Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I bought 2 dreadknights, haven't built them up yet. I was interested in any tips on them

specially interested in knowing which equipment to give them as they have a lot of options in the kit
I already know that I should give them the personal teleporter (I also have a unit of converted Interceptors which should work well with all of them shunting together)

So what's the advice on these things? Enlighten me

There is some trick to get them to both assault on the first turn. I don't have the codex so I don't know what it's called.

I dont play gk but my friend does and i can say the personal teleporter is a must.

It helps it get into assault tons faster (which it should be in as much as possible to avoid getting shot down by lascannons and meltas)

And the shunt move can guarantee it being in your opponents face by turn one. if used right it can by truly terrifying to play against

I'd say incinerator + teleporter and just leave the 2 fists alone to get the extra attack.

Stacking more weapons just increases costs too much for my liking. They aren't even that sturdy anyway.

When I get one I plan on equipping with personal teleporter, heavy incinerator, daemonhammer+incinerator. Str 10+ 2d6 just offers too much win to resist

all they need are greatswords, teleporters and a heavy incinerator I have a mate who uses three like that with scary results

In fact, personal teleporter is a must have, while heavy incinerator is an option. If you have access to grand strategy, give this guy a scout move.

With two of them in the army, I would run them both with Teleporters only. The swords and incinerators are nice, but they bump the cost up pretty high on something that only has four wounds.

I have actually had decent luck with running one naked in a 1500 list. It deepstrikes in later in the game after most of the AP2 threats have been neutralized. It can then smash vehicles or MSU squads and take/clear objectives. I normally have a Grandmaster to make it scoring which also helps. Some people swear that the teleporter is a must take, but I would argue that careful deepstriking can work pretty well (and saves you 70 points).

I run two of them. One with a teleporter and daemonhamer

the other with a heavy psycannon and gatling psilencer. the latter acts as a nasty anti infantry battery, while the former is a ZOMG INMYFACETURN1 kind of threat. I also like to leave it un shunted and just jump it up in a few turns to assault its preferred target. Its flexible and deadly if you know what your doing

oh and they arent expensive. They cost me a grand total of 420 points irrc (its late and I dont want to do the maths again) together. And when one considered the threat and shooting sponge they are, its a total bargain

bucheonman wrote:There is some trick to get them to both assault on the first turn. I don't have the codex so I don't know what it's called.

Grand Strategy is the only thing that does this and isn't really a trick.

As for Dreadknights in general, Teleporter, Incinerator, and Greatsword is the best set-up; most importantly is that you bought two however as one in isolation is too easily neutralized.

the "trick" is to give it a teleporter, then use grand master to give it scout, and "shunt" during your scout move. then on turn one, move shoot, assault. however, this got FAQ'ed to disallow shunts in scout move phase.

that said, having a DK move like jump infantry is pretty boss. the few times ive brought one it does ok..... but not really earning its points. i would suggest if you take one, you need at least 2 and preferablly 3. otherwise psyflemen dreads are much more effective uses of your heavy slot, and less pricey allowing more points spent on your marines.

DarthSpader wrote:the "trick" is to give it a teleporter, then use grand master to give it scout, and "shunt" during your scout move. then on turn one, move shoot, assault. however, this got FAQ'ed to disallow shunts in scout move phase.

that said, having a DK move like jump infantry is pretty boss. the few times ive brought one it does ok..... but not really earning its points. i would suggest if you take one, you need at least 2 and preferablly 3. otherwise psyflemen dreads are much more effective uses of your heavy slot, and less pricey allowing more points spent on your marines.

Well, in fact, one DK can eventually be easily dealt with by an intact enemy army, but if you field 2 or 3, then this becomes a different story.

thats what i mean... 1 is just gonna die. 2 probally still going down but might take a few things with. 3, is a whole new ballgame and a real threat for someone to consider.

my issue with them is they compete for psyflemen dreads, which imho are better. each one fires 4 twin linked str 8 shots... and has great range. plus i believe they are less points per as well. generally speaking i take 6 of those in an army, 3 are venerable. it changes the entire way the GK can deal with other armies like DE by inflicting alot of pain early. DK i dont think can do that, being relegated to a 18" charge, or a 24" shooting attack.

