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As a new Ork player I quickly have come to the realization that setting your charges up and assaulting is one of the most important keys to victory. So, as being new, I have had only limited exposure to enemy armies, and I was wondering if I could get some feedback and discussion about what enemy squads are bad to assault as orks and maybe some counter tactics for those more difficult assaults.\
I was thinking the GK purifier squad is a good example of a squad you wouldn't want to assault but i could be wrong.

Ack, sorry what is a PK?

Well, what about Sanguinary Guard?

I don't know a 10 assault termi squad with 8/lc and 2 stormshields that gets the charge will eat through that squad pretty easily, so will large purifier squads, there are more i'm sure of as well

Assault Termies, Lychguard, maybe Genestealers...

Those Grey Knights with the flame power definitely come to mind.

GK Purifiers are the bane of Ork squads. You'll lose almost half of your models before you even swing. Large BA Assault squads with FNP will also be a tough battle for you - even if you get the charge. Genestealers are another no go - although large broods of hormogaunts could also spell trouble - especially if they are buffed up with psychic powers. Large Kroot squads (especially with hounds) are trouble if you're trying to charge them in cover (where they'll usually be.

Other than that, I can't think of a lot of problems other than the usual huge deathstars like Thunderwolves, massive BA Assault Termie squads, and so on and so forth.

- Bloodcrushers
- Genestealers
- Berzerkers
- Paladins with wound allocation shenanigans
- Purifiers
- Blood Talon Furiouso
- Lightning Claw Termies
- Thunderwolves with wound allocation shenanigans

I think that's it. I'm not including BA Assault Marines because:

1. They only have 1 attack base per model, which doesn't scare you that much.
2. You sort of negate their FNP from weight of die.

AresX8 wrote:- Bloodcrushers
- Genestealers
- Berzerkers
- Paladins
- Purifiers with wound allocation shenanigans
- Blood Talon Furiouso
- Lightning Claw Termies
- Thunderwolves with wound allocation shenanigans

I think that's it. I'm not including BA Assault Marines because:

1. They only have 1 attack base per model, which doesn't scare you that much.
2. You sort of negate their FNP from weight of die.

No Lychguard?

Orks don't care about Lychguard for a few reasons:

1. The Orks go FIRST. Rare, but yes, they go first.
2. Lychguard have 2 attacks base on WS4. That means a full unit should hit 10 times, assuming they're all intact. Plus, you don't care about their power weapons since you have a t-shirt save already.

What scares Boyz is high I attacks with a decent amount of base attacks (at least 2), or multiple wound units.

AresX8 wrote:Orks don't care about Lychguard for a few reasons:

1. The Orks go FIRST. Rare, but yes, they go first.
2. Lychguard have 2 attacks base on WS4. That means a full unit should hit 10 times, assuming they're all intact. Plus, you don't care about their power weapons since you have a t-shirt save already.

What scares Boyz is high I attacks with a decent amount of base attacks (at least 2), or multiple wound units.

Makes sense.

bloodbrides with the right drug is murder for orks
grotesques(bigger and tougher)
Wracks

Most of them have already been said. I will throw in the fact that if you don't get the charge, you'll be extremely surprised how fast those boyz evaporate, as will their effectiveness.

Once again, dead hard and dedicated CC units such as paladins, TH/SS termies and TWC will eat boyz alive in almost any situation if they're set up right.

Purifiers in groups of 5 will kill a lot of your boyz but will likely lose combat if you get the charge. A full squad of ten kitted out for CC is like sending your boyz into a blender.

There is a fair amount 20 orkz and a pk cant beat. Hormagaunts are a big deterent, they'll plough through the orkz if they get the charge.

Also bear in mind things such as Land speeders. You're orkz will never catch them with the pk, and mass heavy bolter/frag missles will be a constant hassle.

AresX8 wrote:- Bloodcrushers
- Genestealers
- Berzerkers
- Paladins with wound allocation shenanigans
- Purifiers
- Blood Talon Furiouso
- Lightning Claw Termies
- Thunderwolves with wound allocation shenanigans

I think that's it. I'm not including BA Assault Marines because:

1. They only have 1 attack base per model, which doesn't scare you that much.
2. You sort of negate their FNP from weight of die.

2 attacks per marine for CCW+Pistol, 3 each on the charge, wounding orks on 3+ with FC.
10 BA assault marines plus priest support wipe the floor with 20+ orks easily. superior movement means BA will more likely have the charge off.

Anything with a lot of potential to do lots of wounds.

Jackster wrote:

AresX8 wrote:- Bloodcrushers
- Genestealers
- Berzerkers
- Paladins with wound allocation shenanigans
- Purifiers
- Blood Talon Furiouso
- Lightning Claw Termies
- Thunderwolves with wound allocation shenanigans

I think that's it. I'm not including BA Assault Marines because:

1. They only have 1 attack base per model, which doesn't scare you that much.
2. You sort of negate their FNP from weight of die.

2 attacks per marine for CCW+Pistol, 3 each on the charge, wounding orks on 3+ with FC.
10 BA assault marines plus priest support wipe the floor with 20+ orks easily. superior movement means BA will more likely have the charge off.

