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 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like they've been talking about a campaign that they're getting set to launch at the end of this month(July 27th) that takes place in a specific system and has a narrative of Death Guard and Chaos Marines assaulting an area where two factions(Grey Knights and Ultramarines) were known to be holed up.

Yeah it's kind of a dumb decision.

 Melissia wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like they've been talking about a campaign that they're getting set to launch at the end of this month(July 27th) that takes place in a specific system and has a narrative of Death Guard and Chaos Marines assaulting an area where two factions(Grey Knights and Ultramarines) were known to be holed up.

Yeah it's kind of a dumb decision.

Alright? why? Space Marines are the most popular best selling army, YOU might not like them, but those are the facts, putting out something for them at the dawn of a enw edition is proably a good thing, it excites the most people (partiuclarly as these are gonna be avaliable for specialty chapters too) and will.. possiably spark an arms race with the other armies once they get new toys. the attention to Chaos is exactly what they need to do. given they're supposed to be such a prominant threat. but people aren't feeling it (For me, Tyranids have been feeling like a bigger threat then Chaos until recently)

a big IoM vs Chaos Campaign isn't a dumb idea.

Now, do I think they should do other campaigns that aren't Marine centric in the future? absolutely! Hell I'd LOOOVE to see sisters finally get an update and us have a campaign where the sisters of battle lead a crusade against Orks or something.

I don't play Orks or sisters, but I'd love to see it.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like they've been talking about a campaign that they're getting set to launch at the end of this month(July 27th) that takes place in a specific system and has a narrative of Death Guard and Chaos Marines assaulting an area where two factions(Grey Knights and Ultramarines) were known to be holed up.

Yeah it's kind of a dumb decision.

Alright? why?

Because Games Workshop has ultimate and absolute control over their lore. They don't NEED to limit the battles in their upcoming campaigns to ONLY marines vs marines. They CHOSE to. So everyone else gets left out. Again.

This isn't Imperium of Man vs Chaos. This is Space Marines vs Space Marines.

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like they've been talking about a campaign that they're getting set to launch at the end of this month(July 27th) that takes place in a specific system and has a narrative of Death Guard and Chaos Marines assaulting an area where two factions(Grey Knights and Ultramarines) were known to be holed up.

Yeah it's kind of a dumb decision.

Alright? why?

Because Games Workshop has ultimate and absolute control over their lore. They don't NEED to limit the battles in their upcoming campaigns to ONLY marines vs marines. They CHOSE to. So everyone else gets left out. Again.

This isn't Imperium of Man vs Chaos. This is Space Marines vs Space Marines.

Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

let's not turn this thread into a debate and draw attention to the mods ...

... the wait for DG can't be more excruciating

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

I know you weren't blaming your local store, my point is this campaign is open to anyone. so no one's being "left out"


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 aracersss wrote:
let's not turn this thread into a debate and draw attention to the mods ...

... the wait for DG can't be more excruciating

The pain is a gift from Papa Nurgle

 Melissia wrote:
Because Games Workshop has ultimate and absolute control over their lore. They don't NEED to limit the battles in their upcoming campaigns to ONLY marines vs marines. They CHOSE to. So everyone else gets left out. Again.

This isn't Imperium of Man vs Chaos. This is Space Marines vs Space Marines.

Alright so if it was demons vs space marines is wouldn't be an issue? I'm a bit confused, as demons have gotten as much or more attention than CSM have the past few years. Honestly, outside tyranids and orcs CSM were the third most joke of a faction for years now. So forgive me if I find whining about CSM getting a spotlight in campaign and release schedule a bit annoying. Yes, we get it you lump every single marine army together, even if it makes no sense.

Anyways, I'm curious how the ratio of codex+new models vs just codex will break down. Astartes and deathguard obviously both are getting new models, I'm interested if anyone else is getting them, or if it'll be just rules till Christmas.