No practice yet but I am going to field 1 with incinerator and sword. It is there to take fire. Meanwhile the AC dreads and terminators should get ignored for a turn or two. So I am looking at it as a visually impressive model that is going to absorb fire and if it gets to shoot fine.

How about my GK monster mash list?

Grand Master - 175

3x venerable Psyfleman Dreads - 585

2x 10 GKSS w/ psycannon x2, daemon hammer, halberd x4, Rhino - 580

3x Dreadknights w/ heavy psycannon - 510

Total: 1850 pts.

This is what I'm going to try out next time.

AC dreads are still my favorites but I've noticed a big change now with so much freaking night fighting going on thanks to the very popular necrons lately that it's really changing the meta game somewhat. It really is starting to feel like every 3rd or 4th guy is going to go necron on me with either scarab swarm with 1st or 2nd turn assaults or lighting bolts or at the very very least, solar pulses to ruin long range shooting. Taking a dreadknight is not an auto win in these situations either since they are vulnerable to mindshackle scarabs and g-swords would allow them to reroll failed to wounds on themselves which can be pretty bad.

I think I've seen enough experimentation now to see effective to very effective assaulty or at least hard to break necron lists. Either it's tarpit scarabs which will eventually eat through your armor or 2+ saves, or mind shackle big blobs of 10 immortals or w/e that are actually pretty hard to break since they will most likely shoot you up pretty bad (cough, tesla weapons, cough) before you can get into combat and is very tough to shoot to death what with RP and usually a rez orb in there, or the now quite successful "wraithwing" massed assaults. Also few vehicles which is not always a bad thing since so many lists are anti-mech now.

Not a lot of viable counters to this if you are depending on long range firepower to save the day. I'm still experimenting on counter-necron lists for GK and cheaper dreadknights are definately in the running on how to effectively stop them. So far, double incinerators have been my favorite for cover save ignore, burn swarms, and generally causing reliable wounds. Scatter dice are not my friends for the psycannon. Also fails to ignore the 3+ immortals roll with. G.sword has been canned due to points and the before mentioned Mind shackle scarabs. I usually focus fire 2 deads and w/e else at a single unit to try and wipe it out in a single phase to prevent RP. If assaulting, I try to at least have 2 units vs 1 as much as possible. 2 fists still can get hammerhand and you do get a 1+ attack with them so it's not that bad with WS5.

str 7 MC attacks can still pretty reliable pen rear armor on just about anything on the board. slight disadvantage vs monoliths and land raiders but meh, I'm seeing a lot less of them lately.

Gornall wrote:With two of them in the army, I would run them both with Teleporters only. The swords and incinerators are nice, but they bump the cost up pretty high on something that only has four wounds.

I gotta ask, exactly how cost effective is a Dreadknight that hunts MSU's? Cant GK do that better? (These are rhetorical questions, I am a GK player)

In my humble opinion, I would say that if your going to take a Dreadknight, the Incinerator, even before the teleporter is a must. The last place you want your DK is tarpitted in a blob of guardsmen, only swinging 4 attacks. Nor is a teleporter going to save you from those lascannons. To be honest, I'd rather my DK be taking the LC shots than my infantry or dreadnoughts, who do the real killing. Dreadknights are my answer to hordes my small infantry force cannot overcome alone. Coupled with my 2x5 Interceptors with 1xDH and 1xIncinerator you can burn a large unit out of cover, and use the teleporting to place your unit for a perfect flame template hit. I dont have a teleporter on my DK, It costs to much for what its worth (which is essentially the ability to hunt tanks, stacked on top of a bullet magnet thats quickly reaching 200+ points).

(Heres where all my respect flies out the window) Instead I use a heavy psycannon, I like its ability to threaten all armour saves with its ability to rend, and it allows my DK to sit back and harrow infantry lines and burn them if they get a little to close, with the threat of its strong melee attacks ever looming when the survivors of an infantry squad attempt to attack it.