Read the OP. This is the scenario of the Orks charging. And BA Marines have 1 attack base, look at their statline. They gain a BONUS attack from having two normal CCWs (CCW and Pistol).

10 GH with Mark of the Wulfen and a Wolf Standard. A bonus attack from BPs, Counter-Attack, d6+1 Rending attacks, and they get to reroll all for the duration of one Assault phase. Those Orks will melt like snow in summer.

AresX8 wrote:

Jackster wrote:

AresX8 wrote:- Bloodcrushers
- Genestealers
- Berzerkers
- Paladins with wound allocation shenanigans
- Purifiers
- Blood Talon Furiouso
- Lightning Claw Termies
- Thunderwolves with wound allocation shenanigans

I think that's it. I'm not including BA Assault Marines because:

1. They only have 1 attack base per model, which doesn't scare you that much.
2. You sort of negate their FNP from weight of die.

2 attacks per marine for CCW+Pistol, 3 each on the charge, wounding orks on 3+ with FC.
10 BA assault marines plus priest support wipe the floor with 20+ orks easily. superior movement means BA will more likely have the charge off.

Read the OP. This is the scenario of the Orks charging. And BA Marines have 1 attack base, look at their statline. They gain a BONUS attack from having two normal CCWs (CCW and Pistol).

So I stand corrected. I SAID they have 2 attacks with 2 CCW.
You are underestimating the FNP plus 3+ save too much. The two combine give you close to 2+ save. BA hit first so there will be a some dead orks before orks attack. Then in subsequent rounds orks are wounding the marines on 5+.
Having fought quite a few times against orks with BA, my assault squad held almost every single time they get charge by ork boyz. Though usually BA gets the charge.

if 20 boyz(with Nob) charge 10 assault marines(say the sergeant has a PW) the average results are as follows. For argument we will say 2 of the assault marines have flamers/melta guns(and so don't have a 2nd CCW)

16 regular attacks. (1/2)(1/2)(5/6)=3 dead orks

3 attacks from sergeant kill another boy.


assuming all orks get their attacks.

60(.5)(.5)(1/3)(.5)= 2.5 dead marines

4 attacks from Nob kill another 2 marines

Orks barely win combat when they charge 10 Assault Marines, a highly unlikely scenerio as only a truly horrible player would let a mob of Boyz get the drop on 10 assault marines.

Grey Templar wrote:Orks barely win combat when they charge 10 Assault Marines, a highly unlikely scenerio as only a truly horrible player would let a mob of Boyz get the drop on 10 assault marines.

That's like saying only a terrible leader would get wet from the tide while standing on a beach.

It's not like the Boys are going to ambush your marines: the boys will be seem coming. But there will be so many that they get to you anyway.

azazel the cat wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Orks barely win combat when they charge 10 Assault Marines, a highly unlikely scenerio as only a truly horrible player would let a mob of Boyz get the drop on 10 assault marines.

That's like saying only a terrible leader would get wet from the tide while standing on a beach.

It's not like the Boys are going to ambush your marines: the boys will be seem coming. But there will be so many that they get to you anyway.

I mean it happens. If the Assault marines fail their difficult terrain when chargin last turn, if the orks WAAAAGGH, if the assault marrines just finished whiping another squad or if the boys were inside a battle wagon to name a few.

You've also got to be careful not to make the mistake of thinking of charging as being limited to the turn you get into close combat.

For example, if you charge an imperial guard blob, you're going to get first rank fired twice before you get there. In this case, a 30-man blob is going to get to put down up to 135 S3 attacks on you before you make it into close combat, and another 30 when you charge them (that only go off simultaneously). It's very possible for an opponent's mass of infantry to put down too many casualties before you get to swing, but to do it including the turns before the actual assault begins.

Just something to be aware of.

6 Fiends might give orks a run for their money.

Yeah... A tooled-up powerblob would do it. 45 guardsmen, 5 sergeants w/PW, 5 commissars w/pw. That's 65 attacks, 20 of them PW, before you strike. Simultaneous if you WAAGH! against your puny 60 attacks and 4 PK (that goes last).

Yeah, you'd win the combat every time due to WS3 S3 T3, but you'd keep winning and winning until you were dead.

Keeping in mind Ailaros' point, your orks would be very lucky to even get there unmolested. Especially in the unlucky scenario where your last move puts you 13 inches away from the blob, which moves 2 inches, FRFSRF.... mathammer states they'd all be either dead or running - 23 wounds to save on a 6+, plus 2 dead outright from the commissars... unless you're in cover or 'ard boyz.

The first counter tactic is to soften up squads that will wreck you in assault before you assault them with shooting. Grotzookas, buckets of shoota fire, skorchas/burnas. 8 khorn berzerkers can handle 20 orks, 4 khorne berzerkers cannot. If the enemy squad is an assault squad, try to get it below half strength before you assault. The other strategy to use is more orks. This works wonders if you can assault with 2 or 3 squads (be sure you win the combat and don't get multicharged the next turn, or you will die to no retreat wounds). You never want to really charge purifiers, plan on losing more than half your boys before they swing on you, and if you lose the assault you will lose by alot and take fearless wounds most likely, or run away and get killed.

