corset, and a pose which confronts the viewer with the implication of a thrust forward crotch concealed behind a light drapery similar to a very heavily split skirt.

This is the kind of imagery of which I believe Melissia disapproves.

Kilkrazy wrote:Has anyone posted this illustration yet?

Yes. It has been done to death.

pretre wrote:Hmm. Hospitallers are a non-militant order with no minis representing them. I think that says a lot about what they were designed to represent.

They have a miniature (and rules) to represent them.

This picture, top right. It's not a very good model, mind you, but it's still there.

Geeze I'm making lots of typos today.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Witzkatz wrote:You can express your own opinion, but saying "I think..." or "In my opinion..." in front of your sentences would make you sound a bit less like Enunciator Of Truth (tm).

I am a poster on a forum on the internet.

That my posts are my opinions should go without saying.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:This is the kind of imagery of which I believe Melissia disapproves.

Indubitably, you are correct.

Alpharius wrote:Sisters probably shouldn't have a 3+ save and be able to wield bolters as effectively as Space Marines to begin with.

They should probably stick more to the 'Cleanse and Burn" theme...

This ones on to something.

Medium of Death wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Sisters probably shouldn't have a 3+ save and be able to wield bolters as effectively as Space Marines to begin with.

They should probably stick more to the 'Cleanse and Burn" theme...

This ones on to something.

Other non-marine models in Power Armor have a 3+ SV. Why shouldn't sisters (issues of what exactly that power armor is stylized to look like aside)?

Chongara wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Sisters probably shouldn't have a 3+ save and be able to wield bolters as effectively as Space Marines to begin with.

They should probably stick more to the 'Cleanse and Burn" theme...

This ones on to something.

Other non-marine models in Power Armor have a 3+ SV. Why shouldn't sisters (issues of what exactly that power armor is stylized to look like aside)?

Within the Imperium?

Medium of Death wrote:

Chongara wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Sisters probably shouldn't have a 3+ save and be able to wield bolters as effectively as Space Marines to begin with.

They should probably stick more to the 'Cleanse and Burn" theme...

This ones on to something.

Other non-marine models in Power Armor have a 3+ SV. Why shouldn't sisters (issues of what exactly that power armor is stylized to look like aside)?

Within the Imperium?

Yes. I don't have the codex in front of me, but can't certain special IG models take power armor (was it the Tech Priests?). I think inquisitors can take Power Armor for a 3+.

Also other sources such as Dark Heresy show that most models of power armor (Civilian, Marine and otherwise) have similar raw protective power (Compare DW stats to those in DH & Ascension) the difference is in the bells & whistles which marines have much more of.


Even if Sisters power armor wasn't "Quite" a 3+, it's certainly closer to the 3+ of marine armor than the 4+ of carapace. There is only so much granularity on you can get on a d6 system after all.

Medium of Death wrote:Within the Imperium?

Are tech-priests and inquisitors within the Imperium?

I wonder if tech-priests have discussions about how disgustingly 'mechanicy' some other priests make the armor. "Who goes to battle wearing her wires on the outside?" "What genius thought to emphasize the gears in that armor?"

Chongara wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:

Chongara wrote:

Medium of Death wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Sisters probably shouldn't have a 3+ save and be able to wield bolters as effectively as Space Marines to begin with.

They should probably stick more to the 'Cleanse and Burn" theme...

This ones on to something.

Other non-marine models in Power Armor have a 3+ SV. Why shouldn't sisters (issues of what exactly that power armor is stylized to look like aside)?

Within the Imperium?

Yes. I don't have the codex in front of me, but can't certain special IG models take power armor (was it the Tech Priests?). I think inquisitors can take Power Armor for a 3+.

Also other sources such as Dark Heresy show that most models of power armor (Civilian, Marine and otherwise) have similar raw protective power (Compare DW stats to those in DH & Ascension) the difference is in the bells & whistles which marines have much more of.


Even if Sisters power armor wasn't "Quite" a 3+, it's certainly closer to the 3+ of marine armor than the 4+ of carapace.

