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As far as the Orks...

You think it's a coincidence that Nob Bikers and Mega-Nobs have improved...

But are also insanely expensive cash-wise?

Lysenis wrote:Think about this then, why does the BRB actually show different weapon profiles for different missile launchers? Eldar ML are different then normal ML so adding 2+2 and we get that the words optional upgrade are the fluff portion of that rule while everything after that and the appendix in the back of the book is correct.

So all bolters can use Hellfire?

Or just those bolters that have the option?

imweasel wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

imweasel wrote:Except for the very next line in that very same description AND the weapon profile entry in the back of the book.

Eh? Are you saying all Missile Launchers have a Flakk mode built-in? Or only some? How do you tell? Why does the text stay the Flakk option is an upgrade?

Are you saying the weapon profiles are wrong. As far as I can tell, there is only one shooting weapon that can buy a 'different' shell and thats a medusa. Notice whats missing from its profile that you have to pay for to get? The breech shell.

That very line could be refering to every other weapon in the game thats a specific type of ml.

I am sure its for future reference. It doens't seem to do anything as of yet. At least that is my thinking on the matter.

insaniak wrote:

Lysenis wrote:Think about this then, why does the BRB actually show different weapon profiles for different missile launchers? Eldar ML are different then normal ML so adding 2+2 and we get that the words optional upgrade are the fluff portion of that rule while everything after that and the appendix in the back of the book is correct.

So all bolters can use Hellfire?

Or just those bolters that have the option?

I understand that point of view.

Therion wrote:I was merely replying to your inane statement that I deserve to lose because I play my army like it's designed (and written in the background) to be played.

According to fluff, a single Space Marine can take down a hundred men.

Good luck with your fluff-based demands.

insaniak wrote:

Lysenis wrote:Think about this then, why does the BRB actually show different weapon profiles for different missile launchers? Eldar ML are different then normal ML so adding 2+2 and we get that the words optional upgrade are the fluff portion of that rule while everything after that and the appendix in the back of the book is correct.

So all bolters can use Hellfire?

Or just those bolters that have the option?

The profile for Heavy Bolter in the the back of the BRB doesn't list Hellfire shells. The profile for ML does list Flakk missiles.

edit: Sorry, you said bolters, but Hellfire aren't listed in the boltgun profile either.

A question on failing combat and falling back. The new book (as far as i can read) says nothing about staying broken if a unit is within 6". It says you fall back 2d6, then on your next turn you reroll Ld (snakeyes if your below 25%...unless an IC is attached), normal Ld if above 25%.
If that is the case it makes Gazzy a real player again. No more shooting him up, hitting him with an IG-PBS, then escorting him and the Nobs off the board when he fails his Ld2 roll.

imweasel wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

imweasel wrote:Except for the very next line in that very same description AND the weapon profile entry in the back of the book.

Eh? Are you saying all Missile Launchers have a Flakk mode built-in? Or only some? How do you tell? Why does the text stay the Flakk option is an upgrade?

Are you saying the weapon profiles are wrong. As far as I can tell, there is only one shooting weapon that can buy a 'different' shell and thats a medusa. Notice whats missing from its profile that you have to pay for to get? The breech shell.

That very line could be refering to every other weapon in the game thats a specific type of ml.

I'm saying if the text says "optional upgrade" or whatever the exact wording is, it is silly if the idea is the Flakk firing mode is 'Standard' according to the weapon profile. 'Optional' and 'Standard' are two different words with opposing meanings.

Archonate wrote:Over the years SMs are being stripped of all weaknesses and disadvantages.
They've been getting more and better tanks, greater access to speed, ATSKNF, Less vulnerability to xeno strengths, better stealth, better SCs, and now better armor...

Have they lost anything? I'm no SM player so I honestly don't know...

Tarantulas, Rapiers, the ability to carry Dreadnoughts and Terminators in rhinos, frag launchers on rhinos, salvo-firing missile launchers for dreadnoughts, 8" radius blasts for Cyclone missile launchers, Hellfire shells on all heavy bolters, Minefield-seeding whirlwinds, the ability to take power weapons on entire assault squads, the ability to take Apothecaries in every squad, the ability to double up on Assault Squads or Devastator squads, the ability to take Furious Charge on all Tactical and Assault squads, the ability to extend the game by an extra turn, the ability to take BP/CCWs on tactical squads, the ability to infiltrate Devastator and Tactical squads or give them Tank Hunters, Counter Attack or True Grit, and the ability to give Command and Veteran squads invulnerable saves... just off the top of my head.

insaniak wrote:

Archonate wrote:Over the years SMs are being stripped of all weaknesses and disadvantages.
They've been getting more and better tanks, greater access to speed, ATSKNF, Less vulnerability to xeno strengths, better stealth, better SCs, and now better armor...

