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Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Gates of Antares... Maelstrom Edge... those are the company level Wargames I can think of that are sci-fi and obviously not 40k.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

I actually like a bunch of stuff in FFGs rules, no reason it can't be modified into something else, especially since they're pulling from a bunch of other miniature games' rules already.

   
Made in at
Privateer




Austria

No reason not to use the free FFG rules and print cards on your own (or just don't use them) if you just want to play the models

Than there are a lot free SciFi rules out there, from old stuff like Stargrunt Ii, to very new like Warpath

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in de
Wicked Warp Spider




Berlin

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I'm curious, what alternate rulesets are you using?
I don't like the typical counter heavy over design of FFG games. I found Imperial Assault to be confusing.


LOL, while I play IA I have to agree FFG has a tendency to include way too much marker.

A nice generic SF ruleset for platoon level (20+ minis per side and a couple of vehicles) is my own
Victory Decision: Future Combat: http://agisn.de/html/future_combat_vide.html


OK - I am biased here, but maybe read the description and reviews and judge for yourself.
Under the design notes I have sketched up some example units to give a feel what is possible.
http://agisn.de/html/fuco_design_notes.html

cheers and keep on gaming, Agis - http://www.adpublishing.de

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 Kalamadea wrote:
I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Just order thicker acrylic bases, then. This isn't rocket science.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for rules, I'd consider Blasters and Bulkheads. It's a generic set of sci-fi skirmish rules, but it's clear that they're designed to be Star Wars with the serial numbers filed off. You can have heroes and units of 5-10 grunts, so the unit packs available for Legion and Imperial Assault are ideal, and it should handle up to a platoon or so per side (or half a dozen heroes) with no issues . I've been using the old WotC prepainted models.

I wouldn't want to field too many large vehicles, but one or two AT-ST or snowspeeders should be OK.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 09:00:09


 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
I still may be able to sneak in some of my WotC stuff if I rebase everything on GW bases. People on the Facebook group have been split on the bases, a lot of people want to use clear acrylic and there's a number of companies already producing them, but the game is True LoS and some people are taking that to the point of if you can see Vader's lightsaber tip you have LoS to Vader, so if you use anything besides the official FFG bases then you can't use your figs in any organized play because that extra 2mm of height changes their profile. It's the whole "kneeling wrathlords" issue form 3rd edition all over again, I fething despise True LoS systems

I'll know soon enough, got my shipping notice this morning


Just order thicker acrylic bases, then. This isn't rocket science.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for rules, I'd consider Blasters and Bulkheads. It's a generic set of sci-fi skirmish rules, but it's clear that they're designed to be Star Wars with the serial numbers filed off. You can have heroes and units of 5-10 grunts, so the unit packs available for Legion and Imperial Assault are ideal, and it should handle up to a platoon or so per side (or half a dozen heroes) with no issues . I've been using the old WotC prepainted models.

I wouldn't want to field too many large vehicles, but one or two AT-ST or snowspeeders should be OK.


Ooooh, that looks ideal. Not having loads of vehicles is fine as far as I'm concerned, the expansion of 40K in recent years has amply demonstrated what a bad idea pushing multiple large vehicles in this scale is.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Plus, it's only a tenner for the PDF. Every character is designed by the player(s), although there's a sample pirate band in the back of the rules. Looks like it'd do well for Firefly, Guardians of the Galaxy (well, maybe not Ego) and settings like that, too.

http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=1193&pics=2
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

I plan on picking up a starter and some trooper boxes so I can play Rampant Stars!

http://www.wargamevault.com/product/209268/Rampant-Stars?src=newest_recent


I have used the rules to play Star Wars before with Micro Machines when they made infantry packs. Memories!

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/04/rampant-stars-battle-report-star-wars.html



However, if you want to get really crazy you could use the old Star Wars Miniature Battles rules from West End Games. I plan to do this as well! The rules won Best Wargames Rules at Origins..... in 1991!

