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This is what I did to an aircraft kit with a hairdrier


Resin I am informed has a "memory" which is why it will go back into shape when heated.
Plastic doesn't.
I may be wrong but would suggest that the mixture of means that the platic resin has some properties of the two, but excessive heat causes it to behave more like styrene?

Grot 6 wrote:
They're made out of plexible plesin, what exactly would you think would happen?

Anyone who says otherwise is not even being realistic here and is engaging in wishful thinking. Thats not even in the conversation here.

Seriously? You heat something up... and it won't melt? Where does that happen again?


If you don't want to "believe" it? Hey thats fine- you can chalk that up there with the favorable pictures of Fine crap that supposedly exist as well.

I have Resin from dozens of companies made from dozens of types of plastics and resins... "sure it can melt" and "it does melt in my car" are two different things.

We all know putting minis in UNREASONABLE situations will cause them to melt. In the oven with 150 degrees +? yeah, it will melt. Exposed to boiling water? yeah, it will become FLEXIBLE but not melt. Expose to extended heat under a blowdryer or water? You can get some bending. Personally I ran mine under tap water for minutes and it didn't get spaghetti-like at all and was not flexible enough for me to model with, I had to use BOILING water... Just like other resins.

Last time I checked, my car doesn't get to 160 degrees in the sun. The claims of minis melting under REASONABLE situations like a lamp in a mini display case or heat of a car hasn't actually happened, and right now from the material *I* have doesn't appear like it will warp or melt any more or less than any other resin product I have when it comes to car/sun/bulb heat. How come no one complained about metal models chipping and breaking when expanding and contracting in freezing weather? Other materials become damaged when left in extreme tempatures too.

If it was easy and common to just leave it in your car and Gandalf goes from a majestic pose to slouching holding a wet noodle, then It seams like it would be simple to prove.

I have a Painboy with a very thin needle part on his 'urty syringe and a bosspole... I will be glad to leave him in my car all week on my dashboard of my car to see if the heat and gravity melts or warps him. Of course if it doesn't melt, people will say I am doing it wrong and am an apologist.

There is crazy hyperbole going on which is totally unsubstantiated right now which people are re-stating over and over as hard fact. If it was true, it is really easy to prove.

Hmm, I know that here in the South the interior of a car can easily reach 140+ temps.

Grot 6 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:

nkelsch wrote:[
or is just making it up and repeating it ad nasuium good enough for science?

Sigh... 36 degress here today... call it a lie, or imaginative fabrication whatever... I'm just not willing to spend stupid money on a miniature that I have to resculpt half of it and then paint it to then be constantly dodging the sun just because I don't want to potentially ruin my time and money investment... thats a hassle I don't have with any other companies.

Funny how everything is a lie... I tell you what you keep spending money on finecast and I will just wait for a revised product... lie or not I'm just not interested in burning money to check it out in the flesh, Ill leave that to you and the people who buy the stuff...

You might not, but someone else might be willing. Someone was willing to prove rounded dice roll 30% 1s (or at least make an attempt to). If Finecast really did melt easily due to casual exposure to common tempatures, then I think it would be easy to prove, and the way people on the internet love fighting and being right, it would be IMHO a good way to settle it or at least back their claim.

I am not convinced that this stuff will melt or disfigure by casually being exposed to 110 degree tempature or less, but if it did, I would actually like to know it so I would know my finecast needed to be taken out of my car the same way I don't leave electronics in my car (I work in IT and have seen lots of people leave laptops in subfreezing cars and ruin the LCD screen.)

I don't think you need to be an apologist to want to see actual evidence if this stuff melts the way people claim... I think knowing the truth would be good for all opposed to the myth of a heat boogeyman out to gobble up my Gandalf.

You can supposedly BEND them under hot water. Are you joking here? There is no mythbusters here- You heat them up, they're going to bend. You continue to expose them to heat- they will melt.

You are supposed to be able to "Fix bent weapons with running them under the HOT water, or use the hair dryer method...". (This is from GW themselves, by the way.) The next obvious thing that would happen is that you WILL melt them with exposure to heat. Finecrap is lighter then plastic. It doesn't hold the same meltpoints as plastic does- Why would anyone think that it did? where does that even come into the conversation?

They're made out of plexible plesin, what exactly would you think would happen?

Anyone who says otherwise is not even being realistic here and is engaging in wishful thinking. Thats not even in the conversation here.

