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Crowe lists are based on Purifier units as a core, like

5 Purifiers w/ psycannon (x2), halberd(x2), daemon hammer (x1), Rhino.

Dreads and Dreadknights w/ incinerator, teleporter are good complementary units; Dreads mainly for shooting and DK's mainly for speed and cc.

What kind of army would you prefer at the 1750 pt level:

I. Crowe
4x 5 Purifers (as above)
2 venerable Psyfleman Dreads
3 Psyflemen Dreads

II. Crowe
4x 5 Purifiers (as above)
2 Dreadknights
1venerable Psyfleman Dread
1 Pysflmen Dread

III. Crowe
4x 5 Purifiers (as above)
Vindicare
3 Dreadknights

Dreadknights are generally not considered a very competitive unit. They are decent and a ton of fun, but they die surprisingly fast.


The vindicare is good, but in general I only run him when I also have a Techmarine in my list. Between the two of them, the vidicare gets a 2+ cover save which means people are very hesitant to even shoot at him at all, and if they do he is well protected.

I think list 2 will do best, provided you have enough transport to get your vehicles in position while the dradknights take out the most threatening targets and absorb firepower, only DE will have a realistic chance of killing both by turn 2 so they will be very annoying for the enemy, especially with the heavy incinerator.

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:I think list 2 will do best, provided you have enough transport to get your vehicles in position while the dradknights take out the most threatening targets and absorb firepower, only DE will have a realistic chance of killing both by turn 2 so they will be very annoying for the enemy, especially with the heavy incinerator.

DE will hate the first list though. 5 dreads!

I've played list two before and it is pretty effective. I don't play any hammers though. They are pretty unnecessary on 5 man units. I also played a strike squad to deep strike and grab objective late game as the list lacks mobility.

Also, I think the notion that dreadknights are not competitive has pretty much gone away. Dreadknights are an amazingly flexible and resilient unit if used right. And if Dark eldar are focusing on your dreadknights, then you have either already lost everything else that can take down their boats or they are bad.

Dok wrote:
Also, I think the notion that dreadknights are not competitive has pretty much gone away. Dreadknights are an amazingly flexible and resilient unit if used right. And if Dark eldar are focusing on your dreadknights, then you have either already lost everything else that can take down their boats or they are bad.

With everything in psybacks the only thing DE can shoot their splinter weapons at is the dreadknight, and its big and hard to hide completely. So you either leave the DK home and then the splinter weaponry has nothign to shoot at or you bring it and your DE player smiles at you, rolls a ton of posioned dice and tells your DK to take 24 armor saves. Every DK is a Psyrifleman you dont have as your list ideas so clearly point out.

The cool thing about that is that it takes 6 venoms to mathematically put that many saves on a dreadknight. If you deploy your dreadknights behind your tanks so that they have to close within 36" then they have shot a good portion of their army at 1 dreadknight. Then on your turn, you can move up, disembark and kill everyone of those venoms with razorbacks, psycannons, and dreadnoughts. And you still have one dreadknight that can shunt into their lines and lay the incinertor template across multiple tanks and have a chance to wreck them. Or you lay it across all the warriors and trueborn you just busted out of their venoms and kill them on 2+.
Then on their turn, they have to focus their anti-tank on him or he is going to wreck more stuff. Trading 6+ for 1 is generally ok I heard. And then there will be all those games where you're not playing against DE and they will be super difficult to kill.

Just shunt the DK, and heavy Incinerator the nice line of vehicles that DE love to make

Well, I'm still undecided what list (I or II) to field at Saturday.

How about the Dread heavy list I with 2 venerable Dreads (with fist and assault cannon) instead of 2 venerable Psyfleman Dreads? These Dreads will go up close and personal and here fists are quite handy.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I'm still undecided what list (I or II) to field at Saturday.

How about the Dread heavy list I with 2 venerable Dreads (with fist and assault cannon) instead of 2 venerable Psyfleman Dreads? These Dreads will go up close and personal and here fists are quite handy.

Why would you take an Assault cannon dread in a Purifier list? The thing that a purifier list lacks is long range AT not rending shots.

tedurur wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I'm still undecided what list (I or II) to field at Saturday.

