Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You might raise more Zombies than you do Skeletons - if I'm remembering the 4th/5th ed versions of that spell, I think you got an extra die if you raised zombies.

A few other tidbits from reading on the train on the way home.

Necromancers can take an upgrade called Master of the Dead. The only way to add models to a Skeleton unit raised with Raise Dead is with a Necromancer with Master of the Dead. This seems to be the benefit of zombies - if you raise skeletons, you need a Master of the Dead Necromancer to keep adding to the unit.

Ghouls are 10 points. A unit of 40 with a Ghast in one of the sample lists was 410 points.

Banner of the Blood Keep is one of the returning banners, and grants a 4+ ward save to shooting attacks.

There appear to be 3 different vampire types. Vampire lord, Vampire, Strigoi Ghoul King. This is mentioned in the new rules for Vampire Counts pacts for Storm of magic, they specifically name the lord choices you can take, and it is those 3 and Master Necromancer. They don't mention at all what makes a Strigoi Ghoul King different, though it might have something to do with Hatred and Poison, as Phil Kelly pointed out in the GW website Terrorgeist designers notes.

I also may be reading too much into it, but there's some hints towards Ghouls not being able to be reinforced through Invocation of Nehek. Don't quote me on this, it's not outright stated, just whenever they talk about raising models, Ghouls are the only unit not mentioned, as well as in the Lahmian sample list they say 'with 40 models, it ensures there will be enough left when they reach the enemy' or sometihng to that effect.

A Vampire Lord with death knight is WS 9. Looks like Vampire Lords are getting ridiculous stats again.

Master Necromancers can be the general. They specifically state this. It's possible to make an army completely lacking vampires.

They make a subtle mention about 'when the general dies, the army starts to crumble until another powerful character can regain control.' Seems like you can replace the general with a powerful Necromancer or other Vampire caster somehow if the general dies.

-Loki- wrote:I also may be reading too much into it, but there's some hints towards Ghouls not being able to be reinforced through Invocation of Nehek. Don't quote me on this, it's not outright stated, just whenever they talk about raising models, Ghouls are the only unit not mentioned, as well as in the Lahmian sample list they say 'with 40 models, it ensures there will be enough left when they reach the enemy' or sometihng to that effect.

Intriguing, ideally I'd like to see a return to Ghouls and Necromancers being alive (and therefore subject to psycology), but this is probably hoping too much

-Loki- wrote:A Vampire Lord with death knight is WS 9. Looks like Vampire Lords are getting ridiculous stats again.

Meh, a high weapon skill is overrated

-Loki- wrote:Master Necromancers can be the general. They specifically state this. It's possible to make an army completely lacking vampires.

Woo hoo!

Something else - units can only march if they are within 12" of the general, not just any vampire. They make multiple mentions of it, and talk about the importance of your generals position in the battle line.

I guess this is a way of getting around armies without vampires never being able to march, but it does hurt, especially for flanking units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the other returning banner is the Banner of the Barrows, not the Drakenhof banner, though no mention of its effect.

Some more rumours:

Avian wrote:The +2 to cast bonus only works for the Lore of Vampires, not any other Lore. The miscasting affects users of all Lores. In either case, it affects friends or foes within 12" of one or more Engines with the Tomes upgrade.

Over9000 wrote:Oh and direwolves count towards 25% core now
(...)
Seems to be, looking at white dwarf: They have some sample armies which dont add upto 25% unless counting wolves.
(...)
Btw the raise dead spell is now zombies/skels

Do we have any confirmations to point cost of Hexwraiths, or their stats?

30 pts s5 magic flaming
Blood knights are either 50 or 51 pts now
3 vargheists champ upgrade 148
horrors 38
knights 26 full kit

And spectral host? At last are core? How it much?

45pts ^.^ still special tho

Kyte wrote:So far I gather from various international, German and Danish forums that:

Bloodlines won't be back, but similar abilities as 6th ed bloodlines will be available through the new vampyric powers. Different powers will unlock different equipment and mount options.

New wraith cavalry will cause the same inter-forum whine as Ogre Mournfangs did, being essentially mounted one wound wraiths, easily the new power-gamer's unit of choice.

Skeletons will be the same price as the TK variety and have the same options at the same cost, except access to magic banner (varying statements on whether only one unit will be allowed magic banner or not)

Giant ghouls have T5. Otherwise same stats as a Rat Ogre.

One of the spirit-borne-thrones/engines/things gives 2+ to cast to ALL wizards within a range of (varying statements), not just your own wizards (commentary: will probably be a really fun model to both play and play against, as it offers whole new tactical aspects for both players to the game... Going to be a true hit among casual gamers like the Thundertusk, I gather).

