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Erads 145 points 8 shots limited to 1 target. One tank commander dead. Resilience T5 x 3 x 3W
Devs 175 points 8 shots over 2 (lets say 225 point tank commander) targets, followed by TWO MORE shots to pick off a wounded tank or even both. I think the ability to easily strech to a second vital target is worth the few points difference. A hot rolling Dev squad might even kill two tank commanders and have 2 melta hits left to plow into a manticore or a third, which is a feat that I think even 4 eradicators (Same price) could never accomplish in one salvo. Resilience, ... ah, who am I kidding. but they can kill TWO tanks, before return fire shreds either squad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/11 23:59:35


Guard gaurd gAAAARDity Gaurd gaurd.  
   
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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Dukeofstuff wrote:
Erads 145 points 8 shots limited to 1 target. One tank commander dead. Resilience T5 x 3 x 3W
Devs 175 points 8 shots over 2 (lets say 225 point tank commander) targets, followed by TWO MORE shots to pick off a wounded tank or even both. I think the ability to easily strech to a second vital target is worth the few points difference. A hot rolling Dev squad might even kill two tank commanders and have 2 melta hits left to plow into a manticore or a third, which is a feat that I think even 4 eradicators (Same price) could never accomplish in one salvo. Resilience, ... ah, who am I kidding. but they can kill TWO tanks, before return fire shreds either squad.
It takes four unsaved Melta wounds, on average, to kill a Tank Commander, unless you get into Melta Range.

That'll happen a whole .02% of the time, without buffs.
But then again, Marines. I'll assume a Captain and Lieutenant.

That multiples the odds of killing two tanks with 8 shots by a whopping factor of nine, but still is less than 1/5th of a percent.

Also, quick math on the odds of Xd6 killing a Leman Russ:
4d6: .7608
3d6: .3750
2d6: .0278
1d6: 0

So, splitting your Devs to two and two into each Leman Russ gets you...

(.6151*.0278)+(.2465*.3750)+(.0424*.7608)=.1418

Each Leman Russ has a 14% chance of getting destroyed. Multiplied together, you get the more accurate number of about 2% chance of killing two Leman Russes with that Dev squad.

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 JNAProductions wrote:
Dukeofstuff wrote:
Erads 145 points 8 shots limited to 1 target. One tank commander dead. Resilience T5 x 3 x 3W
Devs 175 points 8 shots over 2 (lets say 225 point tank commander) targets, followed by TWO MORE shots to pick off a wounded tank or even both. I think the ability to easily strech to a second vital target is worth the few points difference. A hot rolling Dev squad might even kill two tank commanders and have 2 melta hits left to plow into a manticore or a third, which is a feat that I think even 4 eradicators (Same price) could never accomplish in one salvo. Resilience, ... ah, who am I kidding. but they can kill TWO tanks, before return fire shreds either squad.
It takes four unsaved Melta wounds, on average, to kill a Tank Commander, unless you get into Melta Range.

That'll happen a whole .02% of the time, without buffs.
But then again, Marines. I'll assume a Captain and Lieutenant.

That multiples the odds of killing two tanks with 8 shots by a whopping factor of nine, but still is less than 1/5th of a percent.

Also, quick math on the odds of Xd6 killing a Leman Russ:
4d6: .7608
3d6: .3750
2d6: .0278
1d6: 0

So, splitting your Devs to two and two into each Leman Russ gets you...

(.6151*.0278)+(.2465*.3750)+(.0424*.7608)=.1418

Each Leman Russ has a 14% chance of getting destroyed. Multiplied together, you get the more accurate number of about 2% chance of killing two Leman Russes with that Dev squad.


I don't know all the marine strats or abilities, but don't devs get a re-roll of some sort from the Cherub? or is that just a one use thing for something else?
   
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In My Lab

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Dukeofstuff wrote:
Erads 145 points 8 shots limited to 1 target. One tank commander dead. Resilience T5 x 3 x 3W
Devs 175 points 8 shots over 2 (lets say 225 point tank commander) targets, followed by TWO MORE shots to pick off a wounded tank or even both. I think the ability to easily strech to a second vital target is worth the few points difference. A hot rolling Dev squad might even kill two tank commanders and have 2 melta hits left to plow into a manticore or a third, which is a feat that I think even 4 eradicators (Same price) could never accomplish in one salvo. Resilience, ... ah, who am I kidding. but they can kill TWO tanks, before return fire shreds either squad.
It takes four unsaved Melta wounds, on average, to kill a Tank Commander, unless you get into Melta Range.