Seriously? You heat something up... and it won't melt? Where does that happen again?


If you don't want to "believe" it? Hey thats fine- you can chalk that up there with the favorable pictures of Fine crap that supposedly exist as well.

Grot, I think you and me are on the same side when it comes to the "war on GW quality", and while I want to support your argument, I feel it is impossible to do so. There are pictures of "good" Finecast products out there, just do an internet search and you will see them, but what exactly will that prove? I would suggest that all it would do is give you a suggestion that there are in fact good products and bad products.......period.

Regarding the melting of Finecast......if someone else does this test, you won't believe the outcome, hell, neither would I. So the only way to do this is to purchase a figure yourself and try it out.....what have you got to lose, if it warps, simply complain and get a refund from GW, if not, then, you have a miniature you can trust......win win.

Well, I had my doubts on all of the Finecast hate until yesterday. I ordered 3 Dark Eldar Haemonculi through my FLGS. There is a knife/sword weapon thing that comes with each of them and initially they looked like they were fine. When I get them out of the package, the backside of each of the knife/sword weapon things were completely unformed. It looked like it was just a garbled mess of resin. One of them was a little salvageable. I had to use my hobby knife to try and "carve" out the sections in the weapon. It looks pretty messed up right now but it will pass. As for the other two, they are completely un-salvageable. One of them looks as if it has wood chips or something in it. I tried to take pictures of it but my iPhone doesn't really take pictures very well. I will be calling GW Monday and hoping that they send me new ones or hook me up with something. Because, these Haemonculi aren't exactly cheap and it pisses me off that the weapons on them are messed up. I suppose I will have to chop the swords off at the hand and just replace them with Wych weapons which will probably look better in the long run so they all don't look the exact same. *sigh*

FITZZ wrote: Hmm, I know that here in the South the interior of a car can easily reach 140+ temps.

If your car is getting hot enough to almost boil water and burn human flesh by sitting in the sun in your region... then maybe you need to consider not leaving your models in the car?

Most resins and plastic models will warp or melt at 140+ degrees (the temp to burn human skin) So how is that a finecast or GW problem?

Remember...

Tap Water: 120 degrees
Human skin burns: 140 degrees
Hairdryer: 150-200 degrees
Boiling water: 160 Degrees
Oven low-end: 250 degrees

Temp inside a car with the windows closed when sitting for 4+ hours on an 100 degree day: 115 degrees.

There are plenty of Dog advocacy groups who have done extensive research into this.

If it has to be 125 degrees outside for the inside of my car to reach 140+... then I am going to say on the rare occasion that you spit in the eye of god that you live in a region that it gets 125 degrees, then don't leave your crap in the car... most people who have a 100 degree day won't have any problems or a trunk full of resin puddles where their Gandalfs used to be.

Kurce wrote:Well, I had my doubts on all of the Finecast hate until yesterday. I ordered 3 Dark Eldar Haemonculi through my FLGS. There is a knife/sword weapon thing that comes with each of them and initially they looked like they were fine. When I get them out of the package, the backside of each of the knife/sword weapon things were completely unformed. It looked like it was just a garbled mess of resin. One of them was a little salvageable. I had to use my hobby knife to try and "carve" out the sections in the weapon. It looks pretty messed up right now but it will pass. As for the other two, they are completely un-salvageable. One of them looks as if it has wood chips or something in it. I tried to take pictures of it but my iPhone doesn't really take pictures very well. I will be calling GW Monday and hoping that they send me new ones or hook me up with something. Because, these Haemonculi aren't exactly cheap and it pisses me off that the weapons on them are messed up. I suppose I will have to chop the swords off at the hand and just replace them with Wych weapons which will probably look better in the long run so they all don't look the exact same. *sigh*

That's the real issue with "finecast", the fact that so many people are not getting what they paid for.
When GW trumpets a product a "Top of the line" and so many costumers keep finding unacceptable problems with their purchases, it's time Gw admit they dropped the ball.

nkelsch wrote:


Last time I checked, my car doesn't get to 160 degrees in the sun.

No but a good pediatrics website, warning of kids and locked cars, says it can get 120-140.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/05_hot_cars.htm

In addition to the risk of being abducted if they are left alone in a car, on a typical summer day, the temperature inside a car (even with the windows rolled down a little) can quickly rise above 120 to 140 degrees.

