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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Crispy78 wrote:
So in a nutshell we're now waiting for the errata for the errata?


I don't remember who posted it, but it was so impactful for me that I saved. Changed my mind set about w40k and rules design a lot. Before I thought that GW is just not having enough time, or too few to make good rules for everyone. I think it is shows how reaction to codex, FAQ and CA work among players of w40k.


After 7e codex: "They're not too good now, maybe in a later FAQ they'll improve!"
After later FAQ: "They didn't get better, but I'm sure they'll get better in 8th edition!"
After 8e index: "They're awful now, but they'll get fixed in the FAQ!"
After index FAQ: "They're still awful, but they'll be good when they get a codex!"
After codex: "They're really bad, but they'll get fixed in their FAQ!"
After codex FAQ: "They're awful. However, they'll get fixed for sure in Chapter Approved!"
After Chapter Approved: "They just got worse. However, I'm sure they'll get better in the March FAQ!"
After March FAQ: "They got worse again, and didn't even receive any specific fixes despite overwhelming feedback. Just wait until the September FAQ, they're sure to improve!"
After September FAQ: "They didn't get any fixes at all despite heavy feedback? Just wait until CA, that's when they'll be fixed!"

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Definitely some oddities in the MFM document - was idly looking at the IG section over my lunch break, and noted that it costs me to give a plasma pistol the a Tempestor Prime or an Infantry Squad Sergeant, but not to the Sergeant of a unit of Storm Troopers, which seems weird.

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Dysartes wrote:
Definitely some oddities in the MFM document - was idly looking at the IG section over my lunch break, and noted that it costs me to give a plasma pistol the a Tempestor Prime or an Infantry Squad Sergeant, but not to the Sergeant of a unit of Storm Troopers, which seems weird.


Thousand Sons Defile Twin LC is still 10 points. Ugg. Very problematic.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Do you mean to tell me that a Games Workshop document is full of lazy typos and errors that would have been caught be a thorough proofread done by people who play and understand the game?

That's impossible! I refuse to believe it!
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





yukishiro1 wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that a Games Workshop document is full of lazy typos and errors that would have been caught be a thorough proofread done by people who play and understand the game?

That's impossible! I refuse to believe it!


Here's hoping the editor position they hired gets up and running soon.

   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that a Games Workshop document is full of lazy typos and errors that would have been caught be a thorough proofread done by people who play and understand the game?

That's impossible! I refuse to believe it!


Here's hoping the editor position they hired gets up and running soon.


And also competent.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Not Online!!! wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that a Games Workshop document is full of lazy typos and errors that would have been caught be a thorough proofread done by people who play and understand the game?

That's impossible! I refuse to believe it!


Here's hoping the editor position they hired gets up and running soon.


And also competent.

Having a editor itself alone is more competent than whatever was happening before.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dysartes wrote:
Definitely some oddities in the MFM document - was idly looking at the IG section over my lunch break, and noted that it costs me to give a plasma pistol the a Tempestor Prime or an Infantry Squad Sergeant, but not to the Sergeant of a unit of Storm Troopers, which seems weird.
Not convinced they verified their points lists against wargear lists. The inquisition acolytes for example have misplaced their entire ranged weapons chart making them officially 9 points a model with a melta or plasma gun. They'd almost be good if they weren't so terrible.
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that a Games Workshop document is full of lazy typos and errors that would have been caught be a thorough proofread done by people who play and understand the game?

That's impossible! I refuse to believe it!


Here's hoping the editor position they hired gets up and running soon.


And also competent.

Having a editor itself alone is more competent than whatever was happening before.

i mean yea, but personally, raising to bar from basically No proofreading , to atleast beeing written (hopefully) correctly isn't that high in regards to what actually matters, aka general design vision and balance.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




What do you think the spin up time is on the new proof reader? Do you think the new Codexes will be proofread for example, or are we talking 10th?
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
What do you think the spin up time is on the new proof reader? Do you think the new Codexes will be proofread for example, or are we talking 10th?


I'd say depends on the type of documment.

what i mean by that is that GW plans longterm, i'd not be surprised if all the books are basically done and only need printing at the correct time in regards to dexes.
In regards to more shortterm stuff i'd say chances are high that an editor indeed comes into effect, but faction dexes, optimistically late 9th maybee?