Here is my review: http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2018/02/review-star-wars-miniature-battles-west.html



I mean, once you have the models, you can go hog wild with all sorts of rules systems! That is my plan. Get some basic troopers and units and go to town in the Star Wars Universe!

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2017/04/tomorrows-war-battle-report-star-wars.html




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/22 13:35:39


Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






My entire group is pretty much of the same opinion: Get the minis, drop the rules.

If I'm honest, I think even FFG knows this - may have even planned on it. By using their usual "TONS OF ADDITIONAL CRAP" game model...they can justify the increased cost of the miniatures, knowing full well the cards and tokens are being tossed in a box by 60-70% of the people who are going to buy into these models.

FFG makes more money selling less plastic. It's not a bad plan.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I kind of understand trying to play the rules with other minis. I'm not really grasping the logic for the other way around.
   
Made in at
Privateer




Austria

Popular games with good minis often have bad rules, while good rules came very often without miniature support.

In historical gaming, having rules and minis separate is normal
in Fantasy gaming this is complete unusual
and in SciFi gaming it is 50:50 depending if you go more fantasy in Space or real SciFi.

for real SciFi or modern/future combat there are much more good rules out there than miniatures
so a new range of human soldiers is first of all interesting for those games without models

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 LunarSol wrote:
I kind of understand trying to play the rules with other minis. I'm not really grasping the logic for the other way around.


Because the minis are good and the rules aren't to our taste. Or rather, the business model surrounding them isn't - I want to buy, build, and paint a modest thematic Star Wars force that I can use in games. If I want to do that specifically to play Legion, I also have to buy extra superfluous models maybe even for factions I don't even intend to collect just to get the cards, not to mention the overpriced extra play-aids and dice and tokens and blah blah blah. Given how rarely I'm likely to get a chance to play with them regardless of which system I use, I might as well use a system that isn't designed from the ground up to be an unnecessarily massive cash vampire.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Precisely.

FFG games, while "okay" are laden with special dice, special markers, special friggin' movement sticks, and heinously designed "card gotchas" etc. Basically, like many systems, the game is too heavily tied into sales/etc. There are dozens of applicable sci-fi rule sets out there for reasonable cost which have none of that. It sounds like my group is considering everything from Victory Decision, Rogue Stars, Tomorrow's War, to Osprey's Black Ops, Stargrunt II, and blasters and bulkheads...so who knows where we'll end up.

A lot of these games are simply rulebooks with zero need to buy specific miniatures, etc. They're not tied into a money-grab kind of build style for selling the game. So we get the minis, ditch the FFG parts and play a more enjoyable game. (Heck, I'm planning on eBaying off the extra bits to get some money back).

All companies which sell rules and models to support them eventually fall into this kind of thing. It's not a crime, but it ends up making pretty poor rules sets if the companies get too big.

 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

I’d certainly like to try the new rules out by FFG, but I do already have a ton of WotC minis, some West End metals and even the old micro machine figures - and the action fleet models if I want to incorporate some vehicles as well (including a RotJ AT-ST 1/4 model I bought last week). Heck, if I really felt like abusing myself, I can open the 3.5 figures I collected ages ago and have a go at it.

I’m not going to let myself be bound either to specific models or rules. My biggest challenge is both finding someone to play and, should I grab FFG’s official stuff, piling more minis into the mountain of shame I need to get painted.

For now, planning to try a couple games with the PDF rules and self-printed cards. If I like what I see, I’ll add it to the pile. If not, I don’t have to set yet another Star Wars game on the shelf alongside the WotC game and the old WEG mini game I’ve already got collecting dust.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Napoleonics Obsesser




MN

You can still play WEG and WOTC if you want. You have everything you need!

Do you like Free Wargames?
http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord






Heck, I have the WEG books on PDF...never really looked at them, but I will now. Good point! (it's probably awful!)

 
   
Made in us
VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

 Elbows wrote:
Heck, I have the WEG books on PDF...never really looked at them, but I will now. Good point! (it's probably awful!)


