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 Formosa wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I dont want slightly tweaked 7th ed rules, i want proper 8th ed conversion, with a redo of titan rules to make them not terrible in 8th.
Same here. I see no reason to jump in with an old ruleset.


if they do an 8th conversion then fine, as long as they also stick to the 1.0 HH ruleset, if the game completely goes to 8th, I will be sorely disapointed and stop playing HH/40k all together, and stick to modelling/painting, I understand people like 8th, but for me the theme and setting of 30k does not lend well to 8th blandification of the characters/rules.

See ya.
   
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Southeastern PA, USA

 Looky Likey wrote:
I can't see them going to 8th till they have finished publishing the main Black books, the desire to go to 8th seemed to end with Alan's passing, then the whole thing will be redone in 8th

Wouldn't surprise me to see FW start to move the HH Black books to the Siege sooner than people expect to tie in with the Siege books being released by BL. It still gives them 18 to 24 months to do so.

When was the last time FW or GW reprinted a rule book because they made mistakes with the actual rules? I can't see them reprinting 7.5, they'll just stick with FAQs.


Eighth? More like 12th or 13th by the time FW wraps things up. I suppose that it's *possible* that they skip ahead to the Siege and ignore every other space on their timeline. Doesn't seem very likely though, and IMO it's been established that FW is better left working at its own (often glacial) pace rather than trying to 'tie in'. Inferno missed the intended tie-in by months, AND was still clearly a rush job in the rules department.

I'm very, very unenthusiastic about 30K sticking with 7th. That decision killed most of my personal 30K momentum, and caused a lot of communities to dry up.


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Thing about note about never seen is that basically in 30k context it doesn't rule out anything whatsoever. All models that have had models pre fw series are already done so all fw primarch fits that description. Which, seeing response seems to have been 40k question, leads me to think it might be 40k answer after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
mononides wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I dont want slightly tweaked 7th ed rules, i want proper 8th ed conversion, with a redo of titan rules to make them not terrible in 8th.
Same here. I see no reason to jump in with an old ruleset.


if they do an 8th conversion then fine, as long as they also stick to the 1.0 HH ruleset, if the game completely goes to 8th, I will be sorely disapointed and stop playing HH/40k all together, and stick to modelling/painting, I understand people like 8th, but for me the theme and setting of 30k does not lend well to 8th blandification of the characters/rules.

See ya.


Seeing 8th ed hh isn't coming he's here to stay. Thank god. 8th is such a joke as a game good thing hh stays as serious game

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/22 19:54:43


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mononides wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I dont want slightly tweaked 7th ed rules, i want proper 8th ed conversion, with a redo of titan rules to make them not terrible in 8th.
Same here. I see no reason to jump in with an old ruleset.


if they do an 8th conversion then fine, as long as they also stick to the 1.0 HH ruleset, if the game completely goes to 8th, I will be sorely disapointed and stop playing HH/40k all together, and stick to modelling/painting, I understand people like 8th, but for me the theme and setting of 30k does not lend well to 8th blandification of the characters/rules.

See ya.


That reply doesn’t make any sense, because they aren’t going to 8th, not for the foreseeable future anyway.
   
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 ImAGeek wrote:
mononides wrote:


That reply doesn’t make any sense, because they aren’t going to 8th, not for the foreseeable future anyway.


This is exactly the reason I'm not getting into 30k until they unclusterf*#k the rules and bring them into 8th.

BTW I love the forge world stuff I bought.
   
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mononides wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I dont want slightly tweaked 7th ed rules, i want proper 8th ed conversion, with a redo of titan rules to make them not terrible in 8th.
Same here. I see no reason to jump in with an old ruleset.


if they do an 8th conversion then fine, as long as they also stick to the 1.0 HH ruleset, if the game completely goes to 8th, I will be sorely disapointed and stop playing HH/40k all together, and stick to modelling/painting, I understand people like 8th, but for me the theme and setting of 30k does not lend well to 8th blandification of the characters/rules.

See ya.


Well since there staying 7th, looks like "see ya" to you


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Racerguy180 wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
mononides wrote:


That reply doesn’t make any sense, because they aren’t going to 8th, not for the foreseeable future anyway.


This is exactly the reason I'm not getting into 30k until they unclusterf*#k the rules and bring them into 8th.

BTW I love the forge world stuff I bought.


I keep hearing this and must ask, can you specifically state what is cluster fethed with the base 7th rules?

This part isn't directed at you, but I also keep seeing idiots (and yep they are idiots), complain about 7th 30k because they assume it has the same issues that 7th 40k had, or they are 40k players that also played 30k and want to use there 30k armies in 40k (these people are not idiots).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/22 21:33:21


   
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I'll wait for the 8e rules as well. Until there, it doesn't harm to get some TS on the way

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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 gorgon wrote:
 Looky Likey wrote:
I can't see them going to 8th till they have finished publishing the main Black books, the desire to go to 8th seemed to end with Alan's passing, then the whole thing will be redone in 8th

Wouldn't surprise me to see FW start to move the HH Black books to the Siege sooner than people expect to tie in with the Siege books being released by BL. It still gives them 18 to 24 months to do so.