In fact, both the heavy incinerator and the heavy psycannon are suitable weapons of choice for a DK. What weapon to choose depends on the rest of the army.

The price for DK can be a problem. You should think of them by Role:

Do you need to sweep infantry (gun Knight)
Do you need to crack AV14 (hammer/Sword)
Do you need an HQ Hunter (flying fist)
Do you need a flanker (gun knight)
Or are you just looking for an all purpose threat (Flying Fist w/ Incinerator)

First, DK work better in pairs, as you split threat priority.

Second, DoomFists work just fine and it's usually in your best interest to keep the fists rather than lose an attack to upgrade to the sword or hammer. He's an MC which means he's got +2d6 to armor pen anyway.

Third, people forget that the DK can Deep Strike, which makes him an interesting gun platform as well. In the right list, using psychic communion to get him in when you want him; you could equip him with both Incinerator and H. Psycannon and deep strike him behind enemy lines. In that case, to keep his cost down, ditch the PT and definitely leave the doomfists on.

for 205 you can just make him a flying fist. 18" threat range MC with 4 instant death doom fist attacks on the charge is not bad. I'd still throw in 1 gun for good measure though.

I find that the Dread Knight is more useful tactically and psychologically than it is at actually engaging a unit. I believe that it absolutely needs a teleporter before any other item of wargear because it is that mobility that allows it to be a threat to any unit it wants to attack, especially because it's probably best against high armour value tanks than it is any other target or units of soft targets that can be battered by the incinerator and it needs good mobility to go for those kinds of units.

But it has big problems when it's having to fight any other kind of unit without being able to engage it on it's own (in my opinion, limited) terms - it doesn't put out enough attacks to worry a big unit in CC or even a small one with invul saves and it only has a 5+ invul save itself. Basically, it can be taken down quite quickly by any kind of elite unit with invul saves, power weapons, above I4 attacks and AP1/AP weaponry of which there's plenty out there.

But it is very mobile with that teleporter and does have the 'ooh, big shiny' thing that means it will draw fire. And it is pretty decent against AV14. I think it needs to be in a list that complements it though, so taking interceptors and maybe Mordrak would be useful. And I think that fielding more than 1 would be a good idea, too.

Overall, it's let me down. It's not done badly when I've used it but it's only really managed to take out a few models here and there and it's too easy to bog it down in combat. It's poor against elite lists where you're facing artificer armour (no good for the incinerator) and especially invul saves, power weapons etc etc.

Jaon wrote:

Gornall wrote:With two of them in the army, I would run them both with Teleporters only. The swords and incinerators are nice, but they bump the cost up pretty high on something that only has four wounds.

I gotta ask, exactly how cost effective is a Dreadknight that hunts MSU's? Cant GK do that better? (These are rhetorical questions, I am a GK player)

In my humble opinion, I would say that if your going to take a Dreadknight, the Incinerator, even before the teleporter is a must. The last place you want your DK is tarpitted in a blob of guardsmen, only swinging 4 attacks. Nor is a teleporter going to save you from those lascannons. To be honest, I'd rather my DK be taking the LC shots than my infantry or dreadnoughts, who do the real killing. Dreadknights are my answer to hordes my small infantry force cannot overcome alone. Coupled with my 2x5 Interceptors with 1xDH and 1xIncinerator you can burn a large unit out of cover, and use the teleporting to place your unit for a perfect flame template hit. I dont have a teleporter on my DK, It costs to much for what its worth (which is essentially the ability to hunt tanks, stacked on top of a bullet magnet thats quickly reaching 200+ points).

(Heres where all my respect flies out the window) Instead I use a heavy psycannon, I like its ability to threaten all armour saves with its ability to rend, and it allows my DK to sit back and harrow infantry lines and burn them if they get a little to close, with the threat of its strong melee attacks ever looming when the survivors of an infantry squad attempt to attack it.