That'll happen a whole .02% of the time, without buffs.
But then again, Marines. I'll assume a Captain and Lieutenant.

That multiples the odds of killing two tanks with 8 shots by a whopping factor of nine, but still is less than 1/5th of a percent.

Also, quick math on the odds of Xd6 killing a Leman Russ:
4d6: .7608
3d6: .3750
2d6: .0278
1d6: 0

So, splitting your Devs to two and two into each Leman Russ gets you...

(.6151*.0278)+(.2465*.3750)+(.0424*.7608)=.1418

Each Leman Russ has a 14% chance of getting destroyed. Multiplied together, you get the more accurate number of about 2% chance of killing two Leman Russes with that Dev squad.


I don't know all the marine strats or abilities, but don't devs get a re-roll of some sort from the Cherub? or is that just a one use thing for something else?
Cherub lets you double-tap with a single gun. But considering that Duke was talking about using the Cherub to target an additional tank...

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 Insectum7 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Spoletta wrote:Yeah, the AV system was good for its narrative value, but in terms of gameplay it had its limits. Sure, one could devise an improved system, but the same is true for the current one.


Here's my take: an front/side/rear armor value system is essentially unnecessary to have in a wargame above fireteam scale. Mechanically, it was essentially irrelevant unless a special rule called for hits to automatically hit the rear of a vehicle: the board area of a vehicle's rear arc was so small and moving to get into it from the front was essentially impossible, so like it didn't matter.

As for simulationist purpose it can be safely assume that much like how we assume that an infantryman is in fact sufficiently capable to take care of their own facing, a commander at company scale wouldn't concern themself with exactly how the tanks under her/his command are oriented. If one doesn't include different facing armors for vehicles, it can be safely assumed that the vehicle crews are a minimum level of competence to point the front towards the enemy. Even then, front armor and side armor are both usually pretty good, particularly since impacts on the side arc will usually be at a high angle of incidence, so it doesn't really need a layer of mechanical rules from either a simulationist perspective or a gamist perspective.
Gotta strongly disagree. My Drop Pods in particular found their way on the flanks and occasionally the rear armor of many a vehicle. As well as my units that assaulted them in CQB.

As for being concerned about their facing on a company level, vehicle facing was one of the few manifestations in the rules where outflanking opposing forces had a material effect upon the damage being inflicted. Striking opponents from multiple angles forced the exposure of weaker facings, and led to exploit. Assuming the competency of your vehicle crew is great and all, but being engaged from multiple angles is going to curtail the choices available by said crew. Imo facing still has its place in 40k.


This does not conform with my experience. It's not hard to make it so a drop pod or deep strike can't arrive in the rear of a vehicle if you care to prevent it. Like, the arc is 90 degrees wide, you can't get within 1" of enemy models, so even if the vehicle is sitting on the very front of the deploy area it's only exposing at most a trapezoidal shape of of 88 square inches. Each 25mm based infantry model screens 7 square inches of space from deep strike, so that requires only about a single squad of infantry to fully deny the area behind a tank to anything that isn't walking there, particularly when considering the average deep striker requires some space to arrive in.

Basically, a vehicle has to open itself up to be hit on the rear by legitimate maneuver and not by an override rule that ignores facing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dukeofstuff wrote:
Erads 145 points 8 shots limited to 1 target. One tank commander dead. Resilience T5 x 3 x 3W
Devs 175 points 8 shots over 2 (lets say 225 point tank commander) targets, followed by TWO MORE shots to pick off a wounded tank or even both. I think the ability to easily strech to a second vital target is worth the few points difference. A hot rolling Dev squad might even kill two tank commanders and have 2 melta hits left to plow into a manticore or a third, which is a feat that I think even 4 eradicators (Same price) could never accomplish in one salvo. Resilience, ... ah, who am I kidding. but they can kill TWO tanks, before return fire shreds either squad.


4 melta hits assesses 2 wounds to a T8 tank, for 4+2d6 [11] damage. 4 melta hits happens to be what a 3-man squad of 135 point erads can accomplish, or what a full 170 point squad of multimelta devs arriving from deep strike or walking can accomplish.

Even stationary, devs only assess one additional hit on average for that 35 point increase in cost.

It's worth keeping in mind that devastators are already good. Eradicators are just extraordinarily underpriced.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/12 00:41:02


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Spoletta wrote:Yeah, the AV system was good for its narrative value, but in terms of gameplay it had its limits. Sure, one could devise an improved system, but the same is true for the current one.


