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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 09:56:23
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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This video beggars belief.
Story below, I hope our American cousins can watch the video Stateside.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17859117
Are beer firms to blame for Native American drink woe?
After years of failed efforts to address chronic alcoholism, can a $500m (£308m) dollar lawsuit against the beer supply-chain put an end to one tribe's deadly struggle with alcohol?
For generations, the dream of a sober society has eluded the largest tribe of Native Americans in the US. Members of the Oglala Sioux tribe, living in South Dakota's Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, have long tried to shut down the beer stores just across the state line in White Clay, Nebraska. The four beer shops in the tiny town of White Clay (population: a dozen) operate just steps from the reservation. Between them they sell more beer per head than almost anywhere else in the US - a total of about 13,000 12oz (350ml) servings each day.
"I'm 52 years old and I come up here because I'm an alcoholic," says one Pine Ridge resident, Bald Eagle. He is one of several people who spends his days on the street that runs through White Clay, drinking. "And I love my alcohol," Bald Eagle says. "For me, it's my life-blood.""I wake up with a hangover every morning. But you know what? I'm smart. I drink a gallon of water every morning. Sometimes I get lucky and I find a beer on the street. That's just the way it is."
The White Clay beer stores are the most accessible source of alcohol for members of the tribe, who live on a reservation where the sale or possession of alcohol is forbidden. It has also been the scene of a few horrific crimes.
The tribe has led protests and marches to shame the store owners. It has asked for tougher laws that would make it harder to sell and consume alcohol in the area. It has lobbied for stricter enforcement of Nebraska's existing liquor laws.
Nothing has worked, and Pine Ridge leaders have decided to take a new approach. They have filed a lawsuit seeking $500m (£309m) in damages from not just the beer stores, but distributors and breweries as well.
The core of the Oglala Sioux lawsuit is an allegation that the big breweries and distributors supplying beer to White Clay knew it would eventually be consumed or sold on the reservation illegally.
"What little money our people get, it goes to White Clay. And the distributors are aware of what poor people we are but they don't care," Tom Poor Bear, the tribe's vice-president, says. "They'll take our last dime."
Tom White, the lawyer representing the tribe, says a combination of factors make it virtually impossible for tribal members to drink their alcohol legally.
White Clay and Pine Ridge are extremely geographically isolated. The nearest towns that sell alcohol are more than 20 miles (32km) away and Pine Ridge is the biggest town in the area.
In Nebraska it is forbidden to drink in public or a car, and reselling alcohol is illegal. But White Clay has no bars that could serve alcohol legally and only about three private homes where drinking would be permitted.
Possessing and drinking alcohol has been totally banned in Pine Ridge reservation for more than 100 years, except for a short period in the 1970s. Nevertheless, bootlegging on the reservation is said to be rampant.
The lawsuit also argues that the drinking, fuelled by alcohol sales in White Clay, has caused devastating harm to the tribe, causing lawlessness and violence, poor public health and anaemic economic development.
At the peak of the violence, in the 1990s, a series of grisly, unsolved killings of Oglala Sioux tribe members in White Clay spurred the tribe into pushing for change.
Despite their efforts, the situation did not improve.
Over the years, scores of people have been killed in drunken brawls and drink-driving accidents. Local authorities say as much as 90% of crime on the reservation is linked in some way to excessive drinking.
"People get stabbed, people get enraged," says Pine Ridge resident Ben Mesteth, who has been sober for about four years. "That's just part of how people drink down here."
According to the complaint, average life expectancy on the reservation is between 45 and 52 years, significantly below the average US life expectancy of over 77 years.
As many as 50% of adults over the age of 40 have diabetes, and the incidence of tuberculosis is 800% higher than it is across the rest of the country, the tribe's filing says.
Meanwhile, it adds, teenage suicide is 150% and infant mortality is 300% higher than the US as a whole.
Finally, the complaint alleges that the drinking deters private investment and economic development in the area, whereas unemployment is estimated to be at least 80%.
