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I was just wondering how the Dakka community felt about this, in my current and fairly nooby 2k army list i'm putting together (link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/443941.page#4169102) I have one trukk out of the 4 that is meant to be a fast moving shoota platform. The boyz in the trukk have a little twist that is either working as intended, or simply an unremedied, however beautiful loophole.

In the trukk, I have 11 shoota boyz and 1 nob. The nob, unusually, carries a big shoota and PK. I'm not sure how much this is talked about here, but I will say i believe this is allowed (and from my research the consensus is that this is indeed allowed) because the Nob is allowed to exchange his choppa for the PK and the slugga for the big shoota as per the 1 big shoota per 10 orks rule, and he is at zero downside because his attacks do not benefit from having a slugga over the big shoota in the first place.

As I have the trukk set up, it would be able to move 13", make 3 big shoota shots, and the embarked orks would make 22 shoota shots and 3 big shoota shots, for a total of 28 shots at 31" threat range, a slight bonus over having 20 shoota shots, 6 big shoota shots (incl the trukk), and 1 slugga shot which will likely be out of range, amounting to only 26 shots at the same threat range, 27 shots maximum.

My biggest question is: is this competitive? The trukk would pose an immediate threat to almost any soft target on the board and would likely draw fire. And I personally do not see this as a problem. If a single trukk can successfully draw the fire of one, two, or even three opposing units by being a slightly bigger threat than the others, my slugga trukks will have that much bigger of a window to put the hurt on.

Passengers may never shoot out of a vehicle if it moved more than 6"(RPJ: 7"). Fast does not change this.

Outside of that, shootas and big shootas aren't dangerous to anything but infantry - which get's murdered by charging boyz anyways. You'd be better off with just moving the trukk just as far, getting out, calling a Waaagh! and charging.
Trukks also tend to blow up if anyone looks funny at them, so don't count on one occupying three units. There is simply too much S7 and up shooting out there.

For these reasons, I believe a battlewagon would be a better platform for drive-by shooting, you get more shots and a more robust ride which can also run stuff over with a deff rolla.
Actually, I always have a shoota wagon in my army when fielding battlewagons, and it has done great so far for me.

Um, actually you can shoot out of a fast vehicle if it only moves 12" and I'm pretty sure you can do it out of normal vehicles too. But yeah, shoota boys in a battle wagon own. Just drive around shooting and then get out, unload mass firepower and charge. (It works!)

I have to agree with Jidmah here, troops being transported can only shoot from the vehicle if it's travelled 6" or less (RPJ 7" or less). You can move 12" (RPJ 13") then disembark, then shoot.

DakkaOrk007 wrote:Um, actually you can shoot out of a fast vehicle if it only moves 12" and I'm pretty sure you can do it out of normal vehicles too. But yeah, shoota boys in a battle wagon own. Just drive around shooting and then get out, unload mass firepower and charge. (It works!)

You're wrong.
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." Brb pg 66

Rules for Fast Vehicles (brb pg 70) make no changes to this. Only way the change Transport special rules is the "no embark/disembark if moving/going to move at flat out" rule.

Ronar288 wrote:My biggest question is: is this competitive? The trukk would pose an immediate threat to almost any soft target on the board and would likely draw fire. And I personally do not see this as a problem.n.

If truuks had an AV of 12, then yes. At AV 10 they blow up from a stiff breeze, and so its less of a viable option.

Now I don't see it as competitive. I run the Ork Trukk / Trukk mob myself. I see no reason to run it as Shoota boyz however since most times it is best used to reinforce a combat, or seize and objective.

I would disagree with a slight application of your listing the Nob can take a Big Shoota. I know the argument: Some people feel by literally rules as written, the Nob is a Boy, and can take the Big Shoota before he upgrades to a Nob. Along with the actually army listing says "Ork." the the codex.

I disagree. The Army listing for the Nob indicates the wargear “he” may have access to. No where does it indicate he is allowed to previously have a big shoota. His options are Choppa -> Big Choppa / Klaw, in addition to Heavy Armor / Bosspole. That’s also rules as written. Push come to shove, I have not seen TO’s rule in your arguments favor. Regardless, I’d abide by that decision process at a competitive level. In a friendly game, I wouldn’t care so much, but would point on the disagreement.

