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I have used him on occasion agaisnt my friend and on the odd occasion, he has annoyed my friend, and yesterday he told me that Teclis was banned, Is this actually true?

No. Your friend lied.

Let the magic begin!

He, along with all Special Characters, is often banned from tournaments. Its a pretty common rule with Tournaments. They are generally the first thing to get changed for a Tournament.

Lots of Clubs also have house rules banning special characters.


But in general, No, Teclis is not banned or deleted from the HE army book. He is the one thing that actually allows HEs to be a very good army. OP even. Without him however they really become kinda lame.

Technically he is not officially

BUT remember that at any moment a player may not play you for a list composition

kenshin620 wrote:Technically he is not officially

BUT remember that at any moment a player may not play you for a list composition

The rule about needing opponent permission for special characters died with 6th edition.

It is generally understood that taking Teclis is a bad thing. He is woefully overpowered and underpriced. Many clubs and tourneys also ban the Book of Hoeth.

HE can still be plenty powerful and fun without him.

Aerethan wrote:

The rule about needing opponent permission for special characters died with 6th edition.
.

I meant in more of a "friendly matter"

If a player is uncomfortable with playing you, they have all the right to not play you unless forced to do so such as a tournament paring. It doesnt just have to be SC. Some people may flat out refuse to play against a certain army.

Simply refusing to play an entire army, regardless of the list taken is childish. Then again I don't really play against children as most of them stick to 40k and leave WFB to the big boys.

I can understand refusing to play against Teclis or Kairos lists in friendly games, but at least play against those characters once to see them in action.

Well not to sound whiny but if there were two HE armies available to play and one had teclis, I think I'd take my chances with the non teclis one

Don't get me wrong, I agree. I'd rather play a terribly gimped army than take some crutch that is mandatory to win(not that HE are gimped).

Taking teclis is bad form. We'll see if they make him less OP or bump up his price in the next book.

Generally people buy an army and the book for it so they can play whatever they like from the book, having people say "oh that units too hard you cant use it" is pretty lame.

I find it funny when HE players try to defend him.

Myself and Jubear are both HE players and both of us agree that he is stupid.

People can rationalize it all they want, but Teclis is a crutch.

Aerethan wrote:Simply refusing to play an entire army, regardless of the list taken is childish. Then again I don't really play against children as most of them stick to 40k and leave WFB to the big boys.

Simply refusing to play against any army, or any specific model is childish. What's needed is for players to enter into a conversation in which they come to general terms on the certain power levels that produce the best games for them, and then refining that understanding as they play more games.

Unfortunately, that requires a modest level of social skills beyond a significant portion of the Warhammer crowd, which is why there are endless debates over this same stupid nonsense.

Aerethan wrote:I find it funny when HE players try to defend him.

Myself and Jubear are both HE players and both of us agree that he is stupid.

People can rationalize it all they want, but Teclis is a crutch.

The point was more any model, not specifically Teclis as you also mentioned Kairos.

sebster wrote:

Aerethan wrote:Simply refusing to play an entire army, regardless of the list taken is childish. Then again I don't really play against children as most of them stick to 40k and leave WFB to the big boys.

Simply refusing to play against any army, or any specific model is childish. What's needed is for players to enter into a conversation in which they come to general terms on the certain power levels that produce the best games for them, and then refining that understanding as they play more games.

That would be ideal, its really not hard to talk to people.

I dont think Iv ever gone to play a game with someone only to be refused because I have a certain character or unit.

Aerethan wrote:I find it funny when HE players try to defend him.

Myself and Jubear are both HE players and both of us agree that he is stupid.

People can rationalize it all they want, but Teclis is a crutch.

QFT.

Its no fun for anyone in involved if Teclis takes the field. And as much as I like winning and playing competive warhammer the objective is to have fun at all cost not to win at all cost.

In NZ, all Special characters are banned from 90% of tournaments cept for the fluffy ones. But speaking off that, our big Southern North Island one "Call to Arms" are allowing them with the exception of some just not being allowed. Like Thorik Ironbrow and his Anvil.