Here's my take: an front/side/rear armor value system is essentially unnecessary to have in a wargame above fireteam scale. Mechanically, it was essentially irrelevant unless a special rule called for hits to automatically hit the rear of a vehicle: the board area of a vehicle's rear arc was so small and moving to get into it from the front was essentially impossible, so like it didn't matter.

As for simulationist purpose it can be safely assume that much like how we assume that an infantryman is in fact sufficiently capable to take care of their own facing, a commander at company scale wouldn't concern themself with exactly how the tanks under her/his command are oriented. If one doesn't include different facing armors for vehicles, it can be safely assumed that the vehicle crews are a minimum level of competence to point the front towards the enemy. Even then, front armor and side armor are both usually pretty good, particularly since impacts on the side arc will usually be at a high angle of incidence, so it doesn't really need a layer of mechanical rules from either a simulationist perspective or a gamist perspective.
Gotta strongly disagree. My Drop Pods in particular found their way on the flanks and occasionally the rear armor of many a vehicle. As well as my units that assaulted them in CQB.

As for being concerned about their facing on a company level, vehicle facing was one of the few manifestations in the rules where outflanking opposing forces had a material effect upon the damage being inflicted. Striking opponents from multiple angles forced the exposure of weaker facings, and led to exploit. Assuming the competency of your vehicle crew is great and all, but being engaged from multiple angles is going to curtail the choices available by said crew. Imo facing still has its place in 40k.


This does not conform with my experience. It's not hard to make it so a drop pod or deep strike can't arrive in the rear of a vehicle if you care to prevent it. Like, the arc is 90 degrees wide, you can't get within 1" of enemy models, so even if the vehicle is sitting on the very front of the deploy area it's only exposing at most a trapezoidal shape of of 88 square inches. Each 25mm based infantry model screens 7 square inches of space from deep strike, so that requires only about a single squad of infantry to fully deny the area behind a tank to anything that isn't walking there, particularly when considering the average deep striker requires some space to arrive in.

Basically, a vehicle has to open itself up to be hit on the rear by legitimate maneuver and not by an override rule that ignores facing
Do Immolators just sit in te backfield? Flyers?

In my experience Guard are the primary faction that can afford to sit their tanks on the edge of the tabke for multiple turns while covering themselves with cheap infantry. And that still didn't stop countermaneuvering for shots against the side armor. Numerous factions have vehicles that need to close with the opponent for either weapons or transport purposes, and outflanking maneuvers could happen well beyond the deployment phase castle once forces have been depleted or moved towards objectives. There's been plenty of opportunity to hit side and rear locations on vehicles for me in the past, esp when tables were 6x4 standard and using diagonal or "long" deployment schemes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/12 01:30:06


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Can't Dev's turn 1 DS in drop pods within half melta range? Doesn't that end the argument?
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can't Dev's turn 1 DS in drop pods within half melta range? Doesn't that end the argument?
No, because you then need to add the Pod's points to their total.
And you need to account for the fact that they'll have moved on disembarkation, dropping their hits to 4+.
And the enemy player can easily screen you out of Melta range.

And Eradicators, for 150 points, can do 6 shots hitting on 4+ for 1d6+2 damage from 24" away. Or for 155, 4 shots of 1d6 and 4 shots of 1d6+2, all hitting on a 4+.

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 Unit1126PLL wrote:


One of 40k's major flaws is that the only way of interacting with a model is to kill it (or not kill it) meaning that models which cannot be killed also then cannot be meaningfully interacted with.

Therefore, having an army that is unkillable by another army is basically the same as having an army that doesn't interact
with the other army. That's bad for the game.


The problem is that the good armies in w40k more or less played solitaire everytime. And often combined high resiliance with good offensive options. Armies that just try to be tough, like 8th ed necron, don't work at all.

So asking for someones army to be able to do that is like asking for other people armies to be made worse.

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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
This does not conform with my experience. It's not hard to make it so a drop pod or deep strike can't arrive in the rear of a vehicle if you care to prevent it. Like, the arc is 90 degrees wide, you can't get within 1" of enemy models, so even if the vehicle is sitting on the very front of the deploy area it's only exposing at most a trapezoidal shape of of 88 square inches. Each 25mm based infantry model screens 7 square inches of space from deep strike, so that requires only about a single squad of infantry to fully deny the area behind a tank to anything that isn't walking there, particularly when considering the average deep striker requires some space to arrive in.

Basically, a vehicle has to open itself up to be hit on the rear by legitimate maneuver and not by an override rule that ignores facing.


