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 TheMeanDM wrote:
Any advice on holsters for concealed carry of a ruger Security 9...?

Just don't know much about holsters and manufacturers.

Will be thinking of adding either a laser or light/laser combo to it at some point...if that makes a difference too.

I'm a fan of Vedder Holsters. Reasonably priced Kydex, and they have Ruger Security 9 holsters. They have options for IWB, OWB, and magazine holsters. Their belts are good as well.

If you go with a Kydex holster and are going to add a laser or a light, you will need a holster that is molded for that gun with a laser/light.

Anyone use a 22LR/410 combi? Thinking a youth model along those lines might be a good addition.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Never really stopped. Of course I can shoot in my backyard.

I am eternally jealous of people who can shoot on their property. My choices are the public range, which is free but also a mosquito and garbage filled dump full of dangerous morons, or the indoor range which is pistol only. :(

 Ouze wrote:
a mosquito and garbage filled dump full of dangerous morons

What's this about twitter? ROFL Sorry, couldn't resist.

 Ouze wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Never really stopped. Of course I can shoot in my backyard.

I am eternally jealous of people who can shoot on their property. My choices are the public range, which is free but also a mosquito and garbage filled dump full of dangerous morons, or the indoor range which is pistol only. :(

There's a few indoor ranges in my area (DFW) that I've seen people shoot AR variants at, but those may have been the 'pistol' variety. I don't see the appeal in that specific firearm as a pistol. I inherited quite a few high caliber shotguns for small game hunting (birds), but I don't hunt so they're sort of just there. I have a Smith and Wesson 629 for self defense which is sort of overkill, but I wanted something that could theoretically take down larger animals if necessary when hiking.

I've been looking at getting a Sig Sauer P365 for concealed carry.

The appeal is “I want an SBR but don’t wanna do the paperwork”

Why are you after a .410/.22 combo?
Truck gun? Serious bugout? survival? Prep for the end of world? Zombpocalypse? Recent unrest?

A .410/.22 combo would only be good for survival (hunting, etc.). Not a suitable combo for much beyond that.

 Elbows wrote:
A .410/.22 combo would only be good for survival (hunting, etc.). Not a suitable combo for much beyond that.

I could use one for pest control. It would take care of the copperheads/rattlers and the nasty squirrels eating through the plastic of my feed bins and destroying horse and goat feed.

Yep, it's a good varmint combo, as long as someone isn't buying it for a self-defense gun or a bail-out gun

That was sort of the conversation I was trying to spark. All I know is that when I have seen the .22/.410 combos they have been quite expensive for something that doesn't pack up near as easily or as compactly as an Henry AR7.

They are sort of a gimmick gun for minimalist survivalist fudds. People who want to be prepared but also don’t want to get a “real”’ gun for some reason. And/or they are one of those people who have a hard fetish for .22s and .410s.

Oh it's a completely okay survivalist style gun...as long as you don't plan on running into people...or anything bigger than a squirrel

I find .22LRs to basically fall into a couple categories: varmint guns for rabbits, snakes, mice, etc. Guns for teaching kids, or a training firearm for new shooters or kids. Also...apparently they're pretty popular for hitmen in other countries, but as a useful tool - not the best.

As a defensive firearm? Even worse. I think a large appeal factor is the availability of break-down rifles that you can carry cheap ammo around, etc.

Indeed mainly because of the iffy lethality of 22.

It’s dangerous, but it probably won’t kill someone quickly if it does at all. The only reason I suspect it’s popular with European hitmen is because it’s easier to get 22 ammo as opposed to real calibers in Europe.

It’s certainly more likely to just piss off someone who is attacking you.

Keep in mind, .22lr kills more people than any other cartridge in the US. Granted that's simply due to volume of use, and that's not to say it's really an ideal load for anything other than plinking/training or for use against very small game, but it's absolutely capable of inflicting a lethal wound. You don't need much power or penetration ability to sever a major artery, puncture a trachea, etc and a direct angle impact will absolutely penetrate a skull at self defense ranges, they're used frequently in animal slaughter for exactly that on animals as large as adult pigs.

A .22 has just enough energy to penetrate a skull and not quite enough to penetrate the other side, so it's gonna bounce around in there a bit. Definitely a stopper with good shot placement.

A Cree woman one-shotted a grizzly bear with a 22 Long, which actually has less energy than .22LR..

Yep, I'd never argue that .22LR is not capable of killing someone (read a bunch of studies on gunshot wounds/lethality and you find out it's a bizarre and unknown science!), but when I think of a defensive firearm, the ability to stop someone - not to kill them, is the main concern.

Bleeding out from a minor gunshot wound is lethal, but it's not effective. Lungs, spine, heart, and last choice; head....are where you need to go to actually stop someone. That's where the tiny calibers struggle (against humans of course!).

