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Obviously in a game that's aimed 12-year old British boys GW wants to stay as far from the subject of S-E-X as possible. They day their customers discover girls is the day they find better things for their time and money.

But here at Dakka we tend to have a more mature group who are more familiar with the real world and with GW's made up fluff. So i wonder what the Imperium's attitude on sex is.

In the many (MANY!) Black Library books I've read I can only think of a few legitimate relationships. Inquisitor Eisenhorn had a girlfriend on the side but seemed to need to keep it under wraps. And in Gaunts Ghosts we had Tona and Caffran. In Titanicus there was a married couple with the wife in the PDF. Other than that... I mean I haven't read every book and I may have forgotten some but that's all that comes to mind. And funnily enough they're all by Dan Abnett.

Ian Watson's Inquisition Wars had a fairly odd relationship between the Inquisitor Draco and the assassin M'Lindi but it's pretty clear that was illicit.

Obviously a lot of the Imperium is based on the Roman Empire and the Medieval Catholic Church which makes for an odd combination of sexual mores. I would imagine official commands of celibacy that are routinely ignored at the top and bottom levels.

So no one cares too much what the underhivers, laborers and guardsmen are up to. They have their joy girls (& joy boys) and liaisons and of course marriages and provide much of the population growth of the Imperium.

And at the top you have your political marriages and concubines and have people who basically beyond and laws or social morals.

But for the guys in the middle, there you have the true believers and the people afraid to break the rules. So Arbites, adepts, commissars, interrogators and other mid-level Imperial types are probably expected to be celibate.

SoBs are probably meant to be celibate since they're based in part on Catholic nuns. Of course they're also based on Dune's Bene Gesserit, witch-harlots who are assigned to mate with certain lords as part of a millennium-long genetics project. They also have roots in Dune's God Emperor's Fish Speakers, female warriors whose service only ended when they had a child.

Imperial Priests are again based on Catholic ones and probably celibate with decadence and corruption on the top. Though protestant priests, Moslem Imams and some buddhist monks can marry so there's that...

And of course it is well established that Space Marines are not interested in wimmins. Now with so many energetic young scouts around...

Oddly enough some Imperial Priests seem to be based on Roman Catholicism and some on Irish Catholicism... so i wouldn't call celibacy a definate rule in the priesthood.

In the military and the bureaucracy, as well as among ordinary citizens, it follows the norms of society. Within the church, depends on what the donctrines of your sect. Obviously, 'abhor the deviant' being a given, homosexuality, bisexuality, and other non-mainline sexual ideas and relationships are not tolerated without incurring the risk of Inquisitorial investigation.

Otherwise...

There's no official sort of word on how heteronormative the Imperium is, although any sort of pleasure not for the greater good of mankind could be considered HERESY.

Usually safest to assume the whole thing varies from planet to planet--which is, make up whatever you like for your fluff.

As with 99% of 40k fluff, you're likely to find a multitude of individual interpretations all depending on which source you're looking at. For what it's worth, many contradictions could also be explained away with the Ecclesiarchy not trying to convert people from their native religion, but rather using infiltration of the faith (by the Orders Sabine and the Missionarius Galaxia) to twist their belief into thinking that they were worshipping the Emperor all along. As a result of this, said worship can take a lot of forms from planet to planet, including people's stance on sex.

That being said, there exists a universally accepted dogma that celibacy preserves purity, as - at least if you go by GW material - this is enforced in all Scholae Progenium throughout the entire Imperium:

"In direct contrast, each habitat now maintains a strict separation between the two genders and contact between them is restricted purely to religious ceremonies. Only with this purity can the progena hope to be elevated to a position within the Emperor's domain."
- 2E C:SoB

Of course we have to keep in mind that only a small part of the clergy actually comes from the Schola. Still, given that these institutions are run by the Ecclesiarchy it at least seems to be a recognized principle within the Church.

Then we also know that one of the four Chaos Gods (ab)uses lust and sexual desire to corrupt people's minds, so it is possible that knowledge of this - gained by observing and analyzing the pleasure cults occasionally popping up within the Emperor's domain - has led to an understanding that these things can, in fact, be dangerous. Needless to say, that doesn't prevent people from giving in to it, both within mild, perhaps even prudish manners (doggy style? HERESY!) all the way up to excesses and orgies practiced within the isolated chambers of noble strongholds. Generally, it seems the further you go up in terms of influence and power, the more corrupt Imperial society becomes.

The only truly celibate groups in the Imperium would be the Space Marines and the Adeptus Mechanicus. SMs because they are chem-gelded as part of the process that makes them a SM and I would imagine the AM just don't have any interest in those kinds of biological functions.