I'm not sure how it played in 7th, but my experience in HH has been that my regular opponent often does exactly what you suggest, spreading out his infantry behind a tank. Then one round of Oops! All Mauler Cannons and suddenly the screen is gone and there's a perfect hole for my meltabomb Thallax to slot into. If they don't flub the deep strike. Again.

I find that play and counterplay fun; it makes the weak rear armor feel like something that you have to work at in order to exploit but is a strong advantage if you successfully do so. It's very hard to strike a perfect balance and I do agree that it leaned more towards being in the tank's favor, but I do think it was more engaging than what we have now, where positioning just... doesn't matter.
   
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Used to do that all the time in 3rd/4th. Deep Strike dropping 4x Melta Guard Command right behind Wave Serpents, annihilate them, and prevent the occupants from getting out.

   
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Iowa

So my chaos terminators cost 28 points now up from 23, but I can equip them with 5 pt reaper chaincannons? That's kind of cool, I guess.
   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

 Warptide wrote:
So my chaos terminators cost 28 points now up from 23, but I can equip them with 5 pt reaper chaincannons? That's kind of cool, I guess.
Not exactly.

Your Chaos Terminators used to be 24 points with a Chain axe, 28 points with Power Sword/Axe/Maul. Now they are 28 points with a Chain axe, Power sword, Power Axe, or Power Maul.

As for Reaper Chaincannons, you cannot arm them with Reaper Chaincannons per the datasheet. You may infer that GW actually meant Reaper Autocannons are 5 points, instead of the old 10 points. Or you can just decide to take them at their word and get free Reaper Autocannons.
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I just want stuff that is supposed to be resistant to weaker weapons to stop getting rules that make them resistant to stronger weapons and do nothing against weak ones.
GW's inability to translate fluff to rules is nothing new, sadly.

One that always sticks out to me is the Venom Cannon from the 3rd Ed Tyranid Codex:

"Even vehicle armour can be penetrated by the crystals, leading to poisoned crew members and shattered equipment..."

... But VCs could only ever glance vehicles. They mention less lethality vs vehicles in the fluff, but for the 4th Ed Codex the sentence above just stops at "equipment", and again, they cannot actually penetrate.
Yeah, I know. It made me sad back then too. Best I can do is criticize when they screw it up and praise when they nail it.

Still trying to be more polite. If you catch me being toxic please call me on it.

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 alextroy wrote:
Your Chaos Terminators used to be 24 points with a Chain axe, 28 points with Power Sword/Axe/Maul. Now they are 28 points with a Chain axe, Power sword, Power Axe, or Power Maul.
So they've priced Chain Axes as being worth the same as Power Swords/Axes/Mauls?

The cynic in me says that they've done that as the box has one of each. The realist in me says that they just don't realise what they've done.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/12 06:14:48


   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
Your Chaos Terminators used to be 24 points with a Chain axe, 28 points with Power Sword/Axe/Maul. Now they are 28 points with a Chain axe, Power sword, Power Axe, or Power Maul.
So they've priced Chain Axes as being worth the same as Power Swords/Axes/Mauls?

The cynic in me says that they've done that as the box has one of each. The realist in me says that they just don't realise what they've done.


There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.

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SemperMortis wrote:
The scary part is that Space Marines have several units now that are ALMOST as good as Eradicators ready to take their place when Erads do finally (maybe?) get their nerf. Dev squad, Attack bikes, etc.



Name me an alternative to erads that isn't based on multimelta.

Obviously the issue aren't erads alone. All multimelta platforms are busted after the change.
   
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 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.
I fail to see the relevance.

They've priced chain axes the same as power swords/axes/mauls. The Terminator getting an extra wound doesn't make the efficacy of the chain axe improve so that it is equal to the power weapons.

   
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 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.


When looking at the difference in costs for CSM plague marines to DG plague marines, I would say it's fairly safe to say that extra wounds aren't considered yet.

I agree with H.B.M.C., whoever changed the costs probably forgot that chaos terminators can have chain axes.

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Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
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Spoletta wrote:


Obviously the issue aren't erads alone. All multimelta platforms are busted after the change.


This isn't true. Immolators, dominions with 4 meltas, TACs or battle sisters with 1 or 2 meltas aren't busted for example. Veterans with combi melta and a transport/jump packs or terminators with combi meltas are huge points sink and definitely not overpowered untis. Stormfang gunship/stormwolf is almost trash now despite 2D3 Melta shots in addition to 2 lascannons and the big hellfrost weapon, while Land Raiders can carry a multimelta but only a handful of players here (I'm one of them!) would rate LRs above trash tier units.