For many residents, alcohol is "the only thing that makes everything go away," says Megan White Pike, as she points out her own mother among a group of people sitting in the shade on the streets of White Clay.
She waves across the street to a cousin who she says is also here for beer.
The complaint asks for an injunction to restrict alcohol sales in White Clay to what could be legally consumed, and for an estimated $500m in compensation for damages and social harm caused by the alcohol.
'Not illegal'
The beer companies have until Friday 27 April to respond to the lawsuit, and are expected to ask the court to dismiss the case. They declined to comment for this story. After the deadline a judge has between 30 and 60 days to decide whether to hear the case in a federal court.
As the lines get longer outside the White Clay beer stores in the late afternoon, defenders say tribe members need to be responsible for their own choices.
"It's not illegal to buy alcohol at a place that sells it legally," says Vic Clark, one of the few actual residents of White Clay. He runs a general store there that does not sell beer - but he defends the right of the beer shop owners to do so.
"We may know that it's going to be an illegal thing, but on the other hand so does the guy in Rushville, so does the guy in Rapid City."
For Tom Poor Bear, however, saying that "everybody does it" is no longer a good enough excuse.
"We've always been on the defence," says Mr Poor Bear. "Personally, I'm tired of being on the defence. The best offence that we could come up with was this lawsuit."
Figures are unbelieveable.
Life and loss on Pine Ridge
Average life expectancy is between 45 and 52 years
Up to 50% of adults over 40 have diabetes
Teenage suicide rate is 1.5 higher than the rest of US
Infant mortality is three times higher than the rest of the US
So, without sounding ridiculously racist, my missus have been discussing it for a while and we cant think of the reason, why on earth are Native Americans all drunks!? The British and the Irish have long been plied with booze, as have the Russians and the Germans and, well, almost everyone in Europe, but the issue isn't anywhere near as problematic. And Native Americans must have had their own forms of alcohol before we showed up, so what on earth has given them such a predisposition towards getting fething leathered?
And regards the law suit, Im sorry, but I have no sympathy for the native Americans battle with the demon drink, I fear it may be another case of blaming the victim, but I digress.
Do you not think that blaming beer companies for making beer is ridiculous? Its already banned on the reservation, what do they expect them to do? Ban sales to Indians? What if I was an Indian and I wanted a nice quiet 6 pack on a Friday, surely that's a racist and prejudiced law to pass?
And they cant ban in across the state line either right? Or else what do the English/German/Italian/Irish American population do when they want to go for a drink?!
So plenty of questions there, but an interesting story and video. What are your theories?
1. Why are native Americans predisposed to serious alcoholism?
2. What can be done to combat it, when banning it hasn't worked, and banning sales to people on grounds of ethnicity is clearly ridiculous? And banning it for the Americans over the stateline would also clearly be unfair to the inhabitants that aren't native Americans!
3. Do you not think that the lawsuit is flagrantly taking the piss for what is essentially the tribes peoples own stupidity and self control?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/28 09:59:08
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 10:15:03
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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It's native Americans stuck on miserable gak hole reservations who are drunks.
For the same reason, Australian aborigines are drunks, and crusties on sink estates in the UK.
Raise them up out of poverty and deprivation and it would stop.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/28 10:25:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 10:25:48
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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According to the missus, they do get money thrown at them, and this is what is causing the problem in the first place. Its the same here, like most left leaning people you have a very simplistic idea of how to fix an issue.
Namely, throw money at it. Same with the NHS. Oh its broke, throw more money at it.
It doesnt work.
If I go to the sink estate across the street and give a bloke £20,000, he wont invest it. He wont save it, he wont put it in an ISA and he wont send his kids to college, he will spend it on fags and special brew.
And they must have cash, if they buy gak loads of beer every day surely? They don't appear to be stealing it, and I work full time and couldn't afford to get smashed on beer 7 days a week, they arent drinking home brew or spirits, they are mass buying beer.