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Not Online!!! wrote:
what i mean by that is that GW plans longterm, i'd not be surprised if all the books are basically done and only need printing at the correct time in regards to dexes.


Hmmm. I think GW writes the books 6-9 months before they are released.
Certainly in 8th I feel you could see a lot of "this is how we solve this problem - which may no longer be that relevant due to changes we've made, but we are doing it anyway".

So I doubt they have all the 9th books just sitting there. I can believe DG/DE were ready to go with 9th's release, but I'd be suspect on books released in say April and beyond.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yeah, it's pretty obvious they don't do all the books at roughly the same time. There are too many mid-edition changes of direction. Somewhere between 9-12 months lead time would be my guess, due to Covid. Pre-Covid I think it was closer to 6-9 months.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/14 14:07:56


 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that a Games Workshop document is full of lazy typos and errors that would have been caught be a thorough proofread done by people who play and understand the game?

That's impossible! I refuse to believe it!


Here's hoping the editor position they hired gets up and running soon.


And also competent.

Having a editor itself alone is more competent than whatever was happening before.

i mean yea, but personally, raising to bar from basically No proofreading , to atleast beeing written (hopefully) correctly isn't that high in regards to what actually matters, aka general design vision and balance.


So yeah, I realize that the GW team does what they do for a living, and as such, they should be held to higher standard than random posters on the internet, but the irony of berating someone for typos in post that contains one, and then to have a bunch of people pile on without noticing or acknowledging the typo in the post...

Well let's just say there's a lot of glass houses here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/14 15:23:57


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




PenitentJake wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
Do you mean to tell me that a Games Workshop document is full of lazy typos and errors that would have been caught be a thorough proofread done by people who play and understand the game?

That's impossible! I refuse to believe it!


Here's hoping the editor position they hired gets up and running soon.


And also competent.

Having a editor itself alone is more competent than whatever was happening before.

i mean yea, but personally, raising to bar from basically No proofreading , to atleast beeing written (hopefully) correctly isn't that high in regards to what actually matters, aka general design vision and balance.


So yeah, I realize that the GW team does what they do for a living, and as such, they should be held to higher standard than random posters on the internet, but the irony of berating someone for typos in post that contains one, and then to have a bunch of people pile on without noticing or acknowledging the typo in the post...

Well let's just say there's a lot of glass houses here.

What the hell are you even babbling about?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Reread Yuki's post- I bolded the typo.

His post is criticizing GW for making typos. The post he wrote to criticize GW for making Typos contains one.

None of the people who replied to his post recognized that it contained a typo, or if they did, they did not point it out.

The glass house reference comes from the proverbial phrase "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones," meaning that you shouldn't really call people out for making mistakes that you yourself are prone to making.

This is not to criticize or shame Yuki, or anyone who replied- merely to point out how easy typos are to make, and how easy they are to miss.

Funny story: you may notice that my post had to be edited. Guess why?

After hitting "Submit," I realized that I too had made a typo.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/14 16:46:21


 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

PenitentJake wrote:
Reread Yuki's post- I bolded the typo.

His post is criticizing GW for making typos. The post he wrote to criticize GW for making Typos contains one.

None of the people who replied to his post recognized that it contained a typo, or if they did, they did not point it out.

The glass house reference comes from the proverbial phrase "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones," meaning that you shouldn't really call people out for making mistakes that you yourself are prone to making.

This is not to criticize or shame Yuki, or anyone who replied- merely to point out how easy typos are to make, and how easy they are to miss.

Funny story: you may notice that my post had to be edited. Guess why?

After hitting "Submit," I realized that I too had made a typo.


Cool story. Come back when Yuki is charging people £30 for the privilege of reading his posts.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

vipoid wrote:Cool story. Come back when Yuki is charging people £30 for the privilege of reading his posts.


You'd think people would expect more from a team of professionals, and it would be fair to comment when their quality standards dip.

Karol wrote:I don't remember who posted it, but it was so impactful for me that I saved. Changed my mind set about w40k and rules design a lot. Before I thought that GW is just not having enough time, or too few to make good rules for everyone. I think it is shows how reaction to codex, FAQ and CA work among players of w40k.


