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I am putting together my command squad for Space Marines and want to know what you think.

First there job is as a close combat force to punch a hole in the bad guys line with the captian.

Here's the load out

Captian Artificers Armor Relic Blade Storm Bolter 148

Company champion power sword, combat shield and bolter
Apothecary Bolter and chain sword
Marine power sword and bolter
Marine power fist and storm bolter
Marine power fist and strom bolter

So what do you think?

command squads arent that great. If you want a cc monster, your better off swapping them out for 2 th/ss termies which is probably cheaper anyways.

Well, the storm bolters defeat the purpose because if your shooting those, your not running to get to assault. Personally I'd save the points; and while the power fists are a good idea remember your striking at I1 with those.

For a close combat unit there are three requirements.

Power weapons, for ignoring armour.
Invulnerable saves, to stop other people's power weapons.
Mobility, to ensure that your combat unit gets into combat.

If you're setting up a command squad for combat then you need power weapons (I take lightning claws for the same cost) storm shields for the invulnerable save, and I put mine on bikes (although you can use a Rhino or Razorback for less points).

Command Squads can also take a combat weapon, a special weapon, and a storm shield, so that offers some flexibility.

Default command squad for me is three lightning claws, one thunder hammer, four storm shields, and a couple of meltaguns. That's 270 points, which is more than an assault terminator squad, but makes up points by not needing to buy a Land Raider to get anywhere.

combat squads can't hang with the big boys unless they have some kind of invulnerable saves. I would put atleast 3 storm shields in that squad, or scrap the idea all together. There are more points-efficient ways to clobber your enemies in close combat, to be honest.

Well what would you suggest as for better buddies for my Captian

Putting them on bikes is a great idea. This will allow them to move 12" and still fire RF TL bollters and continue to assault. add in the FNP from the Apothecary and a few invul saves. With the extra toughness provided by the bikes it will make them alot more survivable. The PF are a questionable call as they will strike so late in the fight. Though one of them is great to take out multi-wounds models. If your worried about tanks like he said before take a few Meltas. you should have the space freed up since the bikes have built in bolters you can drop your storm bolters. Don't forget to put your captain on a bike if you want him to tag along. or you could always let him hang out with a foot squad and run the command squad by themselves.

Assault terminators are usually the go-to assault unit for space marines. And they're quite strong. You can add a librarian with gate of infinity for some extra mobility. I believe that scouts can infiltrate a beacon downfield so that you won't scatter when the squad deep strikes. Null zone is also quite strong in that squad.

I like the idea of stormbolters on the command squad because of them being assault weapons, however I'm not a fan of the Command Squad being set up as a CC group. I like them more as a fire support group that rides around in a R-Back and acts as a support team that can protect your back line units (Devastators and such) from deep strikes. Then you can keep them cheap and when fighting gribbles and Guard and such their basic load out (chain swords and bolters) is fine for assaults. But again their goal is to hold or weaken another unit the opponent is trying to position to threaten one of your specialized units.

Captains are best used if you want bikes as troops or you need a command squad.
You need a command squad when your elites are full.
If you want a cc threat you have assault termies, if you want a melta unit you have sternguard.
They are really useful as elite options are awesome.

In high point games having a cc unit is really useful, assault termies+raider is sometimes not right, so an expensive command squad on bikes can be great as a counter assault and keeping other units out of cc unit.

Here's something I kicked around for noncompetitive play:

Captain:
-Artificer Armor
-Relic Blade
-Bike

Command Squad
-Bikes
-2x Power Fists
-2x Storm Shields
-2x Power Weapons

That's T5, FNP, a single 2+ save, 3++ invuls, biker CC pseudo-deathstar. Interesting and fun, but overcosted.

Plus it lets you take bikes as troops.

Quad plasma plus FNP from apothecary FTW.

Cheapest and most effective way to run a Command squad is champion, three (or 6) lightning claws and 3 storm shields. A unit with 6 claws, 3 sheilds and champ runs the same cost as a landraider, which tends to be needed to run termies, plus termies don't have grenades. Add a relic blade captain and your squad is death to anything that's not a vehicle.

Or you could be a pansy and run it with just 4 plasma guns.

I'm a big advocate for command squads. I know the internet hates them but they are often the MVP in my 1500 pt list. The key is to equipe them right and to know their mission.

For me I use them as a defend the line counter punching CC unit. Here is how I equipe them, One guy with a melta gun, one guy with a power weapon, the company champion (who is an amazing value for 15 points, PW and WS5), a guy with a PF, and the apothrocary. The captain has a relic blade and a combi melta. I then put them in a standard razorback.

With that equipement I sit them near units I'm counting on holding objectives and I tare into anything that gets to me after being shot to death by the rest of my army. The comand squad is a very good CC unit, it's not super elite but it will hold it's own against any unit that is not an elite CC unit.

