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True

For what its worth the bit In Necromunda (which seems the primary source for them?) says:

"Sin must be purged from the race by fire, blood and faith.

Sin comes in many forms:

Drinking, Gambling, lying, cheating, profanity, lechery, fornication (even thinking about fornication is sinful) and shooting innocent hardworking folk like Redmeptionists."

Mr Morden wrote:True

For what its worth the bit In Necromunda (which seems the primary source for them?) says:

"Sin must be purged from the race by fire, blood and faith.

Sin comes in many forms:

Drinking, Gambling, lying, cheating, profanity, lechery, fornication (even thinking about fornication is sinful) and shooting innocent hardworking folk like Redmeptionists."

That me and the rest of DakaDaka going up in flames then.

TheRobotLol wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Agent_Tremolo wrote:Beaviz, mate, I can't think of a single tactical situation in which acid semen can be of any use...

Tell that to noise marines

Heh Heh Heh.

You, gentlemen, are evil.

*Produces his bolt pistol*



MrMorden: I had somehow pictured the Sisters of the Orders Famulous as wizened hags with an encyclopedic knowledge of all things imperial, from history and tradition to seemingly frivolous palace gossip but, now you mention it, probably acting as procuresses or match-makers is not beyond their abilities.

Actually it's specifically described as one of their duties. They play matchamker with nobles, attemping to arrange marriages which encourages peace amongst nobility.

It works to a point, nobility will always be underhanded bastards in 40k after all, but at least there's few instances of open war.

Also, Famulous are depicted as the most attractive and fashion-sensitive of the Sisters in Dark Heresy, likely due to dealing with nobility.

Agreed - its 40K there will be attractive, manipulative Famoulous and also more Adept like Sisters. The Sororitas will send the most appropriate woman to get the job done.

Also as I don't see why some daughters of the nobility with the right temprement could not be dispatched to the Sororitas and they they may reatain specalist knowledge and connections .... once suitably enlightened they would be a useful assest for the Sisterhood.

Tadashi wrote:Obviously, 'abhor the deviant' being a given, homosexuality, bisexuality, and other non-mainline sexual ideas and relationships are not tolerated without incurring the risk of Inquisitorial investigation.

To hell with that bs.

As far as I'm concerned, the Imperium should stick to the bigotry that actually makes sense for the setting - hatred of Chaos-worshipping heretics, Warp-tapping witches and various genocidal aliens. There's a clear path by which the Imperium could backslide into such (well deserved) prejudices. In contrast, there's nothing there to compel an advanced civilisation that has been free of homophobia for 20,000 years to go back to being a bunch of prudish neo-Catholics.

To borrow from Terry Pratchet: "Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green."

Also, with the Sisters, I say the most important rule would be "don't get pregnant" (as derived from "don't let it interfere with your duties"), not "don't have sex, ever".

The problem is that nine out of ten non-vicious genocidal xenos are actually vicious genocidal daemons who are trying to be subversive.

Heretics also rarely show themselves openly until they are able to cause some real gak.

Funny thing is that I thought of Discworld too. :lol:

AlexHolker wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Obviously, 'abhor the deviant' being a given, homosexuality, bisexuality, and other non-mainline sexual ideas and relationships are not tolerated without incurring the risk of Inquisitorial investigation.

To hell with that bs.

As far as I'm concerned, the Imperium should stick to the bigotry that actually makes sense for the setting - hatred of Chaos-worshipping heretics, Warp-tapping witches and various genocidal aliens. There's a clear path by which the Imperium could backslide into such (well deserved) prejudices. In contrast, there's nothing there to compel an advanced civilisation that has been free of homophobia for 20,000 years to go back to being a bunch of prudish neo-Catholics.
.

And in keeping with the Roman aspect of the setting it would be natural and expected in some circles.

I amdead serious about Marines 'initiating the scouts'.

According to several bits of fluff, as well as the Liber Chaotica books, homosexuality is not considered a heresy in the Imperium.

Psienesis wrote:According to several bits of fluff, as well as the Liber Chaotica books, homosexuality is not considered a heresy in the Imperium.

Yay! I'm safe from the gaze of the Inqustion and the Church
But then it does beg the quetion of "What would get their attention?"?

Bestiality, necrophilia, sex with servitors, sex with your lasgun "Lucille", sex with the xeno, sex with the mutant (varies by planet and type of mutant, abhuman or Corrupt), and so forth and so on.