 Grey Templar wrote:

It’s dangerous, but it probably won’t kill someone quickly if it does at all. The only reason I suspect it’s popular with European hitmen is because it’s easier to get 22 ammo as opposed to real calibers in Europe.

It's popular with hitmen in the US as well, depending on your needs. The pros of the 22 is that it's easily concealable, quiet, and harder to trace. You have better control of a small pistol in 22 than your would with a larger caliber. So, if you have to eliminate a target close up and in public, it has it's advantages. That said, I can think of at least one assassin that had a bad experience with them failing to penetrate the skull.

 Elbows wrote:
Yep, I'd never argue that .22LR is not capable of killing someone (read a bunch of studies on gunshot wounds/lethality and you find out it's a bizarre and unknown science!), but when I think of a defensive firearm, the ability to stop someone - not to kill them, is the main concern.

Right. I'm defending 22LR as lethal, but I actually carry 9mm +P hollowpoints. I would never trust 22LR defensively if I had almost any other option, because I don't trust myself to have absolutely perfect shot placement in a stressful situation.

My idea is the kid can walk the property and nail whatever nuisance varmit or bird he runs into with one gun. Nothing more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 trexmeyer wrote:

There's a few indoor ranges in my area (DFW) that I've seen people shoot AR variants at, but those may have been the 'pistol' variety. I don't see the appeal in that specific firearm as a pistol. I inherited quite a few high caliber shotguns for small game hunting (birds), but I don't hunt so they're sort of just there. I have a Smith and Wesson 629 for self defense which is sort of overkill, but I wanted something that could theoretically take down larger animals if necessary when hiking.

Just my perspective, I run an 5.56 11.5 inch barrel on an SBR and on a pistol frame. The shorter barrell is to offset the weight and ballance of the suppressor I run it with while still having good defense terminal effects out to 100 yards with the ammo I use. I prefer the SBR for the stability the stock offers. Mostly use the pistol lower as a place to park such uppers when swapping them out, say for example with an 8" 300 BLK upper also running the suppressor.

For some folks there is a perk in being able to carry the rifle in a smaller package, or being able to travel interstate with it without a permission slip. Without debating the merit, I can see the rationale and say "whatever floats your goat".

I do happen to love my 7" 22lr AR pistol my kid uses. It's a great way to familiarize people with the basics of the platform without the weight and blast of the full size 16"+ AR. Also great cheap trigger training.

Not for everyone, but I like the diversity of options.

There was a hitman fail once where he shot a guy in the head, but not strait on. kind of far to one side. The bullet penatrated the skin, but not the skull, and it literally circled around the guy's head.

Deleted.

The first time Hopper shot a man in the head it did that. He dropped the guy at a hospital and told him to keep his mouth shut.

Deleted.

Quicker to ask here than fumbling google.

Avengers Endgame. What is the rifle that Bucky is using? And is set up for us left handers?

Its an M249 set up to accept box magazines instead of a belt. And the mag is some obscure 60 rounder that I hear is a jamming nightmare. Normally I believe the M249 box mag conversion accepts normal M4 mags.

edit; Here it is

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Avengers:_Infinity_War#M249_Paratrooper_SAW

M249 Paratrooper SAW

Using a SureFire 100 round casket magazine


The M249S is the civy version.

https://fnamerica.com/products/rifles/fn-m249s/

$8,500 but its available now

Deleted.

Yeah, if they were a third the price...I'd think about it, just for giggles (same way I've considered one of the Tommybuilt T36's), but at $8500, that's no bueno.

It'd be an awesome range toy though, even semiauto.

I really do wonder why certain guns are so damn expensive. I don't care what minor performance benefits it might have over a similar firearm, if it costs 5-8 times as much its not worth it.

I think FN, HK, and other big name firearm companies are sinking way too much money into RnD costs for new firearms that yields little to no practical advantages, only driving the prices up.

The development costs are part of it. For a lot of stuff (like the SCAR), I know FN basically only makes commercial production runs between military contracts, and they know whatever limited number they make will sell pretty much not matter what, so they can charge whatever they want. HK I know has all sorts of issues with exporting stuff due to both German export law and US import law, and getting anything to the States is always expensive, and they do like to overengineer stuff of course. Both also have extremely high labor costs relative to a lot of their competition in the commercial sphere (the people on the floor at Palmetto or Ruger for instance aren't making what the people on the floor at HK are making for example).

That said, the m249 is expensive because it's a big heavy complex piece of equipment. IIRC they cost $4-5k for the US military and they're buying them buy the thousands, for the small production runs of semiautos (that have a fair share of different parts for ATF compliance) it doesn't surprise me that they cost twice as much