When was the last time FW or GW reprinted a rule book because they made mistakes with the actual rules? I can't see them reprinting 7.5, they'll just stick with FAQs.


Eighth? More like 12th or 13th by the time FW wraps things up. I suppose that it's *possible* that they skip ahead to the Siege and ignore every other space on their timeline. Doesn't seem very likely though, and IMO it's been established that FW is better left working at its own (often glacial) pace rather than trying to 'tie in'. Inferno missed the intended tie-in by months, AND was still clearly a rush job in the rules department.

I'm very, very unenthusiastic about 30K sticking with 7th. That decision killed most of my personal 30K momentum, and caused a lot of communities to dry up.



Lets be real here, sticking with 7th didn't cause many actual 30K communities to dry up at all. What it caused to dry up was people using 30K armies to play 40K with. Now it sure sucks for those folk who could only get a game with those armies in that way, but they never had a healthy 30K community in the first place and they shouldn't be the primary consideration if 30K is actually supposed to be a thing of its own rather than just an afterthought for 40K players.

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 Yodhrin wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 Looky Likey wrote:
I can't see them going to 8th till they have finished publishing the main Black books, the desire to go to 8th seemed to end with Alan's passing, then the whole thing will be redone in 8th

Wouldn't surprise me to see FW start to move the HH Black books to the Siege sooner than people expect to tie in with the Siege books being released by BL. It still gives them 18 to 24 months to do so.

When was the last time FW or GW reprinted a rule book because they made mistakes with the actual rules? I can't see them reprinting 7.5, they'll just stick with FAQs.


Eighth? More like 12th or 13th by the time FW wraps things up. I suppose that it's *possible* that they skip ahead to the Siege and ignore every other space on their timeline. Doesn't seem very likely though, and IMO it's been established that FW is better left working at its own (often glacial) pace rather than trying to 'tie in'. Inferno missed the intended tie-in by months, AND was still clearly a rush job in the rules department.

I'm very, very unenthusiastic about 30K sticking with 7th. That decision killed most of my personal 30K momentum, and caused a lot of communities to dry up.



Lets be real here, sticking with 7th didn't cause many actual 30K communities to dry up at all. What it caused to dry up was people using 30K armies to play 40K with. Now it sure sucks for those folk who could only get a game with those armies in that way, but they never had a healthy 30K community in the first place and they shouldn't be the primary consideration if 30K is actually supposed to be a thing of its own rather than just an afterthought for 40K players.


Thank you, that is what I have been saying for ages, there are two kinds of 30k players, ones that play 30k and 40k players that play 40k with 30k armies, and it seems that it's the latter that wants 8th, a system that would woefully reflect 30k.

   
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I'm glad they are sticking with 7th, although they should have put more effort into modifying it more because it is THEIR ruleset now. 8th is as much of a clusterfeth atm and I don't see how the character rules or CC rules would make a better cinematic game for 30k.

If only the loyalist had CHARGED their rhinos at the traitors during the drop site massacre! They could have stopped their shooting... QQ.

The Primarchs would be totally out of control too or they'd completely suck depending on if they were 9 Wounds or 10+.

However the larger issues is why in the world would you want to rewrite EVERY SINGLE BOOK? That's absolutely insane and anyone who thinks thats a GOOD idea never really cared much for 30k IMO.

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 Formosa wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 Looky Likey wrote:
I can't see them going to 8th till they have finished publishing the main Black books, the desire to go to 8th seemed to end with Alan's passing, then the whole thing will be redone in 8th

Wouldn't surprise me to see FW start to move the HH Black books to the Siege sooner than people expect to tie in with the Siege books being released by BL. It still gives them 18 to 24 months to do so.

When was the last time FW or GW reprinted a rule book because they made mistakes with the actual rules? I can't see them reprinting 7.5, they'll just stick with FAQs.


Eighth? More like 12th or 13th by the time FW wraps things up. I suppose that it's *possible* that they skip ahead to the Siege and ignore every other space on their timeline. Doesn't seem very likely though, and IMO it's been established that FW is better left working at its own (often glacial) pace rather than trying to 'tie in'. Inferno missed the intended tie-in by months, AND was still clearly a rush job in the rules department.

I'm very, very unenthusiastic about 30K sticking with 7th. That decision killed most of my personal 30K momentum, and caused a lot of communities to dry up.