I would think that since the Imperium was founded upon the principle of humanity being the most dominate race in the universe, and "the perfection of the human form", that sex as a rule across the Empire would be a non-issue if not encouraged. I mean, the sea of guardsmen have to come from somewhere after all.

It would just very by world, just like it varies by country, state or even city here on earth (and, of course, which religious cult you find yourself a part of). Mainstream Imperial society will have Taboos, while Deathcult members will most likely be far more strict on the issues, etc.

Hmm, or not... Deathcults are really weird. They could have a whole Thanateros (Thanatos [Death] + Eros [Sex]) thing going on... which is why they wear those skintight black latex bodygloves and carry knives and swords, which are athame, which are phallic symbols.

imho SoB are celibate because they are consecrated to the emperors service.

and Gaunt had sex with an other commissar/ resistance fighter on Gereon.

as for SM when they receive the black Carapace doesn't it implanted over the marines torso's ?

i always thought it goes over there whole torso too which includes the groin. thus they can't.

but if they did it would probably shatter the hips of there partner.....

Beaviz81 wrote:The GW-version never actually mentions that they swear vows of chastity Lynata, the nearest is chastised, and that's punishment. Plus I don't think all Sisters of Battle are Redemptionists.

Sisters are Sisters - they do not follow any of the usual Ecclesiarchal tendencies but their own, and each of them is raised with exactly the same belief, in exactly the same curriculum, with exactly the same values drilled into their manipulable little heads, so I don't see how they could possibly differ much from each other aside from the usual personal interpretations of said values.

GW fluff doesn't have to specify vows of chastity because it pretty much points it out anyways. Sex is pleasure, pleasure is a no-go. Sex is also a distraction from their duties, which is a no-go as well. As is referenced in the fluff I quoted above. It's as simple as that.
And really, babies? Why in the Emperor's name would they need to do that? The Imperium is chock-full of ordinary women and certainly there is no shortage of bodies for the grinder, including new progena for the Schola. It simply doesn't make sense to take a highly trained warrior of the Orders Militant out of active duty for several months for the sole reason to produce offspring when there's no shortage to begin with. Same with the non-militant Orders. Their skills are needed elsewhere, as they're more than a womb and a set of DNA.

Now, I'm not saying you couldn't go ahead and still follow your perception of the setting, as any of us is free to pursue their own interpretation - I'm just saying that the stuff written by GW themselves is pretty clear on the subject.

Mr Morden wrote:Actually IMO there are not................there is one character depicted that tends to cause these discussions [...]

It should be at least two, and I know as much simply going by what I hear about them on these forums. There's no way I could see a coward becoming a Commissar, for such position is reserved for the worthy and most martially inclined. A progena unwilling to fight on the battlefields of the 41st millennium actually does not have to do so, as the Schola would simply enroll him in the Administratum to become a lowly civilian scribe, or at the very worst send him to the Imperial Guard. If a case like Cain were to be possible, the discipline of the entire Imperial Guard would be threatened.

Personally, I think it'd be best to take that novel as what it probably was meant for: a satire. Nobody assumes that series like "MASH" or "Hogan's Heroes" were an accurate depiction of life in the military, so why should there be a difference with novels when they are clearly written in a tongue-in-cheek tone?

Mr Morden wrote:in fact far more so than a number of other BL novels............ and I have read almost all of them..

That's because most BL novels do a poor job in depicting them in general, as they're most often either used as cheap adversaries or perhaps simple add-ons to the story where it just seems as if the author didn't get them right because he didn't bother to look up all their fluff, as they only show up in a single scene anyways. The only good BL stories with Sisters I've read so far were Daemonifuge, Faith & Fire, Hammer & Anvil and the two shorts The Invitation and Daemonblood. Of course this is a purely subjective matter, and I'm sure my expectations on an author writing Sisters stuff is higher than most other readers'. But be that as it may, the Cain books rank amongst the least I would recommend to anyone wishing to read up on the Sororitas, simply because the depiction of that Schola Progenium teacher so fundamentally goes against the entire spirit of the army that you'd think they are Guardswomen in power armour.
Again, look at their description in the 3E rulebook and tell me it doesn't clash with the Cain books, and strongly so.

Mr Morden wrote:I can say that Mr Mitchel does read up on the material having had the pleasure of meeting the author on one occcassion and discussing things like research.

So he chose to disregard the 2E Codex deliberately. Well, it's somewhat better than simply not bothering to look at the source material at all, I guess.