After 7e codex: "They're not too good now, maybe in a later FAQ they'll improve!"
After later FAQ: "They didn't get better, but I'm sure they'll get better in 8th edition!"
After 8e index: "They're awful now, but they'll get fixed in the FAQ!"
After index FAQ: "They're still awful, but they'll be good when they get a codex!"
After codex: "They're really bad, but they'll get fixed in their FAQ!"
After codex FAQ: "They're awful. However, they'll get fixed for sure in Chapter Approved!"
After Chapter Approved: "They just got worse. However, I'm sure they'll get better in the March FAQ!"
After March FAQ: "They got worse again, and didn't even receive any specific fixes despite overwhelming feedback. Just wait until the September FAQ, they're sure to improve!"
After September FAQ: "They didn't get any fixes at all despite heavy feedback? Just wait until CA, that's when they'll be fixed!"


Gell-Mann amnesia effect in full force. Once you turn the page, you forget about your problems with what came before.

https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/

It helps me to think about balancing in adaptive evolutionary terms. Each faction is optimizing for some aspect of the game - including commercial ones - and this process leads to some dead ends.

Biology never says "this process is all screwed up! It's time to stop." It continues until something in it's environment changes to cause other adaptations.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

PenitentJake wrote:
His post is criticizing GW for making typos. The post he wrote to criticize GW for making Typos contains one.
That's just Muphry's Law. It's to be expected.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I know some people here think I'm too negative on GW, but even I would have thought they put a bit more effort into their books than the effort I put into making a snarky post.

If you have a pipeline to GW, though, offer them this deal: I'll agree to make sure all my posts here are flawlessly typo-free, if they agree to do the same with all their publications. Whoever screws up first can owe the other party 1% of their yearly gross income.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/14 22:29:39


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






PenitentJake wrote:
This is not to criticize or shame Yuki, or anyone who replied- merely to point out how easy typos are to make, and how easy they are to miss.

And how easy they should be to fix BEFORE publication by somebody who's job it is to catch typos.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

To be honest, GW's failure at writing is legendary to the point I'm not sure why people still make fun of it. That horse was killed, put on the golden throne and killed again.


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




P.S. I do work that involves careful proofreading, because unlike GW, our reputation would be in tatters if we let typos regularly slip through into what we publish. One of the first lessons anyone learns is that you can't proof-read your own work effectively, especially not without letting it sit for an extended period of time and coming back to it fresh. It would explain a lot about GW's repeated failure on this front if they don't have an organized workflow set up to make sure everything that goes out the door has been carefully combed over by several different people, including by people who were not directly involved in writing it. When typos make it through into a final document, that's a failure of the organization, not of the individual.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Also I'd say there is also probably more of a distinction from does the typo materialy change the application or understanding of the rules.
Or is it that someone has typed th instead of the or they?

In a number of instances GW typos arn't really what I'd class as a typo these are more like a complete failure to clearly convey the intent.
Like how often do we get codex's then FAQ's that say oh no that's not how that rule works. Well that's clearly how you wrote it.

Like it would be nice if it felt like they either tried to put some effort into catching the most game breaking stuff or the clealry WTAF who the F thought Unit A and Unit B are remotely balanced.
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






PenitentJake wrote:
Reread Yuki's post- I bolded the typo.

His post is criticizing GW for making typos. The post he wrote to criticize GW for making Typos contains one.

None of the people who replied to his post recognized that it contained a typo, or if they did, they did not point it out.

The glass house reference comes from the proverbial phrase "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones," meaning that you shouldn't really call people out for making mistakes that you yourself are prone to making.

This is not to criticize or shame Yuki, or anyone who replied- merely to point out how easy typos are to make, and how easy they are to miss.

Funny story: you may notice that my post had to be edited. Guess why?

After hitting "Submit," I realized that I too had made a typo.
Last I checked, I didn't need to spend £100 on books and another £600 on models to read his post.

Add me on Discord: BaconCatBug#0294
+++++List of documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 9th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
Mathhammer tables for 2D6 and 3D6 Charging with various re-roll abilities || Stylus CSS theme for DakkaDakka forums to hide black avatar background and fully hide ignored users. || Userscript to add a button to open all "[First Unread]" links on the page, hides the "[Blog View]" links, and adds a "Subscribed Threads" link to forum pages.  
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





You guys are right; I probably shouldn't have posted what I did- especially since text has no tone.

Obviously, a professional product does demand a higher degree of scrutiny than a forum- I actually did acknowledge this in the original post.

I thought my language was clear enough to indicate that I only posted what I did because I found humour in the irony.

Obviously, some people felt offended, and I sincerely apologize for that. I'll be more careful about making jokes in the future.