So rather than be pithy, why not explain to me what your grand plan is for raising them out of poverty, rather than stating the obvious.
Oh and regards the story, do you support their claim to be given millions of dollars for buying a product that is freely available?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/28 10:31:46
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 10:36:08
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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I don't have a grand plan, but that makes no difference to the force of the argument so it's irrelevant.
I neither support not deprecate the lawsuit. We have courts to sort out lawsuits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 10:54:46
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Kilkrazy wrote:
I neither support not deprecate the lawsuit. We have courts to sort out lawsuits.
Oh come on! Why post then?
You can have an opinion without being a juror.
Do you think OJ did it?
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 11:50:19
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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I've seen what booze has done to the Australian aboriginies and if it's half as bad with the native Americans then I think they have a point.
Alcohol to them is much more dangerous than it is to Europeans, they can get drunk off half a pint. It ruins their communities completely.
Imagine if you could walk into a shop in the UK and buy a pound of heroin for a tenner and you've got some idea of why their society doesn't work.
Having said that, the $500m compensation claim is obviously bs. But then, they are americans.
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Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:05:27
Subject: Re:Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Violent Enforcer
Panama City, FL
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The breweries should settle and give them $500m worth of free beer vouchers.
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7500pts. 1750pts. 1500pts. 2000pts. 11000pts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:06:14
Subject: Re:Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Nocturn wrote:The breweries should settle and give them $500m worth of free beer vouchers.
I suppose that's meeting them half way eh?
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:11:33
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Native Americans are so severely affected by alcohol as they simply can't metabolise it efficiently. They are prone to having low levels of alcohol dehydrogenase which normally clears alcohol quite quickly. The net result of this is that people can get smashed on small volumes of alcohol. There have also been tentative links between low alcohol dehydrogenase levels and alcoholism.
This is true for quite a few non European populations. A friend of mine even claims that he has a Chinese friend who can actually get drunk simply by smelling alcohol.
Simply throwing money at the problem of poverty won't fix it, it needs to be directly targeted and planned but it also needs a lot more money so as usual there is a token effort while nothing worthwhile gets done.
I woudn't call this frivolous, the compensation element is massively inflated of course.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:14:45
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Palindrome wrote:Native Americans are so severely affected by alcohol as they simply can't metabolise it efficiently. They are prone to having low levels of alcohol dehydrogenase which normally clears alcohol quite quickly. The net result of this is that people can get smashed on small volumes of alcohol. There have also been tentative links between low alcohol dehydrogenase levels and alcoholism.
This is true for quite a few non European populations. A friend of mine even claims that he has a Chinese friend who can actually get drunk simply by smelling alcohol.
Simply throwing money at the problem of poverty won't fix it, it needs to be directly targeted and planned but it also needs a lot more money so as usual there is a token effort while nothing worthwhile gets done.
I woudn't call this frivolous, the compensation element is massively inflated of course.
Yes, I can see your point, but surely how many pints it takes you to get drunk is utterly irrelevant? I have a mate who gets pissed really easy, what does that have to do with his choice to drink beer or not? If people are making a choice to spend all of their money on beer, how on earth is that law suit worthy?
Is it not exactly the same as a fat guy suing a kebab shop? Or a smoker suing an off licence for selling them fags?
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:20:15
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Except of course if low levels of alcohol dehydrogenase actually make a person prepositioned to alcoholism, there is evidence that this is the case. It can't simply be said that it was a persons choice, it is much more complex than that.
The lawsuit itself probably isn't the best way of going about this but tightening legislation surrounding alcohol sales in these areas would be a pretty good idea.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/28 12:21:57
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:38:50
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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How then?
I mean, I reckon its a good idea, but how can it be achived? You cant say "no selling beer to Indians" because thats ridiculous, if I was an honest hard working Indian who wanted a 6 pack on a Saturday I would be outraged!