Mr Morden wrote:Also as I don't see why some daughters of the nobility with the right temprement could not be dispatched to the Sororitas and they they may reatain specalist knowledge and connections

Because they'd send the girl to the normal Church instead, I reckon. Sisters are Schola orphans, this kind of upbringing is their chief defence against corruption and the reason they are the most loyal force of the Imperium right after the Grey Knights. Unless you (once again) look to the licensed material where they may indeed take in "outsiders", for whatever reason.

As long as we all understand that sphess mahreens don't have sex, we can all move on happily.

Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Actually IMO there are not................there is one character depicted that tends to cause these discussions [...]

It should be at least two, and I know as much simply going by what I hear about them on these forums. There's no way I could see a coward becoming a Commissar, for such position is reserved for the worthy and most martially inclined. A progena unwilling to fight on the battlefields of the 41st millennium actually does not have to do so, as the Schola would simply enroll him in the Administratum to become a lowly civilian scribe, or at the very worst send him to the Imperial Guard. If a case like Cain were to be possible, the discipline of the entire Imperial Guard would be threatened.

Personally, I think it'd be best to take that novel as what it probably was meant for: a satire. Nobody assumes that series like "MASH" or "Hogan's Heroes" were an accurate depiction of life in the military, so why should there be a difference with novels when they are clearly written in a tongue-in-cheek tone?.

Cain is not a Coward - he says he is but he is not - although one of the inspirations is the Flashman novels - he is very different in personality. He does plenty of fighting (and is excellent with a sword) but part of the humour is that he keeps trying to find a nice quiet position and failing usually having to fight his way out - very effectively.

Lynata wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:in fact far more so than a number of other BL novels............ and I have read almost all of them..

That's because most BL novels do a poor job in depicting them in general, as they're most often either used as cheap adversaries or perhaps simple add-ons to the story where it just seems as if the author didn't get them right because he didn't bother to look up all their fluff, as they only show up in a single scene anyways. The only good BL stories with Sisters I've read so far were Daemonifuge, Faith & Fire, Hammer & Anvil and the two shorts The Invitation and Daemonblood. Of course this is a purely subjective matter, and I'm sure my expectations on an author writing Sisters stuff is higher than most other readers'. But be that as it may, the Cain books rank amongst the least I would recommend to anyone wishing to read up on the Sororitas, simply because the depiction of that Schola Progenium teacher so fundamentally goes against the entire spirit of the army that you'd think they are Guardswomen in power armour. Again, look at their description in the 3E rulebook and tell me it doesn't clash with the Cain books, and strongly so..

As I keep saying, the numerous other Sororitas characters in the book match exactly the descriptions and source material............
Sister Julian was obviously put in for a specific reason and is counter to every other Sororitas in the books - which I feel was the point.
Re "Simply Guardswomen in power armour" again nope, absolutely not how they are described..........again they are described very much as beacons of faith to all that encounter them and all who encounter them are very respectful of both their prowess in combat (Cain questions their tatical overview but even he is impressed by their prowess in battle) and their devotion.

Mr Morden wrote:Sister Julian was obviously put in for a specific reason and is counter to every other Sororitas in the books - which I feel was the point.

So what exactly WAS the point?

People keep complaining about Goto's Space Marines, but going by what I've heard this character is seriously not any better. Rather even worse. Especially since people keep pulling her as "proof" for Sisters being free to sleep around.

Cain isn't a coward, he just has a severe case of self-doubt and overly criticises himself.

Anyway, the sister in Cain's Last Stand was probably Mitchell's first attempt to create a likable religious character so I have to cut him some slack, even if the result was facepalm-inducing.

I remember hearing a joke about the Ordo Erecticus. 'The Emperor protects!'

There's no such thing as canon in the WH40K verse according to Gav Thorpe, so hell. Sisters of Battle are probably super promiscuous, and fight in bondage.

BlaxicanX wrote:There's no such thing as canon in the WH40K verse according to Gav Thorpe.

I think that there are canons in 40k. Leman Russ tanks have them, as well as Titans...

Brother Coa wrote:

BlaxicanX wrote:There's no such thing as canon in the WH40K verse according to Gav Thorpe.

I think that there are canons in 40k. Leman Russ tanks have them, as well as Titans...

You are thinking of cannon there

Canon = fluff

Cannon = weapon

Oh, so it's the other way around...?
Sorry....