 JimOnMars wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am excited for the CSM codex. I just hope they don't nerf anything we currently already have... >_<

I'm expecting minimal changes on stuff in the indexes, clarification of rules, changes of points (anything drasticly over or under pointed will be fixed)

I wouldn't think so. The CSM codex was probably sent to the printer months ago. There probably hasn't been much play testing between the time the indexes were set and this codex was. I doubt GW knew back then what the broken stuff was. They are only now getting an inkling. I doubt any codex in 2017 (or at least for a few months) will have point values fixed based upon what we know now.

But... they sent the Chaos Index to the printers a few months before it was released, and likely before the guys from FLG had a chance to playtest it. Theoretically, it could include rules changes owing to playtesting.

I am excited about the CSM Codex for the simple reason that it means I don't need to carry around 5 different books to play a game anymore. Imperial Armor 13, Traitor's Hate, and Traitor Legions are all now things of the past.

Here's hoping they never go there again. Had more books than I had models in some games.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like they've been talking about a campaign that they're getting set to launch at the end of this month(July 27th) that takes place in a specific system and has a narrative of Death Guard and Chaos Marines assaulting an area where two factions(Grey Knights and Ultramarines) were known to be holed up.

And that campaign had to take place in that system and feature those armies. Couldn't have taken place in literally any other part of the galaxy, couldn't have featured any of the other dozen factions in 40k...

You're making it sound like the campaign locked them into updating things this way, instead of the campaign simply being a marketing tool to support all the new kits and armies that were going to be updated first anyway, which is what it is.

Just saying that it is what it is. They chose to do things this way, likely because as they did with Age of Sigmar's campaign last year(Realm of Life) they've built up story stuff to go in with the model releases.

Anyway, Reece from FLG said GW plans on releasing 10 40k codices this year alone? With the year more than halfway over already? They'd have to be releasing 2 every month. They must be small releases then, I don't see them keeping that kind of pace and still releasing new kits to go with it.

GW did an announcement and an FAQ to go with it. They intend on having 10 40k codices out by Christmas. Death Guard, Grey Knights, Space Marines, and Chaos Space Marines are the first ones to get released.

To answer the kit part:

Is every army getting new models too?
Some of them. Certain armies will get new miniatures alongside their new codex, and others won’t. Don’t worry though, our miniatures designers are working hard and we’ll get to all of you eventually – we’re well aware you all want new models for your chosen army.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's almost like they've been talking about a campaign that they're getting set to launch at the end of this month(July 27th) that takes place in a specific system and has a narrative of Death Guard and Chaos Marines assaulting an area where two factions(Grey Knights and Ultramarines) were known to be holed up.

Yeah it's kind of a dumb decision.

Alright? why?

Because Games Workshop has ultimate and absolute control over their lore. They don't NEED to limit the battles in their upcoming campaigns to ONLY marines vs marines. They CHOSE to. So everyone else gets left out. Again.

This isn't Imperium of Man vs Chaos. This is Space Marines vs Space Marines.

Except they've kinda/sorta talked about the way this is going to work and yeah it is Imperium of Man vs Chaos. They made a point of talking about that it's not just Guilliman and his Primaris and the Ultramarines holding the system. The Guard, Inquisition, everyone has some sort of presence there. Because this is seemingly following Guillman breaking Mortarion's siege of the system and Mortarion getting ready for a rematch.

Xenos wins will, apparently, count against whoever is doing better at that point in time.

This is why I didn't bother to buy indices

Yeah, I can't imagine many people being happy about their index needing to be replaced already. It's barely been a month. And you know the codices will cost at least twice as much, too.

I like the Plague Mortar thingy. That's nice.

 Galas wrote:
The generic Detachments basically allow full freedom to make your army as you wan't. What form could take "themed" detachments?

I always think back to the old way you used to build armies in Epic (ie. Space Marine 2nd Ed), especially the Tyranid Hive Mind structure.

Something like that in 40K would be fun.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Yeah, I can't imagine many people being happy about their index needing to be replaced already. It's barely been a month. And you know the codices will cost at least twice as much, too.

Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Deathwatch Players are sitting shiny, like everyone else.

Vanilla Marine players should have seen it coming. The Space Marine codex is always the first codex, they said they would churn out codexes right away, and Marine and Chaos Marine Codexes were rumore for July Release, before 8E even dropped.