Have they lost anything? I'm no SM player so I honestly don't know...

Tarantulas, Rapiers, the ability to carry Dreadnoughts and Terminators in rhinos, frag launchers on rhinos, salvo-firing missile launchers for dreadnoughts, 8" radius blasts for Cyclone missile launchers, Hellfire shells on all heavy bolters, Minefield-seeding whirlwinds, the ability to take power weapons on entire assault squads, the ability to take Apothecaries in every squad, the ability to double up on Assault Squads or Devastator squads, the ability to take Furious Charge on all Tactical and Assault squads, the ability to extend the game by an extra turn, the ability to take BP/CCWs on tactical squads, the ability to infiltrate Devastator and Tactical squads or give them Tank Hunters, Counter Attack or True Grit, and the ability to give Command and Veteran squads invulnerable saves... just off the top of my head.

This makes me smile. The 4th ed dex for Marines was the best. It helped make some many different chapters it was insane.

Verd_Warr wrote:

insaniak wrote:

Lysenis wrote:Think about this then, why does the BRB actually show different weapon profiles for different missile launchers? Eldar ML are different then normal ML so adding 2+2 and we get that the words optional upgrade are the fluff portion of that rule while everything after that and the appendix in the back of the book is correct.

So all bolters can use Hellfire?

Or just those bolters that have the option?

The profile for Heavy Bolter in the the back of the BRB doesn't list Hellfire shells. The profile for ML does list Flakk missiles.

edit: Sorry, you said bolters, but Hellfire aren't listed in the boltgun profile either.

Since I have been only able to use a friends rule book this statement reinforces my statement.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:So what does that make the Stave? Is it ap3 or ap4? The stat for stave is ap4, as the regular stave in GK dex doesn't have ap value. It says the unusual force weapons are ap3.

The Nemesis Force Stave? The unusual force weapon with a special rule (nemesis)? Looks like AP3 to me. Nothing in the warding stave rules states an AP value. And the only exception to get out of that category, to get out of AP3, is if the weapon entry states otherwise - like the hammer.

As already piinted out...the Chart on Pg60 has a line entry for "STAVES".
S+2, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Force.

dkellyj wrote:As already piinted out...the Chart on Pg60 has a line entry for "STAVES".
S+2, AP4, Melee, Concussive, Force.

But we were talking about the Nemesis Warding Stave, which is an unusual weapon

xxvaderxx wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:
The really bizarre thing is they removed Target Locks from the infantry armoury, but didn't remove them from the vehicle armoury or Commander Shadowsun.

Not really it is actually expected, remember this edition vehicles are papper thin, if they allowed to split fire 3 crisis suits would anihilate your oponents meq.

The problem with this theory is that the Space Wolves FAQ doesn't say "Long Fangs - Delete the entry for Fire Control". Tau splitting fire is not nearly as nasty as Long Fangs splitting, and there is nothing in the new rulebook that makes the Target Lock redundant.

It's a straight nerf because the idiot they put in charge of the Tau FAQ didn't really care to read the rules.

Also note that the Tau FAQ is missing the million dollar question "Do Seeker Missiles fired at Fliers hit at BS1 or BS5?"

RogueRegault wrote:
Also note that the Tau FAQ is missing the million dollar question "Do Seeker Missiles fired at Fliers hit at BS1 or BS5?"

Now this is just a bit of common sence. But to fire the missile you need to hit with the Marker light. So I would say markeright has to hit at BS1, if that hits then the missle would hit on BS5. You can't fire the seeker without the Marker.

Nothing on how 'Nids can benefit from Allied detachment. Too bad they could certainly use that extra Elite slot for sure.

Also the change for 'Nids and spore mine cluster nerfs Spore mines even more than their 10 point cost and non-vehicular damage does, instead of losing one model with scatter you lose the whole brood, ergh.

Quick question...