If we go by GW fluff, it'd apply to the Sororitas as well:

"Part of the puritan lifestyle of the Sisterhood is its isolation, and it is generally only the Canoness and her most experienced Sisters Superior who will have dealings with outsiders - even Sisters of another Order. The Sisters are utterly dedicated to one task or discipline and brook no distraction from their duties."
- 2E C:SoB

So unless we want to delve into certain clichés here ...

Fun detail: WD contained a battle scenario for playing the Necron attack on the SoB convent on Sanctuary 101. When playing as Sisters, your army wasn't allowed to contain any male characters.

I don't think there's widespread celibacy throughout the Imperium. I mean how else do humans repopulate themselves or how does an IG regiment get created if everyone is celibate. It looks like the everyday citizen and most everyone else in the Imperium is far from celibate. I bet the IG guys are typical soldiers wanting to mess around with the local town girls just to get some fun in if you get my meaning.

Especially the ones from tribal worlds...

CrashCanuck wrote:The only truly celibate groups in the Imperium would be the Space Marines and the Adeptus Mechanicus. SMs because they are chem-gelded as part of the process that makes them a SM and I would imagine the AM just don't have any interest in those kinds of biological functions.

A lot of people keep saying that space marines are neutered in one way or another but I've never seen it written elsewhere.

Does it say so in one of the Black Library books or something?

And if so which one?

Sex is only loosely alluded to in 40k, mostly in Slaanesh's "pleasures". Otherwise there's no explanation on any of it.

Try reading Kal Jerico, that's almost porn.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:The only truly celibate groups in the Imperium would be the Space Marines and the Adeptus Mechanicus. SMs because they are chem-gelded as part of the process that makes them a SM and I would imagine the AM just don't have any interest in those kinds of biological functions.

A lot of people keep saying that space marines are neutered in one way or another but I've never seen it written elsewhere.

Does it say so in one of the Black Library books or something?

And if so which one?

I dont think it's so much as they are neutered specifically, but just that the chemical treatment they receive...knocks it offline? Plus the psycho treatment they receive and training that must occur pretty much ensure no time to actually use the equipment.

Ain't the blood of Space Marines poisonous? Wouldn't that like disintegrate the womb of the woman they had sex with?

Sex is normal in the Imperium as it is normal today ( logically, no sex = dying race [Eldar] ) with some exceptions in several cases.
Space Marines don't have urge for that at all, because all they know is war and conquest. The exception would be Space Wolves, but beside drinking and eating like a pig I am still to see one of them engaged in such activities.
Adeptus Mechanicus think that Human body and it's emotions are weak, so the other basic of their machine cult is to get rid of all emotions in your body. The only exception to this rule is techpristes that had a relationship with Gaunt ( or Cain, I can't remember ). It was even noted that it was a great sin.
Sisters of Battle.... many debate them as not-celibate at all. But seeing that they see all kinds of pleasure as a sin ( because it makes you deviate from your duty toward Emperor ) no Sister would embrace such a thing because having sex means having a ton of pleasure. The only exception I know about is that retired Sister from Cain novels... ( of course, before that I didn't know that pension is possible for them at all ). Anyway...any Sister caught in this "unholy deed" would be promoted to Repentia.
Other Imperial organisations are like standard Humans....Guard and even Inquisition have no objections when it come to this.

No there ain't any policy on the issue about Sisters of Battle having sex, so caught with her power armour down would likely only have the other Sorotitas laughing about a Sister of Battle for the rest of her life only . From Cain it was just that in general he regarded them as too fanatical to have relationships, and they also are damn good in rugby, because they thought the goal of the game was to hospitalize the opposition.

Also it must be noted the military arm of the Sororitas seem to be based on the Fishspeakers of the Dune-universe. The other parts seem to be Bene Genesises and such parts, so I can see them actually maybe even having a husband. The Fishspeakers have husbands, but they are non-military.

Well Gaunt and Cain certainly has had lots of sex. The Inquisition has been known for their numbers of sluts and rakes as well.

Beaviz81 wrote:Ain't the blood of Space Marines poisonous? Wouldn't that like disintegrate the womb of the woman they had sex with?

Someone here needs to take a crash course in human biology...

Back to thread, celibacy only seems to be enforced amongst Space Marines (including Grey Knights), Sororitas, and probably the higher echelons of the Ecclesiarchy and the AdMech.

Unsurprisingy, all of them being meritocratic elites.

The commisariat raises doubts. As commisars are orphans trained from birth at the facilities of the Schola Progenium, there's no risk in Yarrick Jr. using birthright, influence and foreknowledge to upset the organizational status quo. On the other side, "only in death does duty end": They're probably too focused on their jobs to settle down and start making babies. That doesn't preclude the occasional tryst, though...

