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For the people who were wondering, it's a Dave Gallagher cover. I do wonder what's happened to him of late because I used to love his work...



I would welcome the return of Necromancer led armies, but wonder how you nominate a general for the purpose of decided when the army starts to crumble. Probably the highest level wizard lord like TK. Anyway, it's good that GW are recognising the power of the old fluff. A Kemmler/Krell army would be awesome.

see thats a nice picture - its pretty sad how the covers are declining in quality given all the talent shown in other images.

maybe he was just in a rush :(

I was also kinda hoping for some Swains rules as that was fun and the recent novels feature them a lot.

Mr Morden wrote:see thats a nice picture - its pretty sad how the covers are declining in quality given all the talent shown in other images.

maybe he was just in a rush :(

I was also kinda hoping for some Swains rules as that was fun and the recent novels feature them a lot.

I just use the wight king rules to represent my swains and model appropriately. Not perfect, but it works and as fun as it was back in 6th ed, I don't ever want a return to those rules as it's just far too powerful an option. (because you just know everyone will start including a Herald of Tzeentch w/Loremaster - Life !)

What are swains? I never heard of those.

Anyway, that coven throne looks nasty!
I am sure we will be seeing a lot of armies with that
What Ld do vampires have, 9 or 10?
And it has ASF and a 4+ ward, and rerolls to hit and wound (potentially anyway)

CthuluIsSpy wrote:What are swains? I never heard of those.

One of the older VC books had Bloodline themed army lists in the back. The Lahmian list had the option for swains where you could (mis)appropriate a hero from another army book, the idea being that they were in thrall to your general. These lists were fun (the Von Carstein list could field human soldiers) but could only be used with the permission of your opponent.

I'm just waiting for the tide of 'Vampire Counts are too powerful threads,' which will no doubt crop up on Jan 15th

CthuluIsSpy wrote:What are swains? I never heard of those.

Anyway, that coven throne looks nasty!
I am sure we will be seeing a lot of armies with that
What Ld do vampires have, 9 or 10?
And it has ASF and a 4+ ward, and rerolls to hit and wound (potentially anyway)

Swains were a fun idea Basically the idea is that some Vampires often have devoted followers in love with the Vampire (Lahmian in the VC army book) and who hoped (often just drained) to be trasnformed into a Vampire themselves. In game terms you could use a Hero from another army book - I tended to use eitehr a human or a Elf hero although technically you could have Skaven etc ...

I even made up a army list along the lines of the old idea - info here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/357886.page

Will get the new book and see If it can be updated

Wonder if the new army book will reference anything of the recent novels or even the old Genevieve novels

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I'm just waiting for the tide of 'Vampire Counts are too powerful threads,' which will no doubt crop up on Jan 15th

As long as the casting values for the spells are raised, I don't care really.
And if the Coven throne is reasonably price of course.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I'm just waiting for the tide of 'Vampire Counts are too powerful threads,' which will no doubt crop up on Jan 15th

As long as the casting values for the spells are raised, I don't care really.
And if the Coven throne is reasonably price of course.

We don't have to wait, whineseer is already devolving into an argument of:
side a) "Yay! Ghouls are nerfed, stoopid spamy spell iz gone, VC's are still too roflstomp'ing mah army!!1!!!11!"
side b) "WTF GW?!1!! Ghoul are crap at 10pts, mah army is garbage VC's sucks now!111!!!!!1!11!"

For some odd reason, VC's will always be the most hated & complained about army in fantasy, even despite the new levels of filth you see from WoC/Skaven/DE's and of course, Daemons. But VC's are still 'the brokenist' somehow?!



As for the Coven Throne, apparently in the WD battle report it's 6xx or more pts with a Lord on it, so I'd say it's rather costly but it's abilities are quite tasty! Plus with a 4++ it'll be fairly resilient to the main 'gribbly killers' like the various cannons.
I don't forsee this thing screaming hellbent into entire armies and curbstomping all in it's path, but it will no doubt hurt when you combo-charge it in with any half-decent unit! (which is honestly all I've been wanting for my VC's since that complete farce of a 7th ed book! )

Also, warseer has rumored in their thread that the following banners make a return in the magic item section;
- Screaming Banner
- Banner of Blood Keep

Not bad, I couldn't care less about the dickenhof banner, and we almost certainly won't be stuck with the Black Axe of Krell and Blood Drinker has gone to Vlad... I predict we'll see the following magic items;
- Tomb Blade
- Frostblade (damnit - i hate this item!!!)
- Rod of Flaming Death (could do with some improvement because the Ruby Ring is better)
Also, fingers crossed for the likes of The Good Book, Cursed Book & a Lahmian item. I know alot of VC players though will be utterly devastated if the Barrows Banner goes.