I think it's safe to take the stance that Sisters are celibate. Adeptus Mechanicus would be celibate inasmuch as most of their bodies aren't organic, and those who retain mostly squishy bodies would consider the flesh, and its pleasures, weak and contemptible. As for the Schola, well... the students are segregated along gender lines, but that doesn't guarantee celibacy... at least, not permanently. I'm sure graduates of the Schola programs can get their freak on after graduation, provided they haven't transfered into a celibate organization (ie; the Sisters)... I have no difficulty believing that Commissars can have sex. They are just Soviet-era Kommissars (IN SPAAACE), I'm sure those guys had sex once in a while...

I don't buy into the whole "Space Marines have atrophied genitals" thing. I can see them being celibate, just like the Sisters (and indeed, like the medieval warrior-monk groups they are patterned after) but having their dangly bits removed chemically? Not a chance. For a start, the historical inspiration for SM didn't have a habit of castration. Secondly, it is heavily implied in the SW codex that Space Wolves go carousing and drinking. If memory serves, I think one of the stories about a SW in the codex mentions him being found by his subordinates in a bed with several women. Not a likely place to be if his dong was disabled (or maybe he's just a really, really good... orator )... Though I may be misremembering that.
As for controling the geneseed through implantation, I think it has been stated (a long time ago... maybe 2nd edition) that geneseed traits cannot be passed through reproduction, which is why Marines have to undergo the implantation process...
Lastly, why would all those Marines turn to worshipping Slaanesh if their little scouts weren't saluting? What's the point of joining the God of Debauchery if you don't have anything to get properly debauched with? Sure, you can drink to excess, but there's more to debauchery than alcohol poisoning. And don't say that the first thing Slaanesh gives his SM followers is a wang... if Marines are chem gelded and have atrophied, unworking weiners how would they know that they want a wang that works? They've done without dangly bits since before they hit puberty...
Slaanesh: Join me and I will grant you every pleasure known to man! And a few that are unknown, but still pretty kewl. And I can give you a working wang!
Prospective Traitor Marine: What does that mean?
Slaanesh: I can make your tool work...
PTM: Yeah, I mean, what does "working" mean? All it normally does is kinda wilt there.
Slaanesh: You can do more than urinate out of it, kid!
PTM: Wait, you can urinate out of it? I never knew that. I have this tube in my armor, you see...
Slaanesh: Ew. But no, there are other uses! All of them naughty! You can use it on women!
PTM: Why would I want to urinate on a woman?
Slaanesh: Ummm... that's not what I meant, kid. That's more of the "Advanced" debauchery class, you're still a beginner. I'm talking about sex.
PTM: What about sex? I'm a male.
Slaanesh: No, I mean "sex" not "gender"... Sex is a thing you do, gender is a thing you are.
PTM: Really? I never knew that. I guess this Chaos thing is a lot more complicated than I thought. I was just looking for a quick thrill, but maybe I should reconsider...
Slaanesh: I can't believe I gave up a lucrative career in tranny porn for this gig...

Or something along those lines...
Where was I? I forget? Oh yeah, SM have dangly bits; they work fine, but they are discouraged from using them in the same manner that Sisters are discouraged from using their womanly parts. Most Marines aren't interested in sex, as it distracts them from kicking @$$ for the Emperor. Except for possibly the Space Wolves, who are based on vikings, who had a lot of sex, historically speaking.

squidhills wrote:PTM: What about sex? I'm a male.
Slaanesh: No, I mean "sex" not "gender"... Sex is a thing you do, gender is a thing you are.

Actually, in strict sociological terms:
Sex = what's down there.
Gender = behaviour/identity.

squidhills wrote:Though I may be misremembering that.

I think you do. What I remember from the SW Codex is one of 'em "making a pass at a woman", whatever that may mean.
Also, Slaanesh isn't only about sex, though sexual lust is (unsurprisingly) the best way to corrupt people.

That being said, I don't think GW will ever comment on the subject one way or the other - it's the best way to not annoy either camp. For what it's worth, it shouldn't have any impact on Marine behavior either way, so it's not even an important topic. If you want a laugh, however, FFG's Deathwatch RPG forums have 14 pages of a thread dedicated to the question of whether or not a Space Marine can have sex.

Lynata wrote:dedicated to the question of whether or not a Space Marine can have sex.

e____e

My sanity.
It
just
disappeared

The Jackalwolf. He rocks, twelve women in one night before he got to be a Space Wolf. Wait a minute, now shouldn't the police show up?