•a 6 month old 'baby died when accidentally left in hot car for 3 hrs, died when outside 90-degree temperatures rose to 130 degrees inside closed car, parents thought the other had carried the baby from the car to crib'

Automatically Appended Next Post:

carmachu wrote:

nkelsch wrote:


Last time I checked, my car doesn't get to 160 degrees in the sun.

No but a good pediatrics website, warning of kids and locked cars, says it can get 120-140.

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/05_hot_cars.htm

In addition to the risk of being abducted if they are left alone in a car, on a typical summer day, the temperature inside a car (even with the windows rolled down a little) can quickly rise above 120 to 140 degrees.

•a 6 month old 'baby died when accidentally left in hot car for 3 hrs, died when outside 90-degree temperatures rose to 130 degrees inside closed car, parents thought the other had carried the baby from the car to crib'

If it was easy and common to just leave it in your car and Gandalf goes from a majestic pose to slouching holding a wet noodle, then It seams like it would be simple to prove.

Then also try putting it in a box or storage divise with pressure and heat as well, please.

carmachu wrote:

In addition to the risk of being abducted if they are left alone in a car, on a typical summer day, the temperature inside a car (even with the windows rolled down a little) can quickly rise above 120 to 140 degrees.

•a 6 month old 'baby died when accidentally left in hot car for 3 hrs, died when outside 90-degree temperatures rose to 130 degrees inside closed car, parents thought the other had carried the baby from the car to crib'

Then also try putting it in a box or storage divise with pressure and heat as well, please.

And 140+ will make all plastics and resin flexible, not just finecast. And 140 Degrees doesn't make a puddle.

It is going to be 90 degrees this week. I will leave my painboy in the sun, in my car on a 90 degree day. The way some people speak, it should be a puddle of goo by noon due to GW's massive negligence.

If cars are getting to 140 degrees, forgeworld resin, all the 3rd party resin and GW plastic will all melt and warp under pressure at 140 degrees too.

I am not convinced Finecast has a signifigantly lower melting point than any other plastic/resin product out there.

nkelsch wrote:
Temp inside a car with the windows closed when sitting for 4+ hours on an 100 degree day: 115 degrees.

There are plenty of Dog advocacy groups who have done extensive research into this.

If it has to be 125 degrees outside for the inside of my car to reach 140+... then I am going to say on the rare occasion that you spit in the eye of god that you live in a region that it gets 125 degrees, then don't leave your crap in the car... most people who have a 100 degree day won't have any problems or a trunk full of resin puddles where their Gandalfs used to be.

Pediatrics websites disagree that it will JUST get to 115 degrees, and need to be 100 degree out to reach it. I think peds research on the issue has been a touch longer then dog advocacy groups extensive research.

nkelsch wrote:

FITZZ wrote: Hmm, I know that here in the South the interior of a car can easily reach 140+ temps.

If your car is getting hot enough to almost boil water and burn human flesh by sitting in the sun in your region... then maybe you need to consider not leaving your models in the car?

Most resins and plastic models will warp or melt at 140+ degrees (the temp to burn human skin) So how is that a finecast or GW problem?

Remember...

Tap Water: 120 degrees
Human skin burns: 140 degrees
Hairdryer: 150-200 degrees
Boiling water: 160 Degrees
Oven low-end: 250 degrees

Temp inside a car with the windows closed when sitting for 4+ hours on an 100 degree day: 115 degrees.

There are plenty of Dog advocacy groups who have done extensive research into this.

If it has to be 125 degrees outside for the inside of my car to reach 140+... then I am going to say on the rare occasion that you spit in the eye of god that you live in a region that it gets 125 degrees, then don't leave your crap in the car... most people who have a 100 degree day won't have any problems or a trunk full of resin puddles where their Gandalfs used to be.

Simply noting that in the American South, interior car temps get pretty hot, I would actually be interested to see if the temps do get high enough to cause warping, but again it's a side issue, and yes...if your in a region where car interiors are likely to cause problems then you should be extra careful with mini storage.
But again, I think the " Will Finecast burst into flame" is a side issue....the quality of what GW is putting out is the real issue.

nkelsch wrote:

And 140+ will make all plastics and resin flexible, not just finecast. And 140 Degrees doesn't make a puddle.