 Omega-soul wrote:
Inquisitor Obi-wan Sherlock Clouseau at your service!
Also that vehicle called Plagueburst Crawler

Spoiler:

I hope we get better pics for it soon. Even with the mortar pointed out and the artwork my brain cant unsee the wrecked half Chimera

It will be like AOS where some factions get books with full releases and some get books with no/minor repacks (Beastclaw Raiders, Flesheaters, Bonesplittaz). I would strongly wager Grey Knights would not get any model releases. In fact I doubt any of the impending Loyalist Space Marine variants will get releases. They just aren't necessary.

In AOS those books I mentioned are actually well liked because they felt creative and fresh despite featuring old models. I hope we see the same approach with the 40k equivalents.

Umbros wrote:
It will be like AOS where some factions get books with full releases and some get books with no/minor repacks (Beastclaw Raiders, Flesheaters, Bonesplittaz). I would strongly wager Grey Knights would not get any model releases. In fact I doubt any of the impending Loyalist Space Marine variants will get releases. They just aren't necessary.

In AOS those books I mentioned are actually well liked because they felt creative and fresh despite featuring old models. I hope we see the same approach with the 40k equivalents.

Grey Knights could use some new stuff though, that said I doubt they'll get much, they might however get "Grey Knight" variation rules for Primaris Marines

One or two clampack characters or a squad box alongside every codex wouldn't be out of the question IMO.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
That same model appears in the Chaos Index, along with converted Plague Marines.

It isn't new, it's a conversion by Maxime, one of the studio army painters. He painted them in the same scheme as his personal Nurgle army.

The rhino thing right, not the crawler thing on the left?

Correct yeah, I was talking about the Rhino.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

I know you weren't blaming your local store, my point is this campaign is open to anyone. so no one's being "left out"

Non space marines players are pretty much left out of a marine vs marine campaign.

 Melissia wrote:
This isn't Imperium of Man vs Chaos. This is Space Marines vs Space Marines.

Exactly. Why people seem to perpetually confuse the two is beyond me. Do they forget about the existence of AM (Astra Militarum), the other AM (Adeptus Mechanicus), the third AM (Adeptus Ministorum), the fourth… wait no, there isn't any more AM I guess, the Inquisition, the Assassins, the Tempestus, the Lost and Damned, the daemons, the mutants, …

SilverAlien wrote:
Yes, we get it you lump every single marine army together, even if it makes no sense.

A space marine is a space marine is a space marine.

BrianDavion wrote:

Umbros wrote:
It will be like AOS where some factions get books with full releases and some get books with no/minor repacks (Beastclaw Raiders, Flesheaters, Bonesplittaz). I would strongly wager Grey Knights would not get any model releases. In fact I doubt any of the impending Loyalist Space Marine variants will get releases. They just aren't necessary.

In AOS those books I mentioned are actually well liked because they felt creative and fresh despite featuring old models. I hope we see the same approach with the 40k equivalents.

Grey Knights could use some new stuff though, that said I doubt they'll get much, they might however get "Grey Knight" variation rules for Primaris Marines

And this is why we get crap like Baby Carriers and Santa Sleighs because GW keep shoveling them into to the Snowflake Chapters, giving them powerful rules and ignoring other factions - I wonder why they sell well..

My Space Wolves did not need this nonsense and nor did my Grey Knights.

 Mr Morden wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Umbros wrote:
It will be like AOS where some factions get books with full releases and some get books with no/minor repacks (Beastclaw Raiders, Flesheaters, Bonesplittaz). I would strongly wager Grey Knights would not get any model releases. In fact I doubt any of the impending Loyalist Space Marine variants will get releases. They just aren't necessary.

In AOS those books I mentioned are actually well liked because they felt creative and fresh despite featuring old models. I hope we see the same approach with the 40k equivalents.

Grey Knights could use some new stuff though, that said I doubt they'll get much, they might however get "Grey Knight" variation rules for Primaris Marines

And this is why we get crap like Baby Carriers and Santa Sleighs because GW keep shoveling them into to the Snowflake Chapters, giving them powerful rules and ignoring other factions - I wonder why they sell well..