Wraith and Banshee move to Hero Choices only.

Ixquic wrote:The Mortis Engine gives +2 to cast from the Lore of Vampires to all casters within 12" so you only have to worry about that working against you when you are playing against another Vampire. The problem is that same upgrade also causes you to roll twice on the miscast chart and your opponent picks the one that you take. It seems to me that will end up screwing you more than helping unless there's a way to single dice cast reliably in the new book.

There appear to be 3 different vampire types. Vampire lord, Vampire, Strigoi Ghoul King. This is mentioned in the new rules for Vampire Counts pacts for Storm of magic, they specifically name the lord choices you can take, and it is those 3 and Master Necromancer. They don't mention at all what makes a Strigoi Ghoul King different, though it might have something to do with Hatred and Poison, as Phil Kelly pointed out in the GW website Terrorgeist designers notes.

Does this mean that "Vampire" is no longer a Hero choice?

I get the feeling that's a typo and regular Vampires are still heroes but it would be awesome if they brought back the two Vampire Lord types from 6th edition.

Really?

Still waiting for a new Bretonnia book, much less a new Wood Elf book...

Regardless, I suppose I can dig it. VC got hit HARD in 8th, totally a major shift from their reign in 7th.

It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.

Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.

6+.

Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.

6+.

Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.

If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distribute D6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.

Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.

*looks at his Wight King Banner Bearer*

Those gits removed the Drakenhof Banner? But...my model has the freaking banner on him!

I can't say I'm surprised they added the Ghoul King. It's been a hell of a popular model.

Minsc wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.

6+.

Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.

If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distribute D6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.

Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.

Can Tomb Kings recast their raise dead spell? I think that we might be trading that ability for the bubble.

Ixquic wrote:

Minsc wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.

6+.

Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.

If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distribute D6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.

Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.

Can Tomb Kings recast their raise dead spell? I think that we might be trading that ability for the bubble.

Isn't the TK raise dead ability an attribute and not a spell?
I thought if they cast a buff on a friendly TK unit, they get back D6 wounds or something.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ixquic wrote:

Minsc wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Minsc wrote:It might be a return of Vamp-Lord Vamp-Count and Vamp-Thrall, and the new Invokation... why do I feel it's going to be at least 10+ to cast for the basic version? People are talking about the power in adding undead to every unit within 6", but I can't imagine GW giving such a spell (especially in comparison with the TK's raising ability) unless it involves a notable casting value.

6+.

Casting values are on the first page. Look for the cards.

If the last one is for the Signature Spell, that's terrifying. A level 2 has a 50% chance - pre-Gifts or Magic Items - of raising D6+2 to every unit within 6". If it means you can distribute D6+WL between units within 6", that's much less terrifying, but in this case you could potentially see four units buffed with a single wizard with a single die.

Only real advantage is that, if like Tomb Kings, taking Invocation means a Level 2's already used up half their spell choices.

Can Tomb Kings recast their raise dead spell? I think that we might be trading that ability for the bubble.

Isn't the TK raise dead ability an attribute and not a spell?
I thought if they cast a buff on a friendly TK unit, they get back D6 wounds or something.

They do.

I find that a large number of non-VC players have always bitched about our ability to raise small mountains of the game's worst troops though. The VC 'thing' isn't just that we're undead, it's that we're the super propagating undead! TK's only raise their buried army, we go about raising the population of the Old World from circa 1300 or so on the Imperial Calander! (1100 and earlier requires too much effort apparently!)

The point of Skeletons & zombies isn't to actually kill stuff, it's to pin your biggest threats in place while our own heavy hitters dismantle the rest of your army. Right now those units can't do that however because we can't raise them fast enough to counter the obscene amounts of combat res that they bleed.
Now it looks like it'll be possible for a Necromancer or Thrall to hide out nearby a pair of skellies/endless moaners and keep them going for 3-4 combat phases, which is great! Gives us a reason not to automatically go GGGhouls anymore!

I wonder how they are going to Do Crumble in the new VC book. Crumble is probably the worst part about TK.

I personally don't think the Bubble spell is going to be that bad, if you can only raise Zombies and Skeletons with it. They may have have some rule smiler to the TK constructs on their bigger beasties, which can only recover a single wound each per magic phase.

If it's true that Ghouls can't recover wounds, but you gain the ability to bring back a lot more Skellies and Zombies, I think it'll work out well.

I don't see why the crumble rule would be any different than it has always been.

Sasori wrote:I personally don't think the Bubble spell is going to be that bad, if you can only raise Zombies and Skeletons with it. They may have have some rule smiler to the TK constructs on their bigger beasties, which can only recover a single wound each per magic phase.