The WEG rules aren’t bad, but they have some clunky features back from 90’s gaming. Drop a wonky rule or two (such as firing arcs on infantry models), and it’d still be a playable game today. The WotC rules, not so much.

However, I’m just curious how well the Legion rules work - and it’d be easier to find local players, TBH.

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 LunarSol wrote:
I kind of understand trying to play the rules with other minis. I'm not really grasping the logic for the other way around.


I'm the opposite. Buying these miniatures to use with other rules is obvious - they're the only source of Star Wars miniatures at the moment, and they're pretty good, so lots of people will want them for whatever ruleset they already use. But I don't see many people wanting to use these rules in a non-Star Wars context. Buying the expansion packs for the cards and chucking away the miniatures is even more expensive than the other way round, and there's no stats for anything that isn't Star Wars.
   
Made in de
Wicked Warp Spider




Berlin

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Plus, it's only a tenner for the PDF. Every character is designed by the player(s), although there's a sample pirate band in the back of the rules. Looks like it'd do well for Firefly, Guardians of the Galaxy (well, maybe not Ego) and settings like that, too.

http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=1193&pics=2

I totally agree, Blasters and Bulkhead is a great! Got it too, however please bear in ind that it is basically a squad level skirmish (6+ minis per side) game, not platoon level like Legion.

cheers and keep on gaming, Agis - http://www.adpublishing.de

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Portland

The set my housemate pre-ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I took a look when I got home and was not impressed. I had really been looking forward to this since I actually like Armada, but the models are really poor. he plastic is sub-par, the details are super soft and mold lines are prevalent. My housemate had assembled the Imperial half of the box, so I didnt get to do that myself, but looking at the unassembled rebels it looks like the models do not have modular parts. You're stuck with the same poses in each set. The poses themselves are pretty bland as well. The models are bigger than the Imperial Assault models, but don't really look any better. They look like mediocre board game models.

I'm extremely disappointed. If you were planning on buying this game for the models I'd really recommend staying away.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Chicagoland

New Han and more rebels commandos.

[Thumb - IMG_1991.JPG]

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Chicagoland

Han, they gave out the star cards also.
[Thumb - IMG_1993.JPG]

[Thumb - IMG_1996.JPG]

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Good on FFG for previewing these models in Australia.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





oloS uaH is my favorite Star Wars character. Don't care for that sopuawwoC leqeY though.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Hey, he actually has his blaster in those unlike in posters for the upcoming Solo movie!

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/han-solo-film-poster-removes-guns.54500/

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Han didn't just not shoot first, he didn't shoot at all. Future versions of Star Wars will involve Han Solo getting into a tickle fight with Greedo.
   
Made in us
Captain





LA

 jake wrote:
The set my housemate pre-ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I took a look when I got home and was not impressed. I had really been looking forward to this since I actually like Armada, but the models are really poor. he plastic is sub-par, the details are super soft and mold lines are prevalent. My housemate had assembled the Imperial half of the box, so I didnt get to do that myself, but looking at the unassembled rebels it looks like the models do not have modular parts. You're stuck with the same poses in each set. The poses themselves are pretty bland as well. The models are bigger than the Imperial Assault models, but don't really look any better. They look like mediocre board game models.

I'm extremely disappointed. If you were planning on buying this game for the models I'd really recommend staying away.


Well if you're used to stuff like GW it makes these models seem more toy-like. They seem to be made of an almost pvc/abs type plastic. I haven't had issues cleaning the mold lines but they seem to vary. IMO these are definitely ahead of the IA models, but similar in detail to bolt action minis except Legion is more like an easy to build style. In a way you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most, so is the quality. As Sorastros painting guides have shown these models can still look really good with a little bit of effort. It's been basically common knowlege that the game was going to have duplicate sculpts it's been a known thing since last year.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Custodes Shield Captain





Where ever the Emperor needs his eyes

So if the Rebels are getting Han and Commandos, what for the Imperials?