There all just haters...

No he is not, and people who struggel to beat a army that is dependant on a single SC really need to get a grip.

Trondheim wrote:No he is not, and people who struggel to beat a army that is dependant on a single SC really need to get a grip.

Ok I will just field Teclis in a huge unit of PG with the banner of the world dragon and plonk that behind the mandatory core. Good fething luck getting points outta of my army and have fun while a dwellers you every turn (thast you cant stop) and buff all my stuff. Teclis isnt scary if your opponent is pants on head stupid and puts him in a positon where you can get to him but no one is really that bad at the game.

It is banned at most Tournaments.

What really should be banned is Teclis + BotWD Pheonix Guard.

Teclis isn't bad but then again I've only faced Teclis using Lore of Life. I shudder to think what happens if he's using Shadow.

Aerethan wrote:I can understand refusing to play against Teclis or Kairos lists in friendly games, but at least play against those characters once to see them in action.

Hey, don't lump chickenman with Teclis. A 625 point monster that can't be bunkered and can be engaged in cc (or at least forced to fly far away) is a whole lot of penalties.

Simply refusing to play against any army, or any specific model is childish. What's needed is for players to enter into a conversation in which they come to general terms on the certain power levels that produce the best games for them, and then refining that understanding as they play more games.

Unfortunately, that requires a modest level of social skills beyond a significant portion of the Warhammer crowd, which is why there are endless debates over this same stupid nonsense.

Ignoring play vs. a model is more realistic. I think 8th has gone far to make the game more balanced, but it's obviously not perfect and there's some stuff that's simply silly. Likewise if you're going for a friendly game, I can see not wanting to play an uber competitive list. If you only got a short time, you don't want to waste it with double a-bombs and such. And you can say, yes, that's your fault for not building a competitive army, but you have the right to play who and how you want. There's nothing wrong with searching for opponents who share a similar game style (competitive vs. casual vs. naked). If you want to make a theme army and have fun doing that, it's not childish to want to avoid people who are looking for every loophole in the game when they build lists. What I find more childish is when the competitive players seem to thrive off playing non-competitive lists.

Grey Templar wrote:What really should be banned is Teclis + BotWD Pheonix Guard.

Teclis isn't bad but then again I've only faced Teclis using Lore of Life. I shudder to think what happens if he's using Shadow.

it's a nasty combo, but beatable if you have the right army. My all khorne daemons took it to town no problem at 3k. I had dual Daemon Prince a rocking. But for a lot of other lists it's uphill.

Teclis is in a completely different catagory that KArios. Teclis gets things through with sheer will and you can't stop it. KArios makes you have to choose what you can stop with a +6 to cast he can be rediculiously efficent at supporting many combats through bubbled pha's, soul blight ect. and if a cannon is on the field you can bet pha's is being cast every turn. And he can't be hidden, made immune to magic, or get a LOS.

Hey, don't lump chickenman with Teclis. A 625 point monster that can't be bunkered and can be engaged in cc (or at least forced to fly far away) is a whole lot of penalties.

I would agree..Until you remember he has everything from Lore of Tzeentch as well, gleam spell combined with all his pick and choose spells..

There's a reason why he's brought up next to Teclis, as he's almost as powerful.

I agree he's "almost as powerful."

But Teclis costs 475 and Kairos costs 625. And he's still not as good. Teclis is horrendously undercosted.

I agree that Kairos is a tad easier to digest. Plus only the big games get to field him

sebster wrote:

Aerethan wrote:Simply refusing to play an entire army, regardless of the list taken is childish. Then again I don't really play against children as most of them stick to 40k and leave WFB to the big boys.

Simply refusing to play against any army, or any specific model is childish. What's needed is for players to enter into a conversation in which they come to general terms on the certain power levels that produce the best games for them, and then refining that understanding as they play more games.

Unfortunately, that requires a modest level of social skills beyond a significant portion of the Warhammer crowd, which is why there are endless debates over this same stupid nonsense.