First thanks for all of your reply
Here's what I've come up with

Captian relic blade, artificers armor and storm bolter

Command squad

1. Power Fist, Storm Bolter
2. Power fist ,Strom Bolter
3. Company Standard or Power Sword (This is bought as a company champion Upgrade) (He has a magnet in his arm) and bolt pistol
4. Plasma Gun, Melts Gun or Flamer (He also has magnets)
5. Apothecary Bolter and chain sword

What do you think?





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do you think I should just scrap the Standard Bearer and just have the Company Champion.
I can put the Standard on back of there Razor Back Command.

You should scrap the standard bearer. And the guy with the plasmagun. Plasmaguns are rapid fire, if you stand still to shoot it you can't charge with the squad. You're much better off charging with the squad. If you don't give these guys some storm shields they're going to get wiped out against any strong opponent in close combat. Hope that helps.

ruminator wrote:Quad plasma plus FNP from apothecary FTW.

QFT.

This combination of two things the internet hates, Command Squads and Plasma Guns, makes a unit that is one of the scariest things ever.

The Apothecary obviously mitigates the damage from Gets Hot! (which IMO, isn't THAT big a risk [unless your dice hate you]) and no opponent will ever appreciate 8 plasma shots rapid firing into their squad.

juraigamer wrote:Cheapest and most effective way to run a Command squad is champion, three (or 6) lightning claws and 3 storm shields. A unit with 6 claws, 3 sheilds and champ runs the same cost as a landraider, which tends to be needed to run termies, plus termies don't have grenades. Add a relic blade captain and your squad is death to anything that's not a vehicle.

Or you could be a pansy and run it with just 4 plasma guns.

Im sorry but how on earth is that "the cheapest way" to run them? They costs more than 5 termies and how is it that you dont need an assault vehicle for your command squad? Sure you can grab a rhino but if so dont count on getting the charge on anything important.

While FnP and 3+save is just as good a 2+ save one easily forgets that FnP is lost when the Apoth dies which is not that uncommon. Its quite easy to put 5-6 wounds on a squad and when that happens you will lose your aport 1 out of 6 times. That will then make your CC command squad nothing more than over costed Vanguards.

Command squads should be used to spam special weapons. 4 Plasma Guns is the best way to run them imo.

I run a fluffy command squad, when I run them. I use plasma pistols, plasma guns and they drive around in a razorback killing stuff. They are fun and isn't that really the point of playing a game. Sometimes they win, sometimes they get wtfpwned but it's always fun.

tedurur wrote:

Im sorry but how on earth is that "the cheapest way" to run them?

Because they cost the exact amount that a landraider does, if you do bikes + champ and 3 LC or 6 LC and champ plus rhino, they have FNP, grenades, and operate alone, plus don't require a slot.

Terminators don't have grenades, meaning they will go last if they charge through cover, and a 3+ with FNP is slightly better than a simple 2+.

Ok here's my latest list

Company champion
Standard bearer Magnitized arm to be swapped out with a power sword ( In case I change my mind)
Powerfist and storm shield
Melta gun, Plasma gun or flamer magnitized again
Apotacary with a storm bolter

All under 200pts so its not that expensive

What do you think?

The Apothecary is not designated as a "veteran" so may not receive any upgrades.

If you want a deathstar command squad, I go: 4 meltaguns, 4 SS, 3 LCs, 1 hammer, champion upgrade (with hammer) in a rz with an ic.

If you wanna keep it fluffy, then just throw the champion and banner in there and keep the rest pretty stock... I'm not a big fan of plasma guns as there's a risk of hurting yourself and you can't assault.

juraigamer wrote:

tedurur wrote:

Im sorry but how on earth is that "the cheapest way" to run them?

Because they cost the exact amount that a landraider does, if you do bikes + champ and 3 LC or 6 LC and champ plus rhino, they have FNP, grenades, and operate alone, plus don't require a slot.

Terminators don't have grenades, meaning they will go last if they charge through cover, and a 3+ with FNP is slightly better than a simple 2+.

The command squad must have SS if you want to go the CC route, and since when is a LR cheap? With your previous setup you are looking at 300pts for a command squad with in a rhino. So they will most likely not be assaulting anything important since the vehicle (even if it does make it to the enemy lines, which is doubtful) doesnt have any assault ramp. A CC command squad on bikes have their niche, foot slogging CC Command squads really dont.

Terminators already go last, or are you saying that you are taking LC termies in a Vanilla SM list?

I would be most interested in knowing how you came to the conclusion that 3+ and FnP is better than a plain 2+. It is actually wrong. The 2+ is better since you get it vs things like Krak missiles and other AP3 stuff vs weapons that are < str 8 and >AP3 they are exactly equal. This is once again ignoring the fact that you run the risk of losing the Apot thus rendering the command squad much less durable than the termie squad.

tedurur wrote:

juraigamer wrote:

tedurur wrote:

Im sorry but how on earth is that "the cheapest way" to run them?

Because they cost the exact amount that a landraider does, if you do bikes + champ and 3 LC or 6 LC and champ plus rhino, they have FNP, grenades, and operate alone, plus don't require a slot.