Experiment 626 wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:I'm just waiting for the tide of 'Vampire Counts are too powerful threads,' which will no doubt crop up on Jan 15th

As long as the casting values for the spells are raised, I don't care really.
And if the Coven throne is reasonably price of course.

We don't have to wait, whineseer is already devolving into an argument of:
side a) "Yay! Ghouls are nerfed, stoopid spamy spell iz gone, VC's are still too roflstomp'ing mah army!!1!!!11!"
side b) "WTF GW?!1!! Ghoul are crap at 10pts, mah army is garbage VC's sucks now!111!!!!!1!11!"

For some odd reason, VC's will always be the most hated & complained about army in fantasy, even despite the new levels of filth you see from WoC/Skaven/DE's and of course, Daemons. But VC's are still 'the brokenist' somehow?!

I thought after 8th edition with huge nerfs to fear/terror and the magic fixings, Vamps have been good but not as scary as before?

Oh well, what warhammer update ever happens without someone claiming OP or UP?

I can see Invocation being anywhere between 5+ and 12+ to cast, if it's really D6+Caster Level. The closest analogy in the BRB is "Regrowth", which does D3+1 Wounds at 12+. The Undead will likely have to pay less casting charge than other armies since their schtick is supposed to be easily raised undead, but I can also see the price being pretty close to the BRB's.

Magic Gear is often valued at 50, 75, or 100, unless it's a Banner. As such, look at Magic Items you can see priced at that value (with 2-4 Magic Banners in addition). Assuming Bloodlines are back, there'll probably be one magic item for every Bloodline (Weapon = Lamia, Armor = Blood Dragon, Enchanted Item = Strigoi, Talisman = Von Carstein, Arcane = Necrarch?), then a magic weapon and banners for Wights? Pure speculation, mind, just what I'm predicting.

Experiment 626 wrote:

We don't have to wait, whineseer is already devolving into an argument of:
side a) "Yay! Ghouls are nerfed, stoopid spamy spell iz gone, VC's are still too roflstomp'ing mah army!!1!!!11!"
side b) "WTF GW?!1!! Ghoul are crap at 10pts, mah army is garbage VC's sucks now!111!!!!!1!11!"

For some odd reason, VC's will always be the most hated & complained about army in fantasy, even despite the new levels of filth you see from WoC/Skaven/DE's and of course, Daemons. But VC's are still 'the brokenist' somehow?!

As for the Coven Throne, apparently in the WD battle report it's 6xx or more pts with a Lord on it, so I'd say it's rather costly but it's abilities are quite tasty! Plus with a 4++ it'll be fairly resilient to the main 'gribbly killers' like the various cannons.
I don't forsee this thing screaming hellbent into entire armies and curbstomping all in it's path, but it will no doubt hurt when you combo-charge it in with any half-decent unit! (which is honestly all I've been wanting for my VC's since that complete farce of a 7th ed book! )

Yeah, there was the same reaction with the necron release. Nobody liked that they changed living metal, and screamed nerf. They overlooked that everything is so much cheaper now

I think the reason why VC are so hated is because they can keep summoning skeletons with no limit, and that they can spam spells that have really low casting values, thanks to the "forbidden lore rule"

Anyway, Coven throne is 6xx pts or so with lord, I'm happy. That seems to be reasonable for the number of special rules and resilience it has.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Minsc wrote:I can see Invocation being anywhere between 5+ and 12+ to cast, if it's really D6+Caster Level. The closest analogy in the BRB is "Regrowth", which does D3+1 Wounds at 12+. The Undead will likely have to pay less casting charge than other armies since their schtick is supposed to be easily raised undead, but I can also see the price being pretty close to the BRB's.

Magic Gear is often valued at 50, 75, or 100, unless it's a Banner. As such, look at Magic Items you can see priced at that value (with 2-4 Magic Banners in addition). Assuming Bloodlines are back, there'll probably be one magic item for every Bloodline (Weapon = Lamia, Armor = Blood Dragon, Enchanted Item = Strigoi, Talisman = Von Carstein, Arcane = Necrarch?), then a magic weapon and banners for Wights? Pure speculation, mind, just what I'm predicting.

What does the ressurrection spell do now? D6 skellies on a 3+? Or was it 4+? I forget...

According to the rumors, it's D6+Wizard Level. Or for a Level 1 Vampire it's upgrading a D3 to a D6, and for every additional level you add +1 to the amount. Hence why I said I could see anywhere between 5+ and 12+. I mean, it might be higher, but I doubt they'll make a signature spell that the average Level 4 Wizard needs to throw 3 dice at to have better odds at success than failure (since you'd only be able to cast it once or twice a phase, at the cost of several other 12+ value spells).