Can I build a 30" ruin and have my Ethereal 'leap down' from the top to kill himself? Is that legal?

Skyfire is totally not fluffly at all its just merely balacning, real life example the German 8,8 anti-air gun was leg- wait for it-dairy for its ability to open up a Russian T34 tank with ease, being extremely accurate. If anything AA guns should have had the ability to hit ground troops with the accuracy.

Just to clarify, under the missile launcher entry in the new rule book, it clearly states that some units have the option to purchase Flakk missiles in their Codex i.e. Flakk missiles do not automatically come with missile launchers. You have to buy them as an upgrade and need the option to do so. This option will no doubt start in appearing in future Codexes, but doesn't exist at present.

warboss wrote:Hrmm... Logan Grimnar seems to have lost any utility with his special axe that allows him to choose between two profiles. Both a frost axe and powerfist (the two he can choose from IIRC) are unwieldy.

I don't have my book with me at the moment... the grey knight halberd acts as a special force weapon... how does that interact with AP and initiative as a force halberd/axe with the rulebook and special GK halberd rules?

He can use it as a Frost Blade meaning AP-3 str+1 or a Power Fist, making him still actually quite viable if not evenmore powerfull because of the protection he receives from 2+ save,
On the down side he can't kill shooting termies without probaly dieing in return, so stay away from PF and equivalents enmasse and he will rock most peoples socks.

Question on the weapons appendix in the back..

Does that appendix completely replace all special rules and text for a given weapon, or do other unique items stick around but the USR's change.

I can't find anything that denies Eldar str9 vs vehicles. I see the Armour Piecing or whatever.

Also, the singing spear seems to not have the 2+ to wound or the extra armour pen.

In the grim darkness of the far future, only Space Marines are allowed to split fire.

Because apparently they weren't good enough.

Especially with the old codex amendment, which mentions that all the weapons are functionally the same even if written out longhand.

Flashman wrote:Just to clarify, under the missile launcher entry in the new rule book, it clearly states that some units have the option to purchase Flakk missiles in their Codex i.e. Flakk missiles do not automatically come with missile launchers. You have to buy them as an upgrade and need the option to do so. This option will no doubt start in appearing in future Codexes, but doesn't exist at present.

I must have missed that part where it said in their codex.

Once again, right after the option to upgrade, it states you chhose what missile to fire and gives the profile you can choose from. The only other weapon I can think of that you can upgrade is the medusa. That upgrade is missing from its profile from the weapons profile in the rule book. The flakk missile isn't. I would say you get to use the flakk missile until it's faq'ed otherwise.

Sidstyler wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future, only Space Marines are allowed to split fire.

Because apparently they weren't good enough.

Say what now? What is this witch craft, where dies it say they can do that?

SW Longfangs can.

It's in their dex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeffDred wrote:As far as the Orks...

You think it's a coincidence that Nob Bikers and Mega-Nobs have improved...

But are also insanely expensive cash-wise?

I'm glad i'll finally have a reason to use my 30 Meganobz outside of insanely fluff-build lists..

I'll be using Ghaz as a regular Megaboss though..

I'll definitely be trying out some biker armies with the new rules too...

balsak_da_mighty wrote:unweildy is Int 1


you only get extra attack with power fist if equip with another "specialist weapon"

So, taking a Power Axe is asking for S5/6, ap2 and the regular extra Attack? While the Power Fist will give you S6/8, ap2 and no extra attack from pistol? Booth at Ini 1?

I think Power Axes are my new prefered weapons...

Can someone please summarize the new close combat weapons profile? (Or leak them anyway)

Ascalam wrote:SW Longfangs can.

It's in their dex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeffDred wrote:As far as the Orks...

You think it's a coincidence that Nob Bikers and Mega-Nobs have improved...

But are also insanely expensive cash-wise?

I'm glad i'll finally have a reason to use my 30 Meganobz outside of insanely fluff-build lists..

I'll be using Ghaz as a regular Megaboss though..

I'll definitely be trying out some biker armies with the new rules too...

Oh well I knew about Long Fangs I thought he meant other marines finally got the rule.

Secondly my friend plays Orks so what is the big improvement on Meganobz thats the 2+ save guys that roll for difficult terrain/slow and pourpouseful right? what is so good about them now?

All I can say is, thank Feth for October, those FAQ have made Chaos pretty crap.