And you cant say "No beer at all in the neighbouring counties" because what about the millions of responsible drinkers?
Basically, they should bring in ridiculously harsh laws on the reservation. No consuming alcohol or a night in the cells or something.. but as I said, blaming beer makers is flat out ridiculous.
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:42:36
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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They could start by really cracking down on bootlegging and restricting opening hours/sales volumes.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:47:51
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress
Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.
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People on reservations have restrictions on what they can do. Living off the land etc, so sitting around chugging beers can more easily become a habit.
How do you get drunk on american beer anyway, its watered down baby piddle.
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n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 12:53:22
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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This isn't just some drunk people, but sometimes up to 70% of the people with an alcohol problem on a rez. It is not as simple people having a drink but a pervasive social issue that was introduced by outside forces.
Henry Dawes said:
"... expressed his faith in the civilizing power of private property with the claim that to be civilized was to 'wear civilized clothes ... cultivate the ground, live in houses, ride in Studebaker wagons, send children to school, drink whiskey [and] own property."
Forcing whiskey on to the communities didn't really have the civilizing effect I think they were hoping for.
I can't help but wonder if this isn't another situation where people simplify a case without knowing the particulars, like the McDonald's coffee in the lap case. Without knowing the exact argument I agree that it seems a bit off, though the point of the suit may just be to help raise awareness of the problem.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orlanth wrote:People on reservations have restrictions on what they can do. Living off the land etc, so sitting around chugging beers can more easily become a habit.
Each rez is different and they aren't that more restricted than anyone in the UK. We all live with restrictions. Living on a Reservation doesn't mean living a traditional life style. Few do, and those that do rarely would drink beer as it isn't traditional.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/28 13:02:39
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 13:28:43
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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mattyrm wrote: You can have an opinion without being a juror.
Do you think OJ did it? 
I honestly don't know enough about the issues facing Native Americans to intelligently comment on this, and am not interested enough to educate myself on the former, but as far as the OJ bit, man, he did that gak.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 13:45:47
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Rough Rider with Boomstick
Brisbane, Australia
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mattyrm wrote: Namely, throw money at it. Same with the NHS. Oh its broke, throw more money at it.
It doesnt work.
There's a similar issue with many Indigenous Australian communities here. Alcohol and poverty are really only a part of a massive problem that needs a lot more attention if it's going to be addressed properly.
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sebster wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Its a known fact that Aussies are genetically disposed towards crime, we intentionally set them up that way.
But only awesome crimes like bushranging and, if I understand the song correctly, sheep stealing and suicide. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 14:34:36
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau
USA
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So wait. The US government screws Native Americans and shoe horns them into cultural backwaters (reservations) causing many to suffer poor economic conditions and become drunks (among other things) and its beers fault?
I mean, if there were every a group that could blame all their problems (well, not all) on the government, its Native Americans XD
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 14:46:10
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Yes.
http://mashable.com/2012/03/13/apple-siri-lawsuit/
Man sues Apple because the voice recognition on his iPhone doesn't work like the advert shows.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 14:51:43
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Orlanth wrote:People on reservations have restrictions on what they can do. Living off the land etc, so sitting around chugging beers can more easily become a habit.
How do you get drunk on american beer anyway, its watered down baby piddle.
Actually several reservations have tried to ban alcohol. They move the package store 1" over the border and/or near easily accessible points such as bus routes. This isn't just setting up anywhere, it's sitting up where literally your only customers for miles would be from the rez, and these aren't just folks looking to "Knock back a few" for fun. These are addicts quite literally drinking themselves to death. The reservations can't get rid of the stuff, they've tried. You know that comically villainous drug peddler in "Education" anti-drug videos? The one that follows kids around and just won't take no for an answer until they buy product? The insane caricature that doesn't actually in real life? Disturbingly enough he pretty much almost does, when it comes to alcohol on reservations.See Whiteclay Nebraska etc..