It is going to be 90 degrees this week. I will leave my painboy in the sun, in my car on a 90 degree day. The way some people speak, it should be a puddle of goo by noon due to GW's massive negligence.

Doesnt have to be a puddle, just melt to too flexible. Wont be a puddle, nothing has ever shown that. It will become bendy man probably, which will make it a bit hard to deal with.

What color is your car? And what state do you reside in? try also parking it in shade with heat and direct sunlight with the heat.

carmachu wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Temp inside a car with the windows closed when sitting for 4+ hours on an 100 degree day: 115 degrees.

There are plenty of Dog advocacy groups who have done extensive research into this.

If it has to be 125 degrees outside for the inside of my car to reach 140+... then I am going to say on the rare occasion that you spit in the eye of god that you live in a region that it gets 125 degrees, then don't leave your crap in the car... most people who have a 100 degree day won't have any problems or a trunk full of resin puddles where their Gandalfs used to be.

Pediatrics websites disagree that it will JUST get to 115 degrees, and need to be 100 degree out to reach it. I think peds research on the issue has been a touch longer then dog advocacy groups extensive research.

I don't believe every car in a 90 degree day is getting to 140 degrees. It doesn't mean it can't happen, but I don't think it is common either. That is crazy hyperbole and not at all scientific. Should people be aware and not leave kids in cars? sure? they shouldn't leave dogs in cars either... but It doesn't mean your gandalf is getting exposed to 140 degree temps every time you park your car in the summer.

Apparently now we have to have independent studies of car internal temps because the only one you will support is the upper range of a website that supports your hate for GW.

Seriously, let's say it was fact and all cars became hot enough to burn human skin on a 90 degree day... what modeling material will suffer no ill effects under that temp? What we are really talking about are lower temps like 110-120... Actual average car temps and tap water and direct light from a bulb. If Finecast melted under those circumstances instead of unreasonable hyperbole situations that 99% of people will never experience then there would be something to complain about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

carmachu wrote:

What color is your car? And what state do you reside in? try also parking it in shade with heat and direct sunlight with the heat.

Black, no tint, direct sunlight (where I park at work)

I also have a portable temp sensor I use for server rooms... so I will leave that in there to so I can see the temp in the car.

If it melts under 140 degrees, I am not worried. If it melts under 120 or less then I would have an issue. I would be surprised to hear my car gets hotter than 120.

carmachu wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

And 140+ will make all plastics and resin flexible, not just finecast. And 140 Degrees doesn't make a puddle.

It is going to be 90 degrees this week. I will leave my painboy in the sun, in my car on a 90 degree day. The way some people speak, it should be a puddle of goo by noon due to GW's massive negligence.

Doesnt have to be a puddle, just melt to too flexible. Wont be a puddle, nothing has ever shown that. It will become bendy man probably, which will make it a bit hard to deal with.

What color is your car? And what state do you reside in? try also parking it in shade with heat and direct sunlight with the heat.

Well, this is the thing...I work on cars for a living, and I promise you, if you open a car, particularly a darker color one, after it's sat in the sun for a few hours, the inside is like a furnace...touching any part of the interior is next to imposiable due to the heat.
So, I'd imagine it would be more than hot enough to cause some problems for resin minis left inside...though I've yet to test this theory.

GW ought to have already done the tests.
I have products that tell me what temperature limits at which to keep them
The resin should have a tolerance beyond reasonable limits, especially as they are not just being made for the British market.

No amount of excuses makes up for the fact that GW have goofed. If they cannot guarantee the product beyond a given temperature they should say so.

I think this temperature debate is a bit futile - as nkelsch has said, any temperature that affects finecast will affect any resin or plastic. So honestly if you live in an area that gets really hot, get a little car thermometer and see how hot it is. If its really getting up well past 120F then youve got 2 options. Dont leave your minis sitting in the car for hours, or....get a cooler lol.

Again, I would stress that while the temp/ warping issue is concerning, it's really a side issue.
GW pedaling miscast/sub standard kits is the main gripe here.

Fitzz, you are correct
Apologies for going OT

countchocula86 wrote:I think this temperature debate is a bit futile - as nkelsch has said, any temperature that affects finecast will affect any resin or plastic.

This is not true.

Just fill two cups with hot tapwater, put a "finecast" miniature in one, a plastic GW miniature in the other, and see which one gets soft and mushy first.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Fitzz, you are correct
Apologies for going OT

No worries Chibi.