Terminators don't have grenades, meaning they will go last if they charge through cover, and a 3+ with FNP is slightly better than a simple 2+.

The command squad must have SS if you want to go the CC route, and since when is a LR cheap? With your previous setup you are looking at 300pts for a command squad with in a rhino. So they will most likely not be assaulting anything important since the vehicle (even if it does make it to the enemy lines, which is doubtful) doesnt have any assault ramp. A CC command squad on bikes have their niche, foot slogging CC Command squads really dont.

Terminators already go last, or are you saying that you are taking LC termies in a Vanilla SM list?

I would be most interested in knowing how you came to the conclusion that 3+ and FnP is better than a plain 2+. It is actually wrong. The 2+ is better since you get it vs things like Krak missiles and other AP3 stuff vs weapons that are < str 8 and >AP3 they are exactly equal. This is once again ignoring the fact that you run the risk of losing the Apot thus rendering the command squad much less durable than the termie squad.

Wrong. You do not need stormshields if you want to go the CC route. You only need storm shields if you want them to be an elite CC unit. IMO they are too expensive when equiped with SS, especialy compaired with the cost of TH/SS termis. Command squads are better used to hold your line against things like BA assault marines or grey hunters or anyother non-powerweapon heavy squad that gets to your lines. A command squad equiped like I have suggested will slaughter these units. They will also do fine against a 5 man purifier squad that is standard equiped (2 psycannons 2 halberds and deamonhammer) if they get the charge/get to shoot before going in.

Running my command squad semi CC with some fire power

Champion
Standard bearer BP Chainsword
Veteran flamer power weapon
Veteran melta powerfist
Apothecary BP chainsword
Ill switch the BP with a plasma pistol if i need extra points. What you guys think? (I need a powerfist on all my squads asmuch as possible for fluff reasons)

Diabolical13 wrote:Running my command squad semi CC with some fire power

Champion
Standard bearer BP Chainsword
Veteran flamer power weapon
Veteran melta powerfist
Apothecary BP chainsword
Ill switch the BP with a plasma pistol if i need extra points. What you guys think? (I need a powerfist on all my squads asmuch as possible for fluff reasons)

I would recommend taking off the flamer as the model loses 1 attack losing his pistol and since you can put the command squad in a dedicated razorback with any of the normal weapons (twin linked heavy flamer maybe?)

That said it's a very nice command squad, capable of holding it's own against just most everything. Consider using lighting claws instead of power weapons, same price, one less attack but re-roll to wound. Dual lightning claws on one guy would look boss.

Pony_law wrote:

Wrong. You do not need stormshields if you want to go the CC route. You only need storm shields if you want them to be an elite CC unit.

This guy gets it. A command squad on bikes is a fast and deadly unit, while 5 TH/SS terminators are your elite punching bags. Each has their own targets, and after all why send a squad with feel no pain into all those power weapons? Herpa Derp, that's one reason why a command squad is great in CC, FNP.

juraigamer wrote:Cheapest and most effective way to run a Command squad is champion, three (or 6) lightning claws and 3 storm shields. A unit with 6 claws, 3 sheilds and champ runs the same cost as a landraider, which tends to be needed to run termies, plus termies don't have grenades. Add a relic blade captain and your squad is death to anything that's not a vehicle.

Or you could be a pansy and run it with just 4 plasma guns.

Since you can never get the bonus attack for two close combat weapons while carrying a storm shield paying points for extra lightning claws is pointless (pun intended). However (for real points blowout) you could take 3 lightning claws, a hammer, 4 storm shields, and 4 plasma guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

juraigamer wrote:

Pony_law wrote:

Wrong. You do not need stormshields if you want to go the CC route. You only need storm shields if you want them to be an elite CC unit.

This guy gets it. A command squad on bikes is a fast and deadly unit, while 5 TH/SS terminators are your elite punching bags. Each has their own targets, and after all why send a squad with feel no pain into all those power weapons? Herpa Derp, that's one reason why a command squad is great in CC, FNP.

Why send a unit with FNP into power weapons? Because sometimes you have no other choice. Assault Terminators are great, but their effective range is 12 inches. That basically relies on the enemy to come to them. With 18 inches of range the biker command squad has the same effective range as an assault squad with higher toughness and FNP against the non-power weapon attacks in the squad.

The other thing bikers can do is stand off and shoot with the rest of a bike based army before closing to kill. Assault Terminators require you to commit your unit to a specific tactic, and they're very hard to reposition if the enemy outmanoeuvres you. Land Raiders don't factor, they die too fast, and Gate from a librarian allows you to move into rapid fire range but not assault. It takes Shrike to make Assault Terminators scary.

You always have a choice with a biker command squad as to what you do with them, and if you're not taking them on bikes you can use the points you didn't spend on the other elements of your army to support them so they don't have to charge that unit of 5 TH/SS termies over there.

4x plasma.

Pew pew pew!

I do run dual LCs on my vanguards extremely satisfying having jump packs with those things.
Anyone else suggest another weapon that can bring me to the assault without having to deal with rapid fire probs =)?