My Space Wolves did not need this nonsense and nor did my Grey Knights.

rules for Primaris Marines with GK abilities is special snowflake crap? we're talking something like an inceptor squad with psykic powers


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

I know you weren't blaming your local store, my point is this campaign is open to anyone. so no one's being "left out"

Non space marines players are pretty much left out of a marine vs marine campaign.

true and it was dissappointing when GW said only space marines and chaos marines could particpate in the Kronor campaign. ohh wait they never said that

BrianDavion wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

I know you weren't blaming your local store, my point is this campaign is open to anyone. so no one's being "left out"

Non space marines players are pretty much left out of a marine vs marine campaign.

true and it was dissappointing when GW said only space marines and chaos marines could particpate in the Kronor campaign. ohh wait they never said that

But they have made it clear Xeno's players will have almost no impact on the outcome of the campaign, being unable to contribute to either side really. It's a pathetic sop and whether my Eldar or Nids play or not will make no difference at all to things.

 Imateria wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

I know you weren't blaming your local store, my point is this campaign is open to anyone. so no one's being "left out"

Non space marines players are pretty much left out of a marine vs marine campaign.

true and it was dissappointing when GW said only space marines and chaos marines could particpate in the Kronor campaign. ohh wait they never said that

But they have made it clear Xeno's players will have almost no impact on the outcome of the campaign, being unable to contribute to either side really. It's a pathetic sop and whether my Eldar or Nids play or not will make no difference at all to things.

Actually, they said that xenos can contribute by either lowering Imperial or Chaos score with their victories. So basically, Xenos gets to screw over the other factions for not inviting them to the party.

 Imateria wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

I know you weren't blaming your local store, my point is this campaign is open to anyone. so no one's being "left out"

Non space marines players are pretty much left out of a marine vs marine campaign.

true and it was dissappointing when GW said only space marines and chaos marines could particpate in the Kronor campaign. ohh wait they never said that

But they have made it clear Xeno's players will have almost no impact on the outcome of the campaign, being unable to contribute to either side really. It's a pathetic sop and whether my Eldar or Nids play or not will make no difference at all to things.

Yeap I'm still not convinced Xenos aren't getting unofficially kicked out of the game like sisters where they just drop support then slowly phase the range out over time. Even if we do get updates it feels like we are a lot less relevant to anything this edition and a clear after thought. I'm still not sure if I want to keep playing 40k at all since I'm a big xenos fan and it looks clear there isn't much room for us now days with the whole primarch craze going on. It's basically 30k mk2 at this point.

We get to take away victories, but it is still not us narrative in the event doing it. It's just a meta game with no consequences to us. Why should we care. Why should I narratively give a gak about the IoM when every day I hear how Tau should be removed from the game by rabid annoying IoM fans? I don't even know if I want to build my Deathwatch army up anymore since the fan base is absolutely toxic and cringe to the point I don't want to associate with marine players anymore.

I know me and my local xenos are going to be taking away all our wins from IoM. To think I would ever enjoy chaos more than the IoM seems almost unthinkable to me, but I think they'll be better neighbours at this point.

 Gamgee wrote:
Yeap I'm still not convinced Xenos aren't getting unofficially kicked out of the game like sisters where they just drop support then slowly phase the range out over time.

You really think GW are going to phase out:

1. Orks.
2. Eldar.
3. Dark Eldar.
4. Tyranids.
5. Tau.
6. Necrons.
7. Harlequins.
8. Genestealer Cults.

And to back this up you have:

1. A campaign that just happens to use the first four Codex releases.
2. Primaris Marines.

I mean GW has shown 0 levels of sentimentality when it comes to destroying their legacy so they can slap a ™ after something, but to phase out all the Xenos races of 40K? Come on...

 Gamgee wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Really? you're being left out? man what dick at the local store won't let you take part in the campaign? ohh wait that's not whats happening at all.

Whoever said I blamed the local store? Oh wait you did because your only response to my argument was to be dishonest.

I know you weren't blaming your