Peace :-)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 BaconCatBug wrote:
PenitentJake wrote:
Reread Yuki's post- I bolded the typo.

His post is criticizing GW for making typos. The post he wrote to criticize GW for making Typos contains one.

None of the people who replied to his post recognized that it contained a typo, or if they did, they did not point it out.

The glass house reference comes from the proverbial phrase "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones," meaning that you shouldn't really call people out for making mistakes that you yourself are prone to making.

This is not to criticize or shame Yuki, or anyone who replied- merely to point out how easy typos are to make, and how easy they are to miss.

Funny story: you may notice that my post had to be edited. Guess why?

After hitting "Submit," I realized that I too had made a typo.
Last I checked, I didn't need to spend £100 on books and another £600 on models to read his post.


Wrong! You've been pirating my work this whole time, BaconCatBug. PM me a list of every post of mine you've read and I'll send you back an invoice for how much you owe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PenitentJake wrote:


Obviously, some people felt offended, and I sincerely apologize for that. I'll be more careful about making jokes in the future.

Peace :-)


To be clear, I wasn't offended, and I appreciate the irony. I just thought it was a good chance to snark out a bit more about how low the standards are for GW rules compared to what we'd expect from any other company worth billions. GW still often gets given slack as if it's six guys in someone's basement the way it was in the 80s, not the company worth billions that it now is.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/01/14 23:46:14


 
   
Made in nl
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

yukishiro1 wrote:
P.S. I do work that involves careful proofreading, because unlike GW, our reputation would be in tatters if we let typos regularly slip through into what we publish. One of the first lessons anyone learns is that you can't proof-read your own work effectively, especially not without letting it sit for an extended period of time and coming back to it fresh. It would explain a lot about GW's repeated failure on this front if they don't have an organized workflow set up to make sure everything that goes out the door has been carefully combed over by several different people, including by people who were not directly involved in writing it. When typos make it through into a final document, that's a failure of the organization, not of the individual.

This is true.

   
Made in de
Waaagh! Ork Warboss on Warbike






yukishiro1 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Spoiler:
PenitentJake wrote:
Reread Yuki's post- I bolded the typo.

His post is criticizing GW for making typos. The post he wrote to criticize GW for making Typos contains one.

None of the people who replied to his post recognized that it contained a typo, or if they did, they did not point it out.

The glass house reference comes from the proverbial phrase "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones," meaning that you shouldn't really call people out for making mistakes that you yourself are prone to making.

This is not to criticize or shame Yuki, or anyone who replied- merely to point out how easy typos are to make, and how easy they are to miss.

Funny story: you may notice that my post had to be edited. Guess why?

After hitting "Submit," I realized that I too had made a typo.
Last I checked, I didn't need to spend £100 on books and another £600 on models to read his post.


Wrong! You've been pirating my work this whole time, BaconCatBug. PM me a list of every post of mine you've read and I'll send you back an invoice for how much you owe.


I'll start a site hosted in Russia that will make your posts searchable and more readable than any of your original content has ever been. For free.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in gb
Instigating Incubi




The dark behind the eyes.

 Jidmah wrote:
yukishiro1 wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
Spoiler:
PenitentJake wrote:
Reread Yuki's post- I bolded the typo.

His post is criticizing GW for making typos. The post he wrote to criticize GW for making Typos contains one.

None of the people who replied to his post recognized that it contained a typo, or if they did, they did not point it out.

The glass house reference comes from the proverbial phrase "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones," meaning that you shouldn't really call people out for making mistakes that you yourself are prone to making.

This is not to criticize or shame Yuki, or anyone who replied- merely to point out how easy typos are to make, and how easy they are to miss.

Funny story: you may notice that my post had to be edited. Guess why?

After hitting "Submit," I realized that I too had made a typo.
Last I checked, I didn't need to spend £100 on books and another £600 on models to read his post.


Wrong! You've been pirating my work this whole time, BaconCatBug. PM me a list of every post of mine you've read and I'll send you back an invoice for how much you owe.


I'll start a site hosted in Russia that will make your posts searchable and more readable than any of your original content has ever been. For free.


Ah, but Yuki will counter by putting out an app that will allow people to read his posts by paying a monthly subscription. Except that they'll be in a random order, with no way to sort them by thread or date, and some may have been badly translated to Chinese.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
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