How about the Dread heavy list I with 2 venerable Dreads (with fist and assault cannon) instead of 2 venerable Psyfleman Dreads? These Dreads will go up close and personal and here fists are quite handy.

Why would you take an Assault cannon dread in a Purifier list? The thing that a purifier list lacks is long range AT not rending shots.

Well, the Purifiers have to go rather close to the enemy, with 24''. Assault cannon Dreads have the same range and could support them in cc if necessary.

You should have an option for none. I would take more purifiers and 3/4 dreads maximum.

Bacms wrote:You should have an option for none. I would take more purifiers and 3/4 dreads maximum.

In fact, you could take out one venerable Dread and add another Purifier squad. But this will generally not shift things into another direction.

wuestenfux wrote:

Bacms wrote:You should have an option for none. I would take more purifiers and 3/4 dreads maximum.

In fact, you could take out one venerable Dread and add another Purifier squad. But this will generally not shift things into another direction.

I don't play Grey Knights but I generally play against them and for my experience 4 units of Purifiers will not be enough. I do play against them in Razors though which means they will have to pop out to shoot. But normally when I get in range of them destroying 5 Purifiers is kind of fast. You can normally destroy 2/3 in a round of shooting at least per each unit of troops your army has.

Bacms wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:

Bacms wrote:You should have an option for none. I would take more purifiers and 3/4 dreads maximum.

In fact, you could take out one venerable Dread and add another Purifier squad. But this will generally not shift things into another direction.

I don't play Grey Knights but I generally play against them and for my experience 4 units of Purifiers will not be enough. I do play against them in Razors though which means they will have to pop out to shoot. But normally when I get in range of them destroying 5 Purifiers is kind of fast. You can normally destroy 2/3 in a round of shooting at least per each unit of troops your army has.

Well, the Purifiers will generally stay inside the Rhinos. I agree that a 5 men MEQ unit is not too hard to kill. What army do you play?

I play Orks more precisely a Killa Kan wall. You can see the progress of my army here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/448508.page

Bacms wrote:I play Orks more precisely a Killa Kan wall. You can see the progress of my army here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/448508.page

Okay, I know this kind of army, played an RTT with it, won it and then shelved them.

wuestenfux wrote:

Bacms wrote:I play Orks more precisely a Killa Kan wall. You can see the progress of my army here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/448508.page

Okay, I know this kind of army, played an RTT with it, won it and then shelved them.

Any specific reason for shelving it? At low points it is one of the most efficient ork builds and played well can get you far. You just lack some long range anti tank which can be paper scissor against some builds

The core of your army are the purifiers. Dreads and DK's are the support units. You need to build on the foundation. I'd go for:

IV. Crowe
5x5 Purifiers (minus 1 hammer)
2x Vendreads
2x Dreads

Dok wrote:The cool thing about that is that it takes 6 venoms to mathematically put that many saves on a dreadknight. If you deploy your dreadknights behind your tanks so that they have to close within 36" then they have shot a good portion of their army at 1 dreadknight. Then on your turn, you can move up, disembark and kill everyone of those venoms with razorbacks, psycannons, and dreadnoughts. And you still have one dreadknight that can shunt into their lines and lay the incinertor template across multiple tanks and have a chance to wreck them. Or you lay it across all the warriors and trueborn you just busted out of their venoms and kill them on 2+.
Then on their turn, they have to focus their anti-tank on him or he is going to wreck more stuff. Trading 6+ for 1 is generally ok I heard. And then there will be all those games where you're not playing against DE and they will be super difficult to kill.

I dont know many generals who are going to run up into range to hit a DK that is all the way at the back of your army. Even with shunt they dont have that much range. As I said each DK is one less Psirifleman and with few rifleman most DE are just going to sit back and blast the weapons off/immobilize GK vehicles on the edges. Even with fortitude with enough shots you can surpress GK return fire. They might even kill something.
Psibacks are nasty but not nearly as bad as rifleman.
Even if DKs get up close and in CC, wyches can tarpit and eventually kill them rather easily.


In addition these lists above dont have psibacks. I would love to face the third army, with no rifleman, nothing in the army(save the vindi) has more than 24" range which gets turned into 18" with night shields. Skimmers can just sit back and pound away while the rhinos race up and are thinned by dark lances.