Your thoughts are regarding the vehicles potential threat range / damage output.
By your logic, your unit would have access to
11x2 Shoota Shots at BS 2 = 22 shots
1x3 Big Shoota at BS 2= 3 shots. That’s 25 shots.
Your still counting on at best hitting on 5’s.
Threat range 6/7+ 24 for max shooting effectiveness (shooting from trukk)
Threat range 12/13+ disembarck+weapon range = 39

I’d rather have the threat of assault
12/13+disembark 2, waagh d6, assault 6.
Assault threat = 21+ d6 factoring Waagh. A solid 22 minimum
Then pending initiative you have a threat of
11 pistols, 1 big shoota
Then 4 attacks, 3 from a Big Shoota Ork, then a PK Nob for 4.
Total= 47 Str 4 attacks which hit on 4’s, likely wounding on 4’s against suitable targets.

I prefer the threat of the trukk in combat. They have a better tacticale usage, plus have multiple roles to fill. The dedicated shooting mob yes can assault, but you are giving up attacks. You are also counting on hitting on 5’s vs 4’s. And lastly, you are really banking on the opponent not blowing up the armor 10 trukk. Players should be smart. Trukks should die. For your trukk to be effective, you likely did not reserve it, its likely dead by turn 2 pending Night Fight.

I'm inclined to agree with the above. Your "tactic" is breaking not one, but two rules. Nob don't have the option to field that wargear, and no one can move over 6" (7 for red orks) and fire out of a vehicle fire port.

The nob can pick any of the boyz' special weapons, he is right on that one.

If your nob wants your big shoota, you should give him your big shoota.

Luide wrote:

DakkaOrk007 wrote:Um, actually you can shoot out of a fast vehicle if it only moves 12" and I'm pretty sure you can do it out of normal vehicles too. But yeah, shoota boys in a battle wagon own. Just drive around shooting and then get out, unload mass firepower and charge. (It works!)

You're wrong.
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." Brb pg 66

Rules for Fast Vehicles (brb pg 70) make no changes to this. Only way the change Transport special rules is the "no embark/disembark if moving/going to move at flat out" rule.

You are right but pretty sure you are forgetting the specific special rule for open top vehicles which does allow them to shoot. Trukks are fast and open topped.

Grots R OP wrote:

Luide wrote:

DakkaOrk007 wrote:Um, actually you can shoot out of a fast vehicle if it only moves 12" and I'm pretty sure you can do it out of normal vehicles too. But yeah, shoota boys in a battle wagon own. Just drive around shooting and then get out, unload mass firepower and charge. (It works!)

You're wrong.
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." Brb pg 66

Rules for Fast Vehicles (brb pg 70) make no changes to this. Only way the change Transport special rules is the "no embark/disembark if moving/going to move at flat out" rule.

You are right but pretty sure you are forgetting the specific special rule for open top vehicles which does allow them to shoot. Trukks are fast and open topped.

No. It doesn't. Open topped simply allows all of the models to shoot instead of just 1 or two using a firing point. However, that doesn't get you around: "Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." Brb pg 66

Open-topped allow more Orks to shoot, but they still can't do so if you move cruising/flat out.

It's slugga boys for my trukks, moving 12" disembarking and then assaulting is far more effective than shooting. For extra assault range throw in RPG and/or call a Waaagh!

Normaly with my force, it's sluggas if going in a truck/battlewagon, then big mobs of shootas on foot.

But giving the Nob the big shoota is fine. The Codex says an Ork can carry it, so Boy/'ArdBoy/Nob/'ArdBoyNob all quallify (there's even a picture of one on p88).

I think he may be correct, the nob can take the big shoota much similar in the way he can take stikkbombs... It reads "for every 10 orks in the unit, one 'Ork' may..." upgrade blah blah.

I was against the idea originally but I think it may be a feasable upgrade

Unless you are in Germany. The German codex actually says "for every ten orks in the the mob one ork boy may...".
And If you pull out the english codex to show people, you are, of course, TFG

Oh well, I get trukks that explode 6" all the time instead

Mine repeatedly fling themselves into the enemy and then explode, thanks to ramshackle.

