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Been looking around for an answer on this and just havent come across it. When you are deploying using the pitched battle rules and you put out a skimmer are you placing the front edge of the base out 12 inches from the table edge or the front of the skimmer's hull out 12 inches from the table edge?

This came up in my local group's last game with Valkyries and no one could seem to find the definite answer in the BRB.

Thanks in advance

All measurements are made to the hull for movement and placement. . When being assaulted assaulting models have to reach the base or hull skimmer.

This means that you have to bring Valkyrie wholly on table, which means you cannot shoot all guns on the turn it arrives as Valkyrie is over 6" long.

Is there a section of the rulebook that defines the skimmer deployment rule about only measuring to the front of the hull?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Luide wrote:This means that you have to bring Valkyrie wholly on table, which means you cannot shoot all guns on the turn it arrives as Valkyrie is over 6" long.

Yeah we didnt have any issues with that, we were just trying to find the rule about how to measure your deployment when using a skimmer (base or hull)

jkpz28 wrote:Is there a section of the rulebook that defines the skimmer deployment rule about only measuring to the front of the hull?

BGB pg. 71 'Measuring Distances"

Thank you

This is not the case for Valk/Vend/Raven Flyers. Their errata makes them measure from the base for movement. Measure range from the hull, but movement is measured from the base only. This is a change to the rule that governs all other skimmers and is contained in the most recent FAQ on this subject. This does mean that in some cases, the models weapons can be an inch closer, or even off of the board.

Can you tell me the ref# for the change you are talking about in the FAQ, I cant seem to find it.

axeman1n wrote:This is not the case for Valk/Vend/Raven Flyers. Their errata makes them measure from the base for movement. Measure range from the hull, but movement is measured from the base only. This is a change to the rule that governs all other skimmers and is contained in the most recent FAQ on this subject. This does mean that in some cases, the models weapons can be an inch closer, or even off of the board.

This is not true.

The only thing the FaQ did was clarify that a skimmer is only in terrain if its base is in the terrain.

You still measure ranges from the hull as normal for all vehicles, and LoS from the weapons mounting along the barrel, as normal for all vehicles.

DR is correct. The models on the large oval flyer bases (valk/vend, stormraven, DE flyers) have certain exceptions, but for most purposes you still measure to and from the hull.

The exceptions are:
Disembarking and embarking
Contesting objectives
Difficult terrain

axeman1n wrote:This is not the case for Valk/Vend/Raven Flyers. Their errata makes them measure from the base for movement. Measure range from the hull, but movement is measured from the base only. This is a change to the rule that governs all other skimmers and is contained in the most recent FAQ on this subject. This does mean that in some cases, the models weapons can be an inch closer, or even off of the board.

The above is based on an incorrect reading of the FAQ about terrain for skimmers, where you only consider the base. THis does not provide ANY exception to the rules for measuring movement for skimmers to the hull of the model, and should not be taken as a correct reading of the rules.

Luide wrote:This means that you have to bring Valkyrie wholly on table, which means you cannot shoot all guns on the turn it arrives as Valkyrie is over 6" long.

Sure you can. Nothing says it has to come in 90 degrees to the table edge. It can be placed on an angle so that it can claim only 6" of movement for shooting.

Legacy40k wrote:

Luide wrote:This means that you have to bring Valkyrie wholly on table, which means you cannot shoot all guns on the turn it arrives as Valkyrie is over 6" long.

Sure you can. Nothing says it has to come in 90 degrees to the table edge. It can be placed on an angle so that it can claim only 6" of movement for shooting.

If you do that then part of the model is hanging over the table edge. With the wings the model is longer and wider than 6", which means it must move over 6" so as to not be hanging over the table edge.

There's literally no physical way* to move a Valk, Vendetta, or Stormraven fully onto the table using only 6" of movement. They just don't fit.


(*Well, if you took it off its flying stand and stood it on its nose or something, but that's not legit.)

Mannahnin wrote:There's literally no physical way* to move a Valk, Vendetta, or Stormraven fully onto the table using only 6" of movement. They just don't fit.


(*Well, if you took it off its flying stand and stood it on its nose or something, but that's not legit.)

I don't have a Valk to actually try the measurements, but instead of deploying it nose first (or rotated 90 degrees so one wingtip is at the board edge), could you rotate it 45 degrees and have it fit? I guess it would depend on just how much longer than 6" the wings and body/tail of the valk are. It's entirely possible that there is no end-to-end measurement on the valk that is 6" or less.

I have my Valkyrie in my hand, it's about 12" nose to tail with a 10" wingspan.

At 45 degree you're still looking at about 10"

I've tried every measurement, there is no way to fit it on the board moving 6". It's going to have to move 10" minimum.

so after reading the.post I see some say.hull and some still say base...any faq ref# or page #'s yet. thanks

One says base and never replied to being corrected about misunderstanding the FAQ; everyone else is saying hull in refereence to Page 71 under Skimmers Measuring Distances in the BRB.

An image should make it clearer! The minimum space you need is 9" to get a Valkyrie on the board. No chance with a 6" move.

Hinkel wrote:so after reading the.post I see some say.hull and some still say base...any faq ref# or page #'s yet. thanks

The base is only used for embarking/disembarking and contesting objectives. Everything else uses the model itself.
Imperial Guard FAQ First question on page 3.

grendel083 wrote:An image should make it clearer! The minimum space you need is 9" to get a Valkyrie on the board. No chance with a 6" move.

Indeed it does! I figured it was something like that.