TBD wrote:

countchocula86 wrote:I think this temperature debate is a bit futile - as nkelsch has said, any temperature that affects finecast will affect any resin or plastic.

This is not true.

Just fill two cups with hot tapwater, put a "finecast" miniature in one, a plastic GW miniature in the other, and see which one gets soft and mushy first.

If the median temprature gets that hot, I'd imagine floppy model syndrome might pale into insignificance next to 'Christ! My skin! It's bloody spontaneously blistering! Arrrgh!' Nes pas?

Double post.

I don't think it matters what precise temperature a car can get to in the summer. What matters is whether this will cause the models to warp.

This can be easily tested by making some dummy models from empty sprues to be left in the car, along with a greenhouse thermometer.

I don't have any Finecast models or I would try this myself.

Mr Mystery wrote:

TBD wrote:

countchocula86 wrote:I think this temperature debate is a bit futile - as nkelsch has said, any temperature that affects finecast will affect any resin or plastic.

This is not true.

Just fill two cups with hot tapwater, put a "finecast" miniature in one, a plastic GW miniature in the other, and see which one gets soft and mushy first.

If the median temprature gets that hot, I'd imagine floppy model syndrome might pale into insignificance next to 'Christ! My skin! It's bloody spontaneously blistering! Arrrgh!' Nes pas?

Have you never been to Southern Europe during summer time, or do you just feel like keeping up this futile denial?

When exposed to lesser temperatures (than hot tapwater), but for a longer period of time the same thing will happen and "finecast" melts sooner than plastic.

Actually yes. Got blisters on my shoulders in Cyprus, hence I know how much it hurts.

And does it actually melt? You know, in the way Wax does? Or does it just become pliable? Most resin and plastic will do that, given a high enough temprature, so I fail to see the point?

nkelsch wrote:

I don't believe every car in a 90 degree day is getting to 140 degrees. It doesn't mean it can't happen, but I don't think it is common either. That is crazy hyperbole and not at all scientific. Should people be aware and not leave kids in cars? sure? they shouldn't leave dogs in cars either... but It doesn't mean your gandalf is getting exposed to 140 degree temps every time you park your car in the summer.

Much like kids and dogs, it doesnt have to happen all the time, it only has to happen once to have an effect on your models.

Apparently now we have to have independent studies of car internal temps because the only one you will support is the upper range of a website that supports your hate for GW.

And the folks that dont want to believe like yourself want to poo poo that, and only claim its going to go up only 15 degrees, from 100 degree day to only 115.

But I didnt JUST claim the upper range. I gave a wider range.

Seriously, let's say it was fact and all cars became hot enough to burn human skin on a 90 degree day... what modeling material will suffer no ill effects under that temp? What we are really talking about are lower temps like 110-120... Actual average car temps and tap water and direct light from a bulb. If Finecast melted under those circumstances instead of unreasonable hyperbole situations that 99% of people will never experience then there would be something to complain about.

I bet you'll find that folks in TX and SW will be affected more then folks in north.

I keep boxes of models, plastic and metal in the trunk most of the time, including summer, black paint job. No problems as of yet.

You dont know if it will soften under lamps from bulbs(display cases), depending on wattage. Not really worried about meltage, but soften? I bet it can in a variety of those ways.

Black, no tint, direct sunlight (where I park at work)

I also have a portable temp sensor I use for server rooms... so I will leave that in there to so I can see the temp in the car.

If it melts under 140 degrees, I am not worried. If it melts under 120 or less then I would have an issue. I would be surprised to hear my car gets hotter than 120.

You keep saying melted, like its going to turn into a pile of goo. That wont happen. I will however, I hazard, soften, and bend over, and if in a case, might take on foam patterns.

I've heard that Finecast resin left in a car in the winter can get so cold it crystallises and shatters if dropped.

Kilkrazy wrote:I've heard that Finecast resin left in a car in the winter can get so cold it crystallises and shatters if dropped.

Take a good look at this post.....it is a historic post! This is the official beginning of the winter shattering Fincast rumour!.....now, fly my pretty, spread your wings and claim the interwebs as your home!

I heard that this one time there was a ninja shopping in a games store, and someone bought some finecast, and the ninja just flipped out and killed everybody.

Well I heard that Finecast, left at room temprature, in your figure case, in a cupboard.....goes thermonuclear