Director Krennic and Death Troopers?
General Mohc and Dark Troopers?
Thrawn and Death Troopers?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






 AAN wrote:
 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Plus, it's only a tenner for the PDF. Every character is designed by the player(s), although there's a sample pirate band in the back of the rules. Looks like it'd do well for Firefly, Guardians of the Galaxy (well, maybe not Ego) and settings like that, too.

http://www.wargamedownloads.com/item.php?item=1193&pics=2

I totally agree, Blasters and Bulkhead is a great! Got it too, however please bear in ind that it is basically a squad level skirmish (6+ minis per side) game, not platoon level like Legion.

Six units of five Stgormtroopers each plus an officer is a platoon. The core box for Legion contains troopers, a leader and a light vehicle for each side - well within the capabilities of Blasters and Bulkheads.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Portland

 Thargrim wrote:
 jake wrote:
The set my housemate pre-ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I took a look when I got home and was not impressed. I had really been looking forward to this since I actually like Armada, but the models are really poor. he plastic is sub-par, the details are super soft and mold lines are prevalent. My housemate had assembled the Imperial half of the box, so I didnt get to do that myself, but looking at the unassembled rebels it looks like the models do not have modular parts. You're stuck with the same poses in each set. The poses themselves are pretty bland as well. The models are bigger than the Imperial Assault models, but don't really look any better. They look like mediocre board game models.

I'm extremely disappointed. If you were planning on buying this game for the models I'd really recommend staying away.


Well if you're used to stuff like GW it makes these models seem more toy-like. They seem to be made of an almost pvc/abs type plastic. I haven't had issues cleaning the mold lines but they seem to vary. IMO these are definitely ahead of the IA models, but similar in detail to bolt action minis except Legion is more like an easy to build style. In a way you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most, so is the quality. As Sorastros painting guides have shown these models can still look really good with a little bit of effort. It's been basically common knowlege that the game was going to have duplicate sculpts it's been a known thing since last year.


These models aren't just not up to GW standards, they're well below any other game I've bought in the last few years (although certainly not the worst I've ever seen). I was satisfied with the quality of the starter boxes for Beyond the Gates of Antares and Wrath of Kings, but this set is of lesser quality than both.

And while we knew that there would be duplicate sculpts, I did not expect the models to be basically monopose. I was hoping that the arms would be interchangable, or at least the heads could be turned. Sadly thats not the case. Without significant conversion you're stuck with the exact same 7 models in each set. There are no extra parts or accessories for infantry either. No way to customize the models at all.

I also don't buy into the "you get what you pay for, these models are a lot cheaper than most" argument. These models aren't really cheaper than a lot of the better options out there and I feel like $25 for 7 low quality plastic models isn't actually a great gaming deal. Or at leats not a good enough excuse for low quality.

I haven't had a chance to clean the mold lines yet, so they may not be a big issue at all. I'm assembling the rebels tonight , so I'll see what I think of them, I guess.

Right now I'm really regretting the purchase. Maybe the game play will blow me away, but as someone who mostly plays games for the models I'm hugely disappointed. And since a LOT of people here are saying that they're ONLY buying the game for the models I thought it would be a good idea to share my opinion. If you don't really care about good looking models and are okay with mediocre board game quality or are more interested in the game play than you may not have a problem with these. In which case I imagine you'll be able to pick up a lot of them on ebay for very cheap very soon.

EDIT: I've now assembled the Rebel half of the box. While the quality isn't any better,the Rebels do (in my opinion) have better poses, and the folds and straps of their clothing make for more interesting detail that relies less on crispness than the Stromtrooper's flat armor. I'm still disapointed in the models, but I think the Rebels are definitely better than the Imperials.

Mold line are pretty prevalent (at least in my set), but they are very easy to clean away, so thats a plus.

The walker and Speederbikes are the best part of the set. The soft details matter less for these models, and they're both pleasingly large. So thats nice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/24 06:24:22


 
   
 
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