The other tactic to avoid mass casualties while running in is cover saves, or hanging out in battlewagons. Kans offer a 4+ cover save for orks behind them, and they can be kitted out to be antiinfantry if you need them to be (grotzookas can do stupid good things). The battlewagons will greatly increase your odds of getting there unscratched, and causing some damage// splitting huge blobs of troops up (just watch out for melta weapons). which can give you an edge and protection from incoming fire the next turn. Then you can consider grot screens, which works similar to kans, but is cheaper.

This is why most ork lists that are talked about positively fall into 3 categories
1. Green Tide
2. Kan wall
3. Battlewagon bash

You would have to worry about the 30 guardsmen, which if kitted out right will cost close to as much as 2 20 man squads of orks, which statistically will send one squad of boys running away if not totally dead. Your puny 60 attacks and 4 pk hits would be more like 80ish attacks in total (2+1+1) if you are using slugga boyz and just running forward until you can waagh in, so you will still do some damage, but don't expect to win decisively (anticipate slight loss) against 30 guardsman with pw commissars and sgts.

gpfunk wrote:Most of them have already been said. I will throw in the fact that if you don't get the charge, you'll be extremely surprised how fast those boyz evaporate, as will their effectiveness.

Once again, dead hard and dedicated CC units such as paladins, TH/SS termies and TWC will eat boyz alive in almost any situation if they're set up right.

Purifiers in groups of 5 will kill a lot of your boyz but will likely lose combat if you get the charge. A full squad of ten kitted out for CC is like sending your boyz into a blender.

I disagree on two things. First of all, TH/SS terminators really don't do much against boyz. Eight of them will most likely get crushed by the weight of attacks, as the don't get to deal any casualties before the orks strike, so you'd lose about three before getting to do damage at all, and probably another one to the klaw. You kill only about four in return, and it gets downhill from there. LC terminators are scary, TH are not. Neither the thunderhammer nor the stormshield pose any major advantage over boyz.
Second, five purifiers will might still die to the mob of 20, there are about 12 orks left after the flame, and then they kill another three or so. After that, it's eight boyz and a pk vs five regular marines, have seen worse odds.
Not saying you should charge boyz into them, but it's not like they can't take them down.

Jackster wrote:So I stand corrected. I SAID they have 2 attacks with 2 CCW.
You are underestimating the FNP plus 3+ save too much. The two combine give you close to 2+ save. BA hit first so there will be a some dead orks before orks attack.

So, they are exactly like terminators, except that they don't get invul saves vs the klaw. Boyz are great at killing terminators without LCs.

Then in subsequent rounds orks are wounding the marines on 5+.
Having fought quite a few times against orks with BA, my assault squad held almost every single time they get charge by ork boyz. Though usually BA gets the charge.

Orks are universally screwed if they get charged, that doesn't have anything to do with your BA (jumpers I assume).
"Usually" is really a measurement of your opponent's skill. You've got 18" assault range, orks have 12"+d6 unless thrakka is present, so you usually should get the charge.
There are ways to keep even super-fast assault units like BA or DE off your backs, kanz and battlewagons being the most prominent ones, but blocking with buggies or old-fashioned wall of gretchin work, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AresX8 wrote:- Bloodcrushers
- Genestealers
- Berzerkers
- Paladins with wound allocation shenanigans
- Purifiers
- Blood Talon Furiouso
- Lightning Claw Termies
- Thunderwolves with wound allocation shenanigans

I think that's it. I'm not including BA Assault Marines because:

1. They only have 1 attack base per model, which doesn't scare you that much.
2. You sort of negate their FNP from weight of die.

Agree on every one of those, and want to add some more uncommon ones:
- Eldar Council (jetbikes optional)
- Striking Scropions (especially if fortuned)
- Ogryns
- Tyrant Guard (attached Hive Tyrant optional)
- Trygons
- Raveneer Broods
- Black Templar Command Squads
- Nobz (especially on bikes)
- 'ard boyz (really, it's close to impossible to win against them with regular boyz)

the only thing you really want to avoid charging is a paladin unit with draigo.

Its also important to understand what a multi assault is, as orks with their attacks can pretty much kill anything.

Vanlla Termies and TH/SH termies really offer no challenge to boyz charging as stated. LC Termies are terrifying.

Most MC's suffer as well, due to high number of bodies to soak up the MC's attacks, and the hidden PK to tear through the MC's wounds.

In general, I'd agree with the list AresX8 and Jidmah provide,

purifiers have lead me to really like using all shoota boyz. even with BS2, enough shoots dumped in there will enough wounds on most small squads of purifiers to really make them fairly ineffective. I would often break out some kans or w/e to mop up the last guys.

a 5 man warrior squad on venom with blaster. the warriors stay away from them and shower those boys with splinter fire untill they go away.

otherwise counter charge with a full unit of wyches and an attached haemy with liquifier gun. that flamer will melt those orcs but quick.

heck anything with a flamer. that land raider with a par of them would work pretty good, a unit of stergaurds with cvombi flamers... 20 boyz by themselves is not a scary proposistion.