If it's true that Ghouls can't recover wounds, but you gain the ability to bring back a lot more Skellies and Zombies, I think it'll work out well.

'The bubble spell' is Invocation of Nehek. It works on any friendly Undead unit - the specify friendly Undead, which is another reason I think Ghouls might now not be affected, they might not be Undead anymore. But any other Undead unit in its AoE will recover D6 + caster level of wounds. And don't forget the lore attribute, giving the caster or any other model within 12" a recovered wound for every successful cast.

Raise Dead is the one that can only raise Zombies and Skeletons, but it creates an entirely new unit rather than reinforcing all within range. If you raise Zombies, because of their Freshly Dead rule, you can increase the unit beyond its starting size. If you raise Skeletons, you need a Necromancer with Master of the Dead to increase its unit size.

Holy crap those models are gorgeous. GW really out did itself this time. Those engines are ridiculous!

Mewiththeface wrote:Those engines are ridiculous!

That was my view, but given your preceding words, I think we have a slightly different connotation

Lockark wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

4oursword wrote:This.

So... no more ethereal Great Fire Dragons?

Wait, what?

Ummm.... I didn't think you kept your vampire powers if you turn your self into a dragon with the lore of the beast.
O____o

If you did then that's pretty funny in all honesty, and cool for catching that. I'm going to have to show that to a friend who was all smug about their being no rules arguments in fantasy.
=P

I think they FAQ'd that it's true.
I'll check.

-Loki- wrote:...the specify friendly Undead, which is another reason I think Ghouls might now not be affected, they might not be Undead anymore...

Well, if they didn't specify it, you'd get boosts to Pacts, Bound Monsters, Trusted Allies...

Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.

I really hope they do more. The only thing stopping me ordering the Lahmian vampires is the fact that they're metal.

4oursword wrote:

Lockark wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

4oursword wrote:This.

So... no more ethereal Great Fire Dragons?

Wait, what?

Ummm.... I didn't think you kept your vampire powers if you turn your self into a dragon with the lore of the beast.
O____o

If you did then that's pretty funny in all honesty, and cool for catching that. I'm going to have to show that to a friend who was all smug about their being no rules arguments in fantasy.
=P

I think they FAQ'd that it's true.
I'll check.

You lose all magic items & equipment. Powers are not magic items or equipment, thus you keep those bonuses...



As for unstable changing? Well, let's just say the Maple Leafs have a better shot at winning the Cup than we get any possilbe changes to unstable!
For now, we're stuck with it and we'll have to try and find some way to mitigate it as best we can.

I don't blame Cruddance or Kelly in any way our crappy core situation as cheaper skellies is litterly the only thing they can do because the army books won't fiddle with core rules. We all know who wrote the main rules, and that 8th edition was ment to fix one of GW's biggest ever blunders.
Of corse, undead have come off far worse simply because we just happen to share those same mechanics with the army that broke 7th edition!

Experiment 626 wrote:
I don't blame Cruddance or Kelly in any way our crappy core situation as cheaper skellies is litterly the only thing they can do because the army books won't fiddle with core rules. We all know who wrote the main rules, and that 8th edition was ment to fix one of GW's biggest ever blunders.
Of corse, undead have come off far worse simply because we just happen to share those same mechanics with the army that broke 7th edition!

At the local gameing store thier is a saying.

"Vampire counts started building the coffin for 7th ed. But it was demons that put the nails in it."

-Loki- wrote:Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.

...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
The only reason that I've already got the Sartosan Vampire is that I assumed it wouldn't be finecasted! BLARGH

Nice to see more Lahmian vamps, and I can see me getting a Isabella for my Mordheim gang.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.

...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
The only reason that I've already got the Sartosan Vampire is that I assumed it wouldn't be finecasted! BLARGH

I know the feeling.

Personally, I'm trying very, very hard to not buy the old Lahmians because I really want them in finecast. I know when I do, the next month they'll get the finecast treatment which will make my conversion idea so much easier. But if I don't, they won't get done in finecast and I'll never buy them.

Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:

-Loki- wrote:Something else of note - Heinrich Kemmler isn't the only classic model to go Finecast for this release. They are releasing the Sartosan vampire in Finecast as well.

...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
The only reason that I've already got the Sartosan Vampire is that I assumed it wouldn't be finecasted! BLARGH

In all honesty I'm torn at that news. I would love to get the sartosan models in finecast, but not sure if I want the finecast prices.
=/

Edit: Made me just start woundering. I wounder if thier is any new fluff mentioning the Sartosan vampires/pirate vampires in the new book?

They might just be finecasting the sartosan to give some more variety in the vampire models available.