Minsc wrote:According to the rumors, it's D6+Wizard Level. Or for a Level 1 Vampire it's upgrading a D3 to a D6, and for every additional level you add +1 to the amount. Hence why I said I could see anywhere between 5+ and 12+. I mean, it might be higher, but I doubt they'll make a signature spell that the average Level 4 Wizard needs to throw 3 dice at to have better odds at success than failure (since you'd only be able to cast it once or twice a phase, at the cost of several other 12+ value spells).

I thought the D6 + level was to determine the number of raised.

ZAlpha wrote:Lore of the Vampires

Signature Spell is definitely Invocation of Nehek - on the most fundamental level it can restore "D6 + caster's Wizard level" of Wounds to friendly Undead unit within 6". Boosted version has 12" range, as well as 18" ones.

Everything I'm seeing just makes me more anxious. I hope that it is true about the 5 pt skelies.

This.

So... no more ethereal Great Fire Dragons?

4oursword wrote:This.

So... no more ethereal Great Fire Dragons?

Wait, what?

I do hope the VC magic is decent, the magic phase is my favourite phase in fantasy and Iv always loved doing magic heavy VC armies.

I think out of all the models the mini-varghulfs/giant ghouls are something I'll give a miss, they're just a little too meh.

Pretty sure it will be decent. I mean, having a vortex that causes D6 S3 hits per rank?

Especially in a metagame where people run 5 wide, 10 deep schoolbuses to make the most of steadfast. That spell alone will melt off ranks like nothing else.

Correction replenishes the numbers of EVERY friendly unit within 6 by d6 plus casters lvl

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

4oursword wrote:This.

So... no more ethereal Great Fire Dragons?

Wait, what?

Ummm.... I didn't think you kept your vampire powers if you turn your self into a dragon with the lore of the beast.
O____o

If you did then that's pretty funny in all honesty, and cool for catching that. I'm going to have to show that to a friend who was all smug about their being no rules arguments in fantasy.
=P

Over9000 wrote:Correction replenishes the numbers of EVERY friendly unit within 6 by d6 plus casters lvl

Really? That seems quite powerful, especially since you can boost it up to 18". Since it's the signature spell, it can be cause by any of your casters with that lore, it might get very hard to keep VC's down.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

4oursword wrote:This.

So... no more ethereal Great Fire Dragons?

Wait, what?

In the current pile of stinky poop we have, you can take a Vampire Lord with both the Forbidden Lore power togain access to all the spells from any lore (except Life!) and then combo it with the Spectral Form power that makes your vampire ethereal. (however, the drawback being you may not take any magic items or be mounted)
Thus, it's currently possilbe for VC's to have silliness such as ethereal mountain chimeras or great fire dragons.

It's still a stupid tactic if you're only running 1 Lord however... Seriously, let the guy cast his 'uber spell, slam his General into a unit and end up all by his little lonesome. Your turn, charge the lord, throw 6 dice to dispel his monstrous form, watch him crumble to static combat res!
Even if you're running a pair of Lords, I'd still never throw a 290-340pts model away like that. Hell, for those pts I can make him usefull beyond one dumb gimmick and have him (*shock-gasp*) support an entire unit!

And this is why I hate the current VC magic. So full of cheesy gimmicky crap

That makes scarab farm looks like a legitimate strategy in comparison!

-Loki- wrote:

Over9000 wrote:Correction replenishes the numbers of EVERY friendly unit within 6 by d6 plus casters lvl

Really? That seems quite powerful, especially since you can boost it up to 18". Since it's the signature spell, it can be cause by any of your casters with that lore, it might get very hard to keep VC's down.

100%

Over9000 wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Over9000 wrote:Correction replenishes the numbers of EVERY friendly unit within 6 by d6 plus casters lvl

Really? That seems quite powerful, especially since you can boost it up to 18". Since it's the signature spell, it can be cause by any of your casters with that lore, it might get very hard to keep VC's down.

100%

Yeah, that sounds about right.
However, by the looks of it it seems that most of the basic units will be pretty weak anyway.

Newsagent near my work had the new white dwarf on shelves. IoN working on all units is mentioned.

Also raise dead lets you create a new unit of zombies or skeletons now.

Hooray for being able to create a unit other than zombies.

If it's all units within a certain range... Daaaamn.

The guys I play against (one in particular) are gonna be complaining about that!

-Loki- wrote:Newsagent near my work had the new white dwarf on shelves. IoN working on all units is mentioned.

Also raise dead lets you create a new unit of zombies or skeletons now.

Am I missing something? Why would you ever Raise S2 T2 I1 naked zombies, as opposed to S3 T3 I2 light armour skeletons?

O____o

Have they buffed zombies or something in the new book? Because in all honesty if they were now T4 or something now, that would be awesome.... (Yah need to aim for the heads boys!) Whould go a long way to making them effective tarpits agien...