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/28 14:52:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 14:52:43
Subject: Re:Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Fixture of Dakka
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1. Why are native Americans predisposed to serious alcoholism?
2. What can be done to combat it, when banning it hasn't worked, and banning sales to people on grounds of ethnicity is clearly ridiculous? And banning it for the Americans over the stateline would also clearly be unfair to the inhabitants that aren't native Americans!
3. Do you not think that the lawsuit is flagrantly taking the piss for what is essentially the tribes peoples own stupidity and self control?
There is a large indication that Native Americans produce lower levels of the enzyme that metabolizes alcohol, there is ALSO some indication that the genes responsible for the production of that enzyme are mutated in relatively narrow group, and that it is not just the presence but the type of enzyme that occurs that protects against alcoholism. The indication is that this mutation only occurs in Chinese, Japanese, and Native Americans. That's the science.
The other part is that living on the Rez sucks big hairy nuts. The Bureau of Indian Affairs is supposed to help the people, but were recently (well recently-ish)caught in a scandal where they denied farm loans to well qualified applicants without cause. Those farm loans, rather than being welfare, are pretty much how most family farms have the money to operate until harvest and are necessary to provide revenue on the Rez. I don't know if Pine Ridge is an agricultural community though. I do know that back in the 90's that Rez and the county it makes up like the entire population of was the poorest in the country, and number two behind another Rez county in the first decade of the 2000's. Most ,like 60%, of the Pine Ridge tribe lives in extreme poverty, something like 1/3 of the Rez are on food stamps and the USDA has a distribution center there for a free food for Indians program that is used in place of food stamps because of the lack of local groceries. That program is free to recipients. The truth is that cash welfare distribution is not widespread on the Rez and these people aren't rolling in dough. What they are is largely unemployed or underemployed with a lot of time and ver little money on their hands; which has lead to the same cycle of violence and alcoholism that effects most communities with similar problems. Bring them out of poverty is a lazy answer. The Rez needs to either have a developed infrastructure and working internal economy, or integrate the Rez with the local and state economy in a meaningful way.
2. They have already gone too far to try to combat it. The Rez is in modern prohibition, I seem to remember that didn't go so well for the country at large either. People are responsible for their own actions. If booze is illegal on the Rez and they travel off the Rez to buy and consume it. I have zero sympathy for their condition. The hurdles are in place and the jump them on their own. Being responsible for your own actions is rough, freedom is hard. No one needs to hold these people's hand.
3. I'll be genuinely surprised if the lawsuit isn't summarily dismissed. People making the questionable decision to fleece people put of what little money they have? Shut the front door! This will have as much success as a lawsuit by a trailerpark claiming that a payday loan store makes them poor and live check to check and still in debt. There's no plausible way to blame the beer distributors for the Indians problems, by engaging in the legal sale of their own products.
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Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 15:04:15
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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To be fair I would be quite happy to have adverts that actually somewhat relate to the truth, rather than some fantasy yarn about the product.
Regards the OP... well, I'd say if they really wanted to combat the problem of excessive drinking, they could, oh, I don't know, target people who drink? Anyone seen staggering around the reservation in the middle of the day gets sent to rehab. Anyone who wakes up covered in their own vomit gets sent to rehab, etc...
While they've cleared out 99% of the reservation, the remaining 1% of residents get cracking on building a community that will keep hands from being idle and bottles from being opened. Maybe that is building schools, maybe it is building connections to industry and academia - whatever will give people some meaning to their lives other than the one that comes out of a bottle.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 15:10:29
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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I think Chongara and AustonT have said all that really needs to be said here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 15:53:24
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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Aye as always me and Auston see things similarly.
The lack of sympathy for people that drink and the lack of sympathy for people that are obese are identical to me, and it stems from this simple fact.
Matty loves pies and Matty loves booze.
Seriously, professional victims seem to think that the rest of us dont struggle with the same urges?