Lets be real here, sticking with 7th didn't cause many actual 30K communities to dry up at all. What it caused to dry up was people using 30K armies to play 40K with. Now it sure sucks for those folk who could only get a game with those armies in that way, but they never had a healthy 30K community in the first place and they shouldn't be the primary consideration if 30K is actually supposed to be a thing of its own rather than just an afterthought for 40K players.


Thank you, that is what I have been saying for ages, there are two kinds of 30k players, ones that play 30k and 40k players that play 40k with 30k armies, and it seems that it's the latter that wants 8th, a system that would woefully reflect 30k.


Well, what I KNOW is that there are many types of 30K players -- not two. And some of them care enough about the gameplay that they can clearly see all of the creakiness of and burdensome legacy issues with 7th edition. What's more, they can see the potential for 8th to be better for 30K than it is for 40K. That's the impetus behind the excellent fan-based 8th edition project.

There's also a faction of 30K players who seem most interested in displaying their (imagined) hobby superiority. The previous embarrassing low point for this group was when they loudly bemoaned the influx of new players from Betrayal at Calth...you know, new players actually growing communities. The horror. But they're in their full glory now, cheering on the exodus of players away from 7th edition 30K in some misguided idea that it'll reveal the 'true' 30K fans.

The worm may turn eventually. But for now, that sad faction has 'won', and is fully entitled to march down the avenue wearing their King Dork crowns and holding their scepters high. The rest of us are left only to shrug and go about our business.








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 gorgon wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
 Looky Likey wrote:
I can't see them going to 8th till they have finished publishing the main Black books, the desire to go to 8th seemed to end with Alan's passing, then the whole thing will be redone in 8th

Wouldn't surprise me to see FW start to move the HH Black books to the Siege sooner than people expect to tie in with the Siege books being released by BL. It still gives them 18 to 24 months to do so.

When was the last time FW or GW reprinted a rule book because they made mistakes with the actual rules? I can't see them reprinting 7.5, they'll just stick with FAQs.


Eighth? More like 12th or 13th by the time FW wraps things up. I suppose that it's *possible* that they skip ahead to the Siege and ignore every other space on their timeline. Doesn't seem very likely though, and IMO it's been established that FW is better left working at its own (often glacial) pace rather than trying to 'tie in'. Inferno missed the intended tie-in by months, AND was still clearly a rush job in the rules department.

I'm very, very unenthusiastic about 30K sticking with 7th. That decision killed most of my personal 30K momentum, and caused a lot of communities to dry up.



Lets be real here, sticking with 7th didn't cause many actual 30K communities to dry up at all. What it caused to dry up was people using 30K armies to play 40K with. Now it sure sucks for those folk who could only get a game with those armies in that way, but they never had a healthy 30K community in the first place and they shouldn't be the primary consideration if 30K is actually supposed to be a thing of its own rather than just an afterthought for 40K players.


Thank you, that is what I have been saying for ages, there are two kinds of 30k players, ones that play 30k and 40k players that play 40k with 30k armies, and it seems that it's the latter that wants 8th, a system that would woefully reflect 30k.


Well, what I KNOW is that there are many types of 30K players -- not two. And some of them care enough about the gameplay that they can clearly see all of the creakiness of and burdensome legacy issues with 7th edition. What's more, they can see the potential for 8th to be better for 30K than it is for 40K. That's the impetus behind the excellent fan-based 8th edition project.

There's also a faction of 30K players who seem most interested in displaying their (imagined) hobby superiority. The previous embarrassing low point for this group was when they loudly bemoaned the influx of new players from Betrayal at Calth...you know, new players actually growing communities. The horror. But they're in their full glory now, cheering on the exodus of players away from 7th edition 30K in some misguided idea that it'll reveal the 'true' 30K fans.

The worm may turn eventually. But for now, that sad faction has 'won', and is fully entitled to march down the avenue wearing their King Dork crowns and holding their scepters high. The rest of us are left only to shrug and go about our business.









No all the players fall into those broad categories, and still 8th 30kers still complain that "7th sucks" but have yet to explain why it sucks for 30k, it sucked for 40k due to formations etc. But worked absolutely fine for 30k because it was an already modified rule set. 8th does not fit the character of 30k for several reasons, non existent cover rules, combined with the large amount of firepower of 30k armies, equals bad idea, every centurion and up character would have WS2+, so apparently primarchs, centurions, all named characters are exactly the same in combat, it just comes down to who has re rolls... yawn, removal of flavour from weapons... just look at volkite in 40k... again yawn.

I like the fan based 30k project, as it lets those 40k players play 40k with there 30k armies, which is what they want, I want to play 30k with my 30k army, and it amazes me you drop a comment like "potential of 8th for 30k" (paraphrased) when you bluntly refuse to see the potential of forge world with 7th, double standards.