Its one of those long disscussed points - the reference material is for reasons noted reasonably vague.

As menitioned there are various references in the novels to sexual partners

Cain has loads including with an Inquisitor, his liasion with the Adeptus Mechanicus lady is not noted as a sin as I recall and she later comes back as Magos - although very little humanity is left other than her sense of humour.
Guant has is share and many of his Regiment have lovers, wives, children
Kal Jerico does
Cains fav Regiment does - he even sites the related issues that can arise with mixed sex regiments as a bit of a pain.
The Inquistor and the Psyker in Scourge the Heretic were previously lovers - in the same novel it talks about the Redemptionists being celebate but this is noted as being fanaticial and unusual
An offcer and unit psyker are lovers in Gunheads Tallaran novel

and so on - like so many things in 40K the relationship to sex will be complex and related to upbringing and how your home world, city, Regiment etc views it. Some may see it as a sin - others that propogation is a duty to the Emperor and any pleasure gained a gift from Him.......

Re the Sisters - its very likely they are celibate - they were certainly abused as concubines by Vandire as the "Brides of the Emperor" and that humiliation is likely still felt. Everyopne in the Imperium (including Cain) assumes that they are celebate.................they are very big on pleasure is bad

Gaunt wasn't inducted until he was 12. Technically I'm a bit iffy about how orphaned Gaunt was, sure daddy and mommy was dead. But he was living with aunite and the family chef. Heck he has had a better childhood than people I know.

The best 40K romance is in Double Eagle between a pilot and a woman factory worker, IMO. Very touching, and gave you a feel for the lives of ordinary people. Much more interesting than hearing about various superbeings.

It's tiresome hearing about the various gory ways things die. I like more the personality things. The best parts of The Founding was the flashbacks. I really loved them. Of course some violence shall be involved.

I also sort of developed two commissars myself who are happy in a relationship (they came together at the schoola), they later forcefully marries the sister of the male to a guy, she ends up happily married, a Cannoness, Planetary Ruler (with her mate) and having a lot of kids.

Actually, in the Cain books, it says that the sisters don't have to be celibate but most of them are too busy praying/scourging heretics/getting killed by the GK

Ma55ter_fett wrote:A lot of people keep saying that space marines are neutered in one way or another but I've never seen it written elsewhere.
Does it say so in one of the Black Library books or something?

I don't recall ever having read it anywhere - it seems to be one of those "community opinions" often presented as fact. There's a number of instances in novels where a Marine would have a chance of engaging a woman but doesn't, which commonly gets interpreted this way (for example, I think someone mentioned a Horus Heresy book where some girl saw a naked Space Marine and she was like "aw, such a waste" or something), just like members of the "Marines need to have dicks!" faction like to interpret some line (a SW "making a pass" at some woman in the SW Codex) in the way that they could do sex. So it all hinges on your perception.

Personally, I think it would make a lot of sense to have them neutered, though, given that the Emperor would not want them to have a "functioning package" anyways. Space Marines are not only warriors first and foremost, they are warriors only - raised and bred purely for battle and not having the luxury of possibly allowing their dicks to distract them from combat, nor do I believe that the Emperor would wish to risk Marines breeding with the population, as this would take control of the geneseed away from Terra and enable rogue Marines to raise as many troops as they'd want. Someone also mentioned that the Emperor saw the Astartes as a temporary measure to win the Great Crusade and that they were meant to fade away into history once all was done, and that he did not want them to replace normal humans (which would happen over time were they to breed, as they are biologically superior).

Then, there's also the matter of biology and mechanics. Given all the chemicals and pseudo-steroids the Marines are pumped full with, I wouldn't be surprised if their package were to atrophy as it happens to bodybuilders who manage to knock their hormone ratio out of balance. Finally, again going by GW, their power armour comes with a waste recycler, and the urine tube needs to be plugged in somewhere. Given the small aversion the 40k setting has as a whole concerning plugging stuff into their bodies, guess what would make the most sense when some piece of organic material isn't required for the soldier's function?

But this, too, is something where everybody needs to make up their own opinion. I'm merely pointing out that Marines are extensively modified and tailored for a singular purpose in life, and that said purpose doesn't really involve sticking it into wimmenz. Also makes becoming a Space Marine somewhat more grimdark, I think, as it takes away another bit of their humanity.

Brother Coa wrote:The only exception I know about is that retired Sister from Cain novels... ( of course, before that I didn't know that pension is possible for them at all ).