Quite often makes up for a lacklustre firing round ;P

Grots R OP wrote:

Luide wrote:

DakkaOrk007 wrote:Um, actually you can shoot out of a fast vehicle if it only moves 12" and I'm pretty sure you can do it out of normal vehicles too. But yeah, shoota boys in a battle wagon own. Just drive around shooting and then get out, unload mass firepower and charge. (It works!)

You're wrong.
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." Brb pg 66

Rules for Fast Vehicles (brb pg 70) make no changes to this. Only way the change Transport special rules is the "no embark/disembark if moving/going to move at flat out" rule.

You are right but pretty sure you are forgetting the specific special rule for open top vehicles which does allow them to shoot. Trukks are fast and open topped.

I'm not forgetting anything, because no such rule exists. You're just either making it up or remembering some rule like it from some previous edition. I haven't played 3e or 4e so I cannot say if they had rules like that, and in 2e vehicles worked completely differently.
Anyway, neither Fast nor Open Topped change any rules regarding can occupants fire out if vehicle moved at Cruising speed. so normal rules (underlined) apply,

Trukks are not meant for shoota boyz. If you're fiddling around with shooting with trukks, something has gone very wrong

I agree, trukks are either for zipping a mob of nobz around in the mid game, or launching slugga boyz into combat ASAP. Trying to get trukks to be a shooting platform is like training a chicken to fly. In the end, youll just get all cut up, swear alot, and something flopping around in a hilarious fashion

Luide wrote:

Grots R OP wrote:

Luide wrote:

DakkaOrk007 wrote:Um, actually you can shoot out of a fast vehicle if it only moves 12" and I'm pretty sure you can do it out of normal vehicles too. But yeah, shoota boys in a battle wagon own. Just drive around shooting and then get out, unload mass firepower and charge. (It works!)

You're wrong.
"Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn." Brb pg 66

Rules for Fast Vehicles (brb pg 70) make no changes to this. Only way the change Transport special rules is the "no embark/disembark if moving/going to move at flat out" rule.

You are right but pretty sure you are forgetting the specific special rule for open top vehicles which does allow them to shoot. Trukks are fast and open topped.

I'm not forgetting anything, because no such rule exists. You're just either making it up or remembering some rule like it from some previous edition. I haven't played 3e or 4e so I cannot say if they had rules like that, and in 2e vehicles worked completely differently.
Anyway, neither Fast nor Open Topped change any rules regarding can occupants fire out if vehicle moved at Cruising speed. so normal rules (underlined) apply,

Luide is right, sadly. Open Topped allows you to ignore the fire point restrictions, but not to ignore the movement restrictions- which are listed under the fire points section, hence the confusion. If you choose to ignore the movement restriction, there's nothin in the rulebook to stop them firing if the vehicle moves fast either- so why not just go 18" and blast away?

Ironically enough, you certainly can move 13", disembark and then shoot. Ork boyz are more accurate when they take the time to climb out of a speeding vehicle, apparently.

does that mean you can
on turn 1 - go 13 disembark and shoot
on turn 2 - reembark, go 19.
on turn 3 - go 13, shoot, Waagh d6 and assult 6

Of course the downside of that is that very few orks are going to get back into the trukk at turn 2....

Apart from:
1) You can't go flat out in a turn where you have (or are going to) embark/disembark (so no re-embark and go 19")
2) You can't shoot *and* run (Waagh! d6")

So you could:
Turn 1 - go 13", disembark and shoot
Turn 2 - re-embark, go 7" and shoot *or* go 13"
Turn 3 - go 13", shoot *or* Waaagh d6", and then assault 6"

If your going for a gun platform, just use a battle wagon. x4 big shootas and a kannon makes for a pretty wicked gun base. Not so much against any MEQs but everything else it does rather well with. Then you could try to stick 20 shootas in there, granted youd have to be fairly close for the shootas to hit stuff, where as the BW can stay a good 30 inches away and be safe, but still fire all its weapons

Trukks are meant to ride forward, get blown up, and have the orks charge. So no, its not competative, its honestly a waste of a perfectly good trukk. Shoota boyz are best in large mobs riding around in a battlewagon shooting 60 shots into peoples domes.