Ah the old "hobby superiority" argument, had that in fantasy for years, you know not once did I see an issue in real life, no hobby superiority, mostly just people wanting to try Horus heresy after calth came out and us older players welcoming them, but it's the internet, so it must be true...

And "exodus" of 30k players leaving? Can you prove that, or is it another bro fact? I bet it's the primarily 40k players carrying on with the new ed more than 30k players leaving in disgust, because the only time I have seen 30k players get really pissed off is when inferno dropped.

But hey, here's the real fact, you want to play 8th, use your space Marine models, make a 40k army that is basically the same (use special weapon squads as stand in hellblasters), you even have rules in 8th for 30k vehicles etc, then crack on playing 8th, if you want to play Horus Heresy, a different game system with different rules, then come on down, because at this point all the 40k crowd sound like "but necromunda has different rules to shadspire and I want to play with both"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/23 15:50:30


   
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... how exactly does this discusion have to do with FW news and rumours? If people want to complain about HH sticking to 7th or possibly changing to 8th, I feel like that would be more at home in a dedicated thread...?
   
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 Tyr13 wrote:
... how exactly does this discusion have to do with FW news and rumours? If people want to complain about HH sticking to 7th or possibly changing to 8th, I feel like that would be more at home in a dedicated thread...?


We're discussing news in a news thread?

But I suppose it would be better to move the discussion to another thread.

   
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I think ultimately they may have looked at it and seen that it would be much harder to turn 8th into a functioning wargame especially with the nuance to make the legions feel different given they all pull from a common pool of units at heart, than to make minor changes to 7th to get it to the position they want it.

Short version 8th would need a considerable amount of stuff adding to it, where 7th needed a bit of a trim here and there but was mostly good to go. Ultimately cutting stuff is easier than adding stuff and that the way they went.

7th at it's core is fine the bad bits fell in 2 camps gak codexs designed to sell models and armies that flat out ignored huge sections of the rules such as morale which other armies were built around using. They was some bloat at the end and.formatiins were flawed but again easy enough to prune or fix.
   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

SeanDrake wrote:
I think ultimately they may have looked at it and seen that it would be much harder to turn 8th into a functioning wargame especially with the nuance to make the legions feel different given they all pull from a common pool of units at heart, than to make minor changes to 7th to get it to the position they want it.

Short version 8th would need a considerable amount of stuff adding to it, where 7th needed a bit of a trim here and there but was mostly good to go. Ultimately cutting stuff is easier than adding stuff and that the way they went.

7th at it's core is fine the bad bits fell in 2 camps gak codexs designed to sell models and armies that flat out ignored huge sections of the rules such as morale which other armies were built around using. They was some bloat at the end and.formatiins were flawed but again easy enough to prune or fix.


Yup. People say Alan was excited to move things over to 8th, but by all accounts Alan was some kind of wizard who could churn out the workload of three or four mortal men without dropping his quality level - the kind of rewrite he must have been planning to bring 8th up to snuff likely just wasn't feasible without him, not in the medium term anyway.

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Sorry I missed, did Forgeworld recently explicitly say that 30k won't adopt a new ruleset for some time? How long?

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 axisofentropy wrote:
Sorry I missed, did Forgeworld recently explicitly say that 30k won't adopt a new ruleset for some time? How long?


No time scale given, but they’re releasing an age of darkness rulebook soon which is 7th edition rules with some minor tweaks.
   
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https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/searchResults?N=191608925+3803813951&utm_campaign=4588e44402-FW_25th_December_Age_of_Darkness&utm_source=forgeworld.co.uk&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a6ef0a01da-4588e44402-115873817

new rulebook !

...

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And out of stock. Who says hh died?

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Sold out already, emperor damn it that was quick. Print some more already FW.

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Shows up as in stock here!

Edit - Got my order in! Merry Christmas to me

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/25 14:05:34


 
   
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Sold out insanely fast, so much for "fans want 8th, 7th will kill the game"

   
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 reds8n wrote:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/searchResults?N=191608925+3803813951&utm_campaign=4588e44402-FW_25th_December_Age_of_Darkness&utm_source=forgeworld.co.uk&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a6ef0a01da-4588e44402-115873817

new rulebook !

...


Got mine!

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Got it in digital, since I wanted it NAO! The tribute to Alan Bligh at the start is quite appropriate
   
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Is there any reason to get it if I already have the 40k 7th edition rules?

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Yes. It contains alterations to the core ruleset, and presumably some useful HH-specific rules.



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 Nostromodamus wrote:
Is there any reason to get it if I already have the 40k 7th edition rules?


The rules aren't exactly the same, plus it has the weapon profiles for the HH weapons, and the USRs include several 30k specific ones. Psychic powers have been updated, and daemon summoning is modified. The missions and deployment types are not the same, either. Plus, all the great 30k art.

In short, if you play 30k, it's a required purchase.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/26 02:00:58


 
   
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