What I meant is that by deepstriking a naked DK in later in the game, hopefully you have had enough time to whittle down your opponents heavy weapons. Small-arms fire that would gut PAGK squads just bounces off of a DK, so once the heavy weapons are gone, your DK turns into a juggernaught. Also, it can eat Grey Hunters, BA Assault Marines, and other units that could go toe-to-toe with a PAGK squad. And at 130 points, it is dirt cheap for what it can do and how much fire it can survive. As you pile on the upgrades, I think that cost efficiency gets lost.

I agree that the teleporter is overpriced, as you could afford over half of another DK for the price of the teleporter. It can be useful if you are going all-in and trying to shove threats in your opponent's face from the start of T1 (which becomes a viable tactic with two of them), but otherwise, I think those points are better spent elsewhere. Personally, I also think the Sword is somewhat of a waste, unless you are wanting to hunt LRs with it. You get an extra attack with the Fists and already have S6 +2D6 armor pen. Rerolling hits and wounds/armor pen just isn't worth the extra points and loss of an attack.

I also agree that if I was going to take an upgrade it would probably be the Incinerator. It is cheap(ish) and gives the DK a capability it doesn't already possess--the ability to kill infantry at range, regardless of cover. The only reasons I don't personally use it is I couldn't fit the points into my list, and I like being able to have my DK run to offset the lack of a teleporter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ColdSadHungry wrote:But it has big problems when it's having to fight any other kind of unit without being able to engage it on it's own (in my opinion, limited) terms - it doesn't put out enough attacks to worry a big unit in CC or even a small one with invul saves and it only has a 5+ invul save itself. Basically, it can be taken down quite quickly by any kind of elite unit with invul saves, power weapons, above I4 attacks and AP1/AP weaponry of which there's plenty out there.
....
Overall, it's let me down. It's not done badly when I've used it but it's only really managed to take out a few models here and there and it's too easy to bog it down in combat. It's poor against elite lists where you're facing artificer armour (no good for the incinerator) and especially invul saves, power weapons etc etc.

I think the DK works best as a bully unit. You are right in that it cannot handle elite units, but I think those are better handled with Stormbolters anyway. DKs are made to wade through MEQs, vehicles, and the occasional MC (NFW ftw). Throw it into units that you know it can beat up and use the rest of your army to kill the things with PWs or AP1/2.

How about 3 Dreadknights with heavy incinerator and heavy psycannon, but without teleporters? Scout move can bring them closer to the enemy and then they are firstly shooty units drawing a lot of fire.

Hrm... could work but you'd need to roll very well or have 2 grand masters to reliably scout 3 of them. How about 1 with tele, and 2 without?. For something like this, I'd use it very aggressively and possibly combine it with a pallystar draigo list in a storm raven so that everything is in your face by turn 2 or eariler. Horribly low model count though

Well, not sure if you'll have the points if you play a Draigowing. Blackmoor took Psyfleman Dreads for shooty support.

Edited. My stuff up

Alphadeadone wrote:Edited. My stuff up

What are you referring to?

wuestenfux wrote:Well, not sure if you'll have the points if you play a Draigowing. Blackmoor took Psyfleman Dreads for shooty support.

You technically could as I had a for fun list that had storm ravens for pally ride, draigo, liby, 2 dreadknights, and then about 10 pallies total. Was horrible for model count at 2k points. Grand total of 14 models? Very fun and fluffy list to play but very ineffective though vs competitive lists.

No remarks about this list?

Grand Master - 175

3x venerable Psyfleman Dreads - 585

2x 10 GKSS w/ psycannon x2, daemon hammer, halberd x4, Rhino - 580

3x Dreadknights w/ heavy psycannon - 510

Total: 1850 pts.

Here is a variant with teleporters as they seem to be viable for DKs:

Grand Master - 175

2x venerable Psyfleman Dreads - 390

2x 10 GKSS w/ psycannon x2, daemon hammer, halberd x4, Rhino - 580

3x Dreadknights w/ teleporter, heavy incinerator - 705

Total: 1850 pts