Tech Priests don't really count as they are decked out with techno-gubbinz. I'll grab my guard codex... (grabs codex... skims to the back...)
Just the Tech Priest, well and Straken... but that goes without saying.

This thread's about the aesthetics of the armor, not the stats.

Techpriests wear their own unique kind of power armor, as detailed within Dark Heresy: The Inquisitor's Handbook. It provides protection just shy of Astartes power armor, but is much lighter and more nimble. Said power armor is linked directly to a Techpriest's mind via the various implants put into an ordained Techpriest.

Anyway, back at least remotely on topic.

There's no biological need for the shape of the breastplate to be changed to match the shape of the breasts.

As shown here. That's not to say that it shouldn't be present, only that the argument of a biological need for such is unnecessary. It's actually healthier for the females and their breasts to tape them close to the body and prevent movement during strenuous activity (such as fighting) anyway, and even the largest breasts can be condensed to be far smaller than that (and such breasts are unlikely-- not impossible-- in athletic females).

The presence of such secondary sexual characteristics in the armor is thus purely aesthetic. My preference would go to a single curved bulge, or at least a tabard over the current design that gives homage to the Sisters' crusader knights inspiration. The former would retain the secondary sexual characteristics while giving a better armored "feel" on the model.


Here's another example of a breastplate that could be adopted into a Sororitas plate. Mind you, it's anime again, but then sadly I've not found that many examples outside of anime that show intelligently designed female breastplates, so meh.

Do we really need to say "Personally..." and "In my opinion..." in front of things we post? Aren't these Truths Self Evident?

Anyway...

I think it help further differentiate the SoB army if it would move away from things like 3+ saves and bolters as standard weapons.

Their armor doesn't, as currently designed, 'look' like 3+, as wishy-washy as that sounds.

And regular humans shouldn't be able to use bolters as effectively as a Marine.

The Deathwatch RPG does something along these lines in that Marines can use weapons as one class 'lighter' (forgive me here as I'm an RPG novice for FFG stuff!) then they actually are.

Humans can use bolters very well in the Dark Heresy setting. In fact, by the time a Sister gets to the xp level that a deathwatch Astartes starts at (the Deathwatch are supposed to represent veterans after all), they probably have a higher BS than the Astartes, a wider variety of skills and talents, and a wider base of knowledge (lores).

Alpharius wrote:Nothing would surprise me, including even binning them!

Every time someone posts this sort of thing, a warp entity kills a puppy. (Obviously, just quoting it doesn't count.)

I must say, I find it rather amusing that in a fictional universe where heavily armoured Vikings and their wolf friends can smash tanks with hammers, Rambo and his pals get to run around shirtless cutting aliens with machetes and flying pretty boys with six packs carved into their "I can survive ten rocket-launcher shots" armour kill entire armies, one can make such a big deal out of the SOB ugly female armour. Sure it doesn't make sense and looks ridicules but no one’s complaining about Chaos hanging a ton of skulls on their armour and Blood Angels having six-pack shaped super model armour (their armour always cracks me up xD)
If woman are offended by the skin-tight bosom armour because it’s sexist, can’t we say that the image of men covered in skulls with enormous muscles is just as stereotypical? We could but we don’t cause wh40k is either about uber-soldier stereotype heroes (I guess that includes muscular manly-men and “hot” chicks) going nuts, or if you’re not that into that just like me, poor soldiers in rather realistic armour getting their asses kicked by aliens. If you prefer the latter, just play IG and everyone’s happy
PS: I’m pretty sure there are games with a lot more “sexist”/female stereotyping ideas then wh40k… I guess everybody who has played a “Dead or Alive” game knows what I’m talking about xD

Melissia wrote:
Here's another example of a breastplate that could be adopted into a Sororitas plate. Mind you, it's anime again, but then sadly I've not found that many examples outside of anime that show intelligently designed female breastplates, so meh.

It's very hard to find, other than the couple of magic cards I linked earlier in the thread i can't think of any off the top of my head. I know you can find some in this thread and it's predecessor linked in the first post, if you really dig around in it. Even then they're fairly few/far between.