When measuring if the vehicle is off of the table, per the FAQ, what do you measure from? Off the table is off the universe. The only thing the FAQ says, to see if the vehicle is in difficult dangerous terrain or impassible, you measure to the base only. These rules overide the rules in the BRB for measuring to skimmers as they are more specific.
Prove that a valkyrie is not on the table after it has moved 6". The only way to show that it is off of the table requires you to measure if it's over top of the edge of the table. When measuring to see if it's over top of something, you use the base instead. Even if it were to be shot down, there are rules to allow it to move the minimum distance to be placed onto the table.
It's really the best way to play the vehicle. It speeds up game play, and is consistant.

axeman1n wrote:When measuring if the vehicle is off of the table, per the FAQ, what do you measure from? Off the table is off the universe. The only thing the FAQ says, to see if the vehicle is in difficult dangerous terrain or impassible, you measure to the base only. These rules overide the rules in the BRB for measuring to skimmers as they are more specific.
Prove that a valkyrie is not on the table after it has moved 6". The only way to show that it is off of the table requires you to measure if it's over top of the edge of the table. When measuring to see if it's over top of something, you use the base instead. Even if it were to be shot down, there are rules to allow it to move the minimum distance to be placed onto the table.
It's really the best way to play the vehicle. It speeds up game play, and is consistant.

False.
You are allowed to measure some distances to the hull.
The tail is part of the hull.

axeman1n wrote:Even if it were to be shot down, there are rules to allow it to move the minimum distance to be placed onto the table.

Rules citation? I'm not familiar with it.

IG.56A.02 – Q: What part of a Valkyrie/Vendetta
model needs to be in or on terrain in order for it to
count as being in or on the terrain piece?
A: While the Valkyrie/Vendetta is on its base, only if the base
is actually in or on the terrain would the model count as
being in or on the terrain (unless both players agree
otherwise) [clarification].
Ref: BA.38A.02, DE.46A.02, GK.37A.02

IG.56A.03 – Q: Can a Valkyrie/Vendetta model end its
movement over friendly or enemy models and can
other models end their move underneath it?
A: As long as a Valkyrie/Vendetta doesn’t end its move with
its base on top of any model or within 1” of any enemies, it
is fine to have portions of the Valkyrie/Vendetta model end
up over other models, provided they physically fit underneath
the Valkyrie/Vendetta model [clarification].
Ref: BA.38A.03, DE.46A.03, GK.37A.03

IG.56A.04 – Q: Can a Valkyrie/Vendetta end its
movement with part of the model hanging off the
table as long as its base is fully on the table?
A: No, a Valkyrie/Vendetta must end its movement with the
entire model over the table [clarification]. Note that this
means it may have to move faster than ‘combat speed’ when
moving onto the table from Reserves.
Ref: BA.38A.04, DE.46A.04, GK.37A.04

axeman1n wrote:When measuring if the vehicle is off of the table, per the FAQ, what do you measure from?

There's no measuring to see if a model is off the table. If part of the model is overhanging the edge, then it isn't fully on the table. The model is used here, not he base.

Prove that a valkyrie is not on the table after it has moved 6".

The Valkyrie is longer than 6" (even with pivoting). Part of the model WILL hang over the edge on a 6" move. Therefore it is not fully deployed.

The only way to show that it is off of the table requires you to measure if it's over top of the edge of the table.

Or you could look at the model. Is any part of it hanging over the edge? If it only moved 6" the answer is a definite Yes.

jkpz28 wrote:INAT FAQ Citations

While good enough for many people, you can't use INAT FAQ quotes to solve a RAW discussion.

I thought the point of the FAQ was to help answer confusing RAW?

axeman1n wrote:When measuring if the vehicle is off of the table, per the FAQ, what do you measure from?

The FAQ says nothing about stopping measurments to/from the hull during deployment. So the 'Measuring Distances' section of the BRB skimmer section still stands.

axeman1n wrote:These rules overide the rules in the BRB for measuring to skimmers as they are more specific.

Correct...and in fact they only overide the circumstances discussed in the FAQ. What the FAQ answers don't do is tell you to ignore the BRB 'measuring distances' part regarding the table edge and deployment.

axeman1n wrote:Prove that a valkyrie is not on the table after it has moved 6"

Once again, read the 'measuring distances' in the Skimmers section. If you only moved onto the table edge 6"...you'll see the hull is hanging over the edge of the table, and is now considered destroyed (per the FAQ).

axeman1n wrote:When measuring to see if it's over top of something, you use the base instead. Even if it were to be shot down, there are rules to allow it to move the minimum distance to be placed onto the table.
It's really the best way to play the vehicle. It speeds up game play, and is consistant

As far as I know everything dealing with the edge of the table either stops models from crossing that line or destroys models partially over the line. Exactly what rules do you think make exceptions for Skimmers to 'ignore' the table edges?

jkpz28 wrote:I thought the point of the FAQ was to help answer confusing RAW?

The Games Workshop FAQs yes. The purpose of YMDC is to discuss the GW RAW. This means the BRB, relevant codexes, and relevant GW FAQs.
The INAT FAQ isn't a GW product. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate all the work that goes into it.

It is, however, since the INAT FAQ is not written by GW, but a consortium of players, it cannot be used here as an official source. Most people play by INAT FAQ's however, as I stated, they are not "official".

Edit: Ninja'd by rigeld. Again.

Ok, thanks. I thought it was a GW release. Still rather new to 40K.