I fething love sugar, I fething love fat. Most people do. If I could, then I would eat pies and ice cream and pizza every day, but funny thing, It gives me a fat arse, so I train hard and eat sparingly 5 days a week, so's I can get smashed and eat kebabs the other two and maintain 180lbs. When It goes past 185, then I go cold turkey until my jeans fit properly again. And ive done that since I was 21 and thought after a 6 week bender "hmm.. my jeans are too tight"
Booze is the exact same, I have no sympathy for drunks either because at the end of the day, you choose to get pissed, and everyone has an urge to get skull fethed occasionally.
As AT said, that's called freedom. Suck on it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/28 15:53:47
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 18:09:21
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Speedy Swiftclaw Biker
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I wish the tribe the very best of luck in their lawsuit against the liquor store owners. Setting up shop right next to the reservation with a sky-high alcoholism rate is the kind of cartoonish supervillainy I'd expect from a Captain Planet episode.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 18:24:11
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Member of the Ethereal Council
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Reminds me of the time someone said twinkies caused him to kill the mayor of san francisco
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 18:31:13
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Focused Fire Warrior
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I am a native american, so I have a bias here, I also have an understanding of the relationship between us and the outside world that many here will never quite get. Lets face it, no matter how well someone can describe the situation on reservations there is no way anyone from the outside can fully understand the actual hardships we go through. Can anyone who is not black fully understand how dominant culture psychologically affects black people as outlined by Frantz Fanon? With that being said, this tribe has made measures to limit the alcohol abuse on the Pine Ridge Reservation and in response the companies have combated the tribes decision in order to favor sales over the overall well being of the native people. And to clarify, not all tribes receive stipends from the government. We do not get "money thrown at us" we apply for the same grants and loans other government agencies, schools and corporations are vying for. Being in the loop this is old news to me, Many reservations have issues with alcoholism, most are not nearly as bad as Pine Ridge. I am more interested in water rights for the Hopi and the current fiasco the US government is putting them through. I am guessing that is also unheard of by many.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/29 00:43:00
Ikasarete Iru
Graffiti from Pompeii: VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1882: The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
Xenophanes: "If horses had Gods, they would look like horses!"
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 18:35:07
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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J-Roc77 wrote:I am a native american, so I have a bias here, I also have an understanding of the relationship between us and the outside world that many here will never quite get. Lets face it, no matter how well someone can describe the situation on reservations there is no way anyone from the outside can fully understand the actual hardships we go through. Can anyone who is not black fully understand how dominant culture psychologically affects black people as outlined by Frantz Fanon? With that being said, this tribe has made measures to limit the alcohol abuse on the Pine Ridge Reservation and in response the companies have combated the tribes decision in favor of keeping sales over the overall well being of the people. And to clarify, not all tribes receive stipends from the government. We do not get "money thrown at us" we apply for the same grants and loans other government agencies, schools and corporations are vying for.
Being in the loop this is old news to me, Many reservations have issues with alcoholism, most are not nearly as bad as Pine Ridge. I am more interested in water rights for the Hopi and the current fiasco the US government is putting them through. I am guessing that is also unheard of by many.
Interesting, so what is your opinion as the reason why native Americans seem to struggle more with addiction? I always thought that If I was poor I would spend even less on beer because I cant afford it after buying food!
Do you think there is a cultural thing? Like do you lads start drinking early? Or do you have a lot of social gatherings where drinking to excess is encouraged? You must have a theory surely?
I mean, I've had several Irish alcoholics in my blood line, I don't believe that it means I am a slave to my boozing tendencies!
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We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 20:31:52
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Fixture of Dakka
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mattyrm wrote: According to the missus, they do get money thrown at them, and this is what is causing the problem in the first place. Its the same here, like most left leaning people you have a very simplistic idea of how to fix an issue.
Namely, throw money at it. Same with the NHS. Oh its broke, throw more money at it.
It doesnt work.