Melissia wrote:Humans can use bolters very well in the Dark Heresy setting. In fact, by the time a Sister gets to the xp level that a deathwatch Astartes starts at (the Deathwatch are supposed to represent veterans after all), they probably have a higher BS than the Astartes, a wider variety of skills and talents, and a wider base of knowledge (lores).

Fantastic!

I'm just saying that they shouldn't be able to, and that there shouldn't be yet another army out there with a 3+ save and the bolter as their primary weapon.

Anyway, GW has a reason for developing, marketing and selling Sisters, but it is a rather reed thin one at that.

Alpharius wrote:
Fantastic!

I'm just saying that they shouldn't be able to, and that there shouldn't be yet another army out there with a 3+ save and the bolter as their primary weapon.

Anyway, GW has a reason for developing, marketing and selling Sisters, but it is a rather reed thin one at that.

I lol'd.

Continuing your point, there isn't a 4+ save Imperial army yet, is there? Hmm. I'm thinking 3+ is too sacred cow to change, but I think with a full rework, 4+ wouldn't be so bad. Points changes and refocus on what really works without making them Femmarines.

Of course less armor save might encourage less 'coverage'.

I just thought I'd have some fun and sketch up my own little concept. Not trying to make everyone happy, but I kinda like it, and I think it's considerably less..."sexy," I guess. Still too form-fitting for all you naysayers out there?



I threw in a few aspects I liked from the hospitaller model.

The original's shaded a bit better, but the scanner here didn't pick it up that well. Might scan it in better once I get home. Maybe not, who's to tell.

Aaaaaaaanyway.

pretre wrote:there isn't a 4+ save Imperial army yet, is there?

Imperial Guard.

Melissia wrote:

pretre wrote:there isn't a 4+ save Imperial army yet, is there?

Imperial Guard.

Guard's 5+ with some 4+ (Vets and ST).

Under your reasoning, SM is 4+ because they have scouts.

Aw, don't take their power armor away! Or rewrite them to have shoddy power armor. That's killing what they really are at heart. Space Marines have two hearts, three lungs, etc etc etc under their power armor but sisters are just regular women underneath it all. And they have the guts to stand toe-to-toe with Marines. The power armor is the fulcrum in this comparison.

Make 'em as sexy as possible! WTF?!? We have to make 40k politically correct? That's BS!

Zefig wrote:I just thought I'd have some fun and sketch up my own little concept. Not trying to make everyone happy, but I kinda like it, and I think it's considerably less..."sexy," I guess. Still too form-fitting for all you naysayers out there?
Aaaaaaaanyway.

Too sexy. I see a belt holding up the hip armor. On a feminine model, that could be considered a garter belt. Also, I'm sure that the pelvic plate will be called an 'armored bikini' and will be too sexy.

Zefig wrote:I just thought I'd have some fun and sketch up my own little concept. Not trying to make everyone happy, but I kinda like it, and I think it's considerably less..."sexy," I guess. Still too form-fitting for all you naysayers out there?



I threw in a few aspects I liked from the hospitaller model.

The original's shaded a bit better, but the scanner here didn't pick it up that well. Might scan it in better once I get home. Maybe not, who's to tell.

Aaaaaaaanyway.

The unarmored sections of the suit feel a bit on the baggy side to me, but other than that I like. I'd be willing to spend money on models with armor roughly designed like that.

EDIT: Unarmoed sections of the armor. That made no sense.

EDIT(Again): Post below me hit on it. The cloth sections need to have some indication there is power armor underneath it, that is what was throwing me off.

That drawing is fantastic. But I'd argue that it really looks more like 4+ carapace armor than 3+ power armor - which is not bad, I like this design.

I like that picture.

pretre wrote:Under your reasoning, SM is 4+ because they have scouts.

Of course not.

You can have an entire IG army with ONLY 4+ saves, including two HQ choices, an elites choice, and a troops choice. In contrast, you can only have a single type of SM unit which has 4+ saves. Both, of course, have plenty of vehicle support.