Sisters do not really "retire", much like medieval nuns didn't - the Liber Sororitas only notes that they transfer from one Order to the other when they get older and are no longer fit for certain duties. Doesn't take much wit or physical strength to take a post in the librarium eyeing all the young novices tho.

The Cain books are just a - warning, personal opinion following - really piss-poor depiction of the Sororitas, Commissars and the Schola in general. The author either did not bother to read up on the source material or did not care about it when writing his satire, and it shows by a number of contradictions. Wasn't that (ex?)-Sister even an instructor in the Schola? One should think that the teachers there are particularly strict and carefully chosen when purity is such a highly valued good. Not to mention that characters who have lived their entire life in a convent, forsaking physical pleasures out of an obligation to their faith, don't simply drop all that even IF they ever retire.
There's quite simply a lot of stuff not making sense in those books when looking at other 40k material, which is why I cringe every time they are even mentioned in a fluff discussion.

"The lifestyle of the teachers and pupils is strict and puritan."
- 2E C:SoB

Alas, as with all 40k fluff, even these books would be a valid interpretation of the setting if one were to prefer them. Of course, doing so would mean having to dismiss a lot of the studio's own material to avoid the contradictions.

Beaviz81 wrote:No there ain't any policy on the issue about Sisters of Battle having sex, [...]

If we would go by GW fluff, I wouldn't be so sure about this. They have a ton of rules (the WD Liber Sororitas gives a few examples, with the highest-numbered rule being #785 from volume 12 of the "Rule of Sororitas" series of tomes), and given that they do practice "constant hardship, deprivation and arduous work" (Codex Imperialis) as part of their sacrifice to the Emperor, it stands to reason that the neglect of physical pleasures is amongst them.

So just because some crap novel goes against all the stuff written by GW themselves, a "no" sounds a bit absolute. If at all one would have to acknowledge that the sources differ depending on who wrote them. Sadly, this applies to a lot of fluff in 40k, which is entirely intended as per the ones who manage the brand.

Beaviz81 wrote:Ain't the blood of Space Marines poisonous? Wouldn't that like disintegrate the womb of the woman they had sex with?

you do not ejaculate blood. If you do, you should really see a doctor.

Anyway, I always thought the Imperium will treat sex as an extremely taboo topic, and would only condone it if its for strictly reproductive reasons. A bit like in the middle ages.

Well there's a whole load of people in the Imperium. 100 billion on a single hive world, say.
To paraphrase Bill Hicks: "Well, we're all here...someone's been [Mod Edit - No expletives, please!]' "
Can't make a human without sex.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:Ain't the blood of Space Marines poisonous? Wouldn't that like disintegrate the womb of the woman they had sex with?

you do not ejaculate blood. If you do, you should really see a doctor.

SOMEONE lacks knowledge of bodily functions... BADLY.

Well the Space Marine blood might be poisonous, so the sperm is likely as well. It's a bad thing if your sperm eats up the womb of your latest fuckee. I was actually just trying to be classy about the whole sha-blang.

As for humans without sex, go read about Krieg.

Melissa, it doesn't state expressively that sex is a no-no. It can be taken that way of course, but also the Sisters of Battle seem to be based on the Fishspeakers from Dune, and they had husbands. For me, I go for the widest possible interpretation at every corner. But read Dune, and the Sororitas really are based on them. Of course it's an open debate whether or not they can have sex. My policy is simple: It varies.

Celebacy in the name of the Emperor ("I cleave only unto the Emperor", an oath taken by both men and women oddly enough) is considered acceptable and even good in Imperial society. THough usually it also involves being castrated in the first place ("chem gelt", indicating it's a one-time chemical treatment that removes that urge from your body entirely).

Joey wrote:Well there's a whole load of people in the Imperium. 100 billion on a single hive world, say.
To paraphrase Bill Hicks: "Well, we're all here...someone's been fuckin' "
Can't make a human without sex.

As I said, reproductive reasons.
But yeah, you make a good point.

@Beaviz
Why would the semen be poisonous if the blood is?
Does it specify why the blood is poisonous? Is it due to a protein, Ph, whatever? And does it say "blood" or bodily fluids?

Ehm I can see the validity of your argument Melissa, I just think service of the Emperor happens in a lot of ways. It doesn't go against fluff if a SOB marries and has loads of children in my mind, and mind you, nuns IRL rarely exhibit the angry traits of the angry nuns. The closest there were the Sarmartian women who had to kill to marry (a concept I sort of wanted to use).

Seriously Cthulusspy and TheRobotlol it was from Ciaphas Cain, and seconded by Amberley Veil, but diseases who transfer through blood also does the same through intercourse. How old are you again? Didn't they teach you basic biology at school?