If I go to the sink estate across the street and give a bloke £20,000, he wont invest it. He wont save it, he wont put it in an ISA and he wont send his kids to college, he will spend it on fags and special brew.
And they must have cash, if they buy gak loads of beer every day surely? They don't appear to be stealing it, and I work full time and couldn't afford to get smashed on beer 7 days a week, they arent drinking home brew or spirits, they are mass buying beer.
So rather than be pithy, why not explain to me what your grand plan is for raising them out of poverty, rather than stating the obvious.
Oh aBnd regards the story, do you support their claim to be given millions of dollars for buying a product that is freely available?
I know that the Paiutes down in Moapa, Nevada, get 100,000 dollars given to them when they turn 18.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/04/28 20:39:59
Subject: Have you ever seen a more frivolous lawsuit?
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Focused Fire Warrior
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mattyrm wrote: Interesting, so what is your opinion as the reason why native Americans seem to struggle more with addiction? I always thought that If I was poor I would spend even less on beer because I cant afford it after buying food! As a whole many natives are low income or living in poverty. We are being over represented as having these issues connected to our ethnicity rather than an issue connected to poverty. For the governing bodies it is easier to qualify a group of people as having addictions rather than having symptoms of low income and poverty imposed by the governing group. As for being poor and spending less on alcohol I agree, however that is not the nature of those addicted. Now I am not saying there is no connection for how natives have food issues and ethnicity. There are issues such as obesity, diabetes, lactose intolerance, and alcoholism. You have to realize the diet of indigenous people has been greatly altered in the past few hundred years, many staple foods of our diets have been replaced by those that are less healthy. Do you think there is a cultural thing? Like do you lads start drinking early? Or do you have a lot of social gatherings where drinking to excess is encouraged? You must have a theory surely? I think it has less to do with being native as the stereotype and more of a symptom of poverty. I guess I answered that above. Do poor natives drink and party more than other poor demographics? As for acceptance at social gatherings, at powwows drinking is looked down upon by many of the attendees however it still happens. It is not out in the open, but in trucks or tents, or even at the bar down the way before and after the powwow. mean, I've had several Irish alcoholics in my blood line, I don't believe that it means I am a slave to my boozing tendencies! I am part Irish too, I should be a hell of a drinker! There is a tendency that minorities represent the whole of their people by a connection, sometimes negative connection. In fact I would say I am no more a slave to the booze than you, however as a native I am doing quite well not living in poverty etc. I am not in the same situation as many others with my background. I would assume your situation or influencing factors differ much from your drinking relatives as well. Automatically Appended Next Post: Relapse wrote: I know that the Paiutes down in Moapa, Nevada, get 100,000 dollars given to them when they turn 18. Yup some tribes get money for different reasons, none of which is just because we are Indian. The tribe I grew up with (I never lived on my reservation, only others) gets 20k when they turn 18, kind of.... The government leases a HUGE chunk of the reservation. These tribal members get "rent" each year, if you are under 18 they put it in an account for you. The amount of these payments depends on how much the government values their land at, and then that gets divvied up by how many members are enrolled. That is around 1k a year per person for resignation of their fishing, hunting, and land use rights of a large area that was agreed upon previously to be the tribes. This tribe being a fishing tribe and the Dam changed all of the fishing and hunting grounds for these people, in short 1k a year to find another way to feed the family and be assimilated into the imposing culture. I am sure the Paiutes have a similar set up, they have much lower membership than other tribes as well making their payout higher. I would not put too much faith in the 100k number though, I am often told how rich I am due to my tribe when in fact I am not. That is a minority of the tribes, most tribes do not get these benefits as the land they were allotted was either taken again (Black Hills) or had little to no value. My tribe for instance gets no payments of this sort which is the more common scenario.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/04/28 21:53:19
Ikasarete Iru
Graffiti from Pompeii: VIII.2 (in the basilica); 1882: The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
Xenophanes: "If horses had Gods, they would look like horses!"
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