Actually if you count them most of the unit that can carry meltas are fine or in a bad state, it's just a few units that are both melta platforms and overpowered. Most of them belong to SM.

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 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.


When looking at the difference in costs for CSM plague marines to DG plague marines, I would say it's fairly safe to say that extra wounds aren't considered yet.

I agree with H.B.M.C., whoever changed the costs probably forgot that chaos terminators can have chain axes.

Well with the number of Chainaxes in the kit no wonder they forgot about them!

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.


When looking at the difference in costs for CSM plague marines to DG plague marines, I would say it's fairly safe to say that extra wounds aren't considered yet.

I agree with H.B.M.C., whoever changed the costs probably forgot that chaos terminators can have chain axes.

Well with the number of Chainaxes in the kit no wonder they forgot about them!

If we go by number in kit then CSM termintaors should get a fear aura and bonus attacks for all the fence spikes in the kit.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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So in a nutshell we're now waiting for the errata for the errata?
   
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As usual.
   
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Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.


When looking at the difference in costs for CSM plague marines to DG plague marines, I would say it's fairly safe to say that extra wounds aren't considered yet.

I agree with H.B.M.C., whoever changed the costs probably forgot that chaos terminators can have chain axes.

Well with the number of Chainaxes in the kit no wonder they forgot about them!

If we go by number in kit then CSM termintaors should get a fear aura and bonus attacks for all the fence spikes in the kit.

We had people here literally defending that garbage kit and the amount of space the trophy racks take up. It's unbelievable.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
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No trophy racks is the best part of DG models. I'd break them three times before I'm even done painting them.

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We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.


When looking at the difference in costs for CSM plague marines to DG plague marines, I would say it's fairly safe to say that extra wounds aren't considered yet.

I agree with H.B.M.C., whoever changed the costs probably forgot that chaos terminators can have chain axes.

Well with the number of Chainaxes in the kit no wonder they forgot about them!

If we go by number in kit then CSM termintaors should get a fear aura and bonus attacks for all the fence spikes in the kit.

We had people here literally defending that garbage kit and the amount of space the trophy racks take up. It's unbelievable.


a case of "GWcandonowrongitis" it's fairly contagious i heard.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/12 12:00:06


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.


When looking at the difference in costs for CSM plague marines to DG plague marines, I would say it's fairly safe to say that extra wounds aren't considered yet.

I agree with H.B.M.C., whoever changed the costs probably forgot that chaos terminators can have chain axes.

Well with the number of Chainaxes in the kit no wonder they forgot about them!

If we go by number in kit then CSM termintaors should get a fear aura and bonus attacks for all the fence spikes in the kit.

We had people here literally defending that garbage kit and the amount of space the trophy racks take up. It's unbelievable.

To be fair, the problem isn't that the kit has lots of spikes - it's that GW cheaped out and didn't include an extra sprue with more weapons/options on it. £35 for two sprues is a joke.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Lord Damocles wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Spoiler:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
There's also the outside chance that this change takes into account the upcoming +1W, in the same way some of the MFM2020 changes seemed to take into account upcoming weapon profile changes.

Not saying it is a definite, mind you, just a possibility.


When looking at the difference in costs for CSM plague marines to DG plague marines, I would say it's fairly safe to say that extra wounds aren't considered yet.

I agree with H.B.M.C., whoever changed the costs probably forgot that chaos terminators can have chain axes.

Well with the number of Chainaxes in the kit no wonder they forgot about them!

If we go by number in kit then CSM termintaors should get a fear aura and bonus attacks for all the fence spikes in the kit.

We had people here literally defending that garbage kit and the amount of space the trophy racks take up. It's unbelievable.

To be fair, the problem isn't that the kit has lots of spikes - it's that GW cheaped out and didn't include an extra sprue with more weapons/options on it. £35 for two sprues is a joke.


ORRRRR, gw could've gotten rid of the stupid garden fences for terminators, AND increased the weapons instead. god forbid common sense and value.

For the record i got nothing against the fences BUT on terminators they look bad.

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 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





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Nah, the trophy racks are an important part of the Chaos Terminator aesthetic and have been since 2nd edition. The really unjustifiable misuse of sprue space in that kit is the heads. You don't need ten heads for five minis when all but two of them are virtually indistinguishable from each other. And they still managed to miss out the awesome rhino head from the 2nd edition metals!

Accusing people of whining is just a particularly lazy way of admitting you have no counter-arguments.

Compromising with evil doesn't make you better than them. It makes you a collaborator. 
   
 
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