It doesnt even have to be game rules wise. There are people there that will never play against proxies (even if its good/excusable) or unpainted armies

As a high elf player, i abhor the use of Teclis. Don't be a pansy and play instead of lol throw dice at super big spells of doom.

The only time he gets busted out is if a player in the club needs to be taught a lesson.

Dwarf lists with thorek, hand gunner spam and 8+ warmachines

Dark Elves with a ll the nastys.

I play in a prety friendly club and environment, people who try to break our fragile fluff based ecosystem get taught a hard lesson.

Xeriapt wrote:That would be ideal, its really not hard to talk to people.

I dont think Iv ever gone to play a game with someone only to be refused because I have a certain character or unit.

Yeah, it's amazing how often I read this conversation on the internet, and it very rarely mentions talking to your opponent. I mean, I know the stereotype is for us to all be basement dwelling weirdos with no social skills, but do we have to confirm it so obviously?

I've only got one regular High Elf opponent, first time he took him I lucked out and was running a list with a bunch of Hochland long rifles, and sniped him dead in my turn two, after he'd had just one magic phase. Another time I charged in with my captain on a pegasus and sorted him out, and there were another couple of games where I didn't manage to kill Teclis (once because he now protected Teclis better from lone characters charging in), and he wreaked so much havoc that I got thumped. We talked about it, and decided we weren't enjoying games where it basically came down to whether or not I could kill one special character, and he said he wasn't going to use him any more.

We talked about it, and got to a place where we both enjoy the games we play more. It shouldn't be that unusual. In fact, I believe outside of the internet it isn't unusual at all, but is in fact the norm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Trondheim wrote:No he is not, and people who struggel to beat a army that is dependant on a single SC really need to get a grip.

It's very odd how you just decided that an army with Teclis is 'dependant' on him. As if Teclis were so pricey that including him means you can't also include a whole load of elite High Elf troops. Because that's largely the problem, if you do everything you can to target Teclis and grind your way through his massive bunker unit, then you've allowed all those fancy High Elf troops to reach your lines unmolested.

Really, it isn't that hard to accept that some characters can be more powerful than they should be. Or that they change the game so that it isn't that much fun. When most people happen to think this about Teclis, and the other side spends most of their time pretending that nothing written by GW could ever be 'not fun', then odds are it's true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kenshin620 wrote:It doesnt even have to be game rules wise. There are people there that will never play against proxies (even if its good/excusable) or unpainted armies

Which, I think, is a different matter. I have no problems with proxies, in fact I quite like imaginative, cool looking proxies, but I'm not really interested in playing against half finished armies or unpainted armies. It's nothing personal, it's just that most of the fun I get from the game is seeing two cooling looking armies on the field, like an interactive diorama. If the battlefield is full of grey plastic I miss out on a lot of the fun I get from the game. But I'd never just flat out say I'm not playing against someone because their army isn't painted, I'd always talk to them, and be happy to compromise (I'm always happy to play people who are working on their army, for instance).

See, Sebster, but that's you. And you're entitled to that opinion. To me it's weird to think just cuz they are gray anyone wouldn't play them. And I think proxies are fine, as long as it's clear.

That said, I used to know some older guys who did war gaming miniatures. And they'd spend like 2 hours setting up some huge African Tobruk battle of WWII with little clouds of blackened cotton balls for smoke and such. It was pretty amazing.

1.) In 8th edition, magic is overpowered and can easily decide the whole game with one dice roll.
2.) Teclis is the most overpowered mage using this overpowered magic.
3.) If someone wants to play Teclis, just roll a dice: On 2-6 the Teclis player wins. Saves both players wasting 3 hours gaming time to wait for this one decisive dice roll..

1.) In 8th edition, magic is overpowered and can easily decide the whole game with one dice roll.

The only time it's really overpowered is if you are able to consistantly IF it over and over.

Aka, Teclis, who gains doubles and not only that, basically has not to many issues with miscasts.

Normally magic can barely decide depending on how well the winds of magic roll, it can be good, it can be bad, and it can be dispelled.

Not to mention if you want to decide the whole game, try watching a dwarven, empire, or skaven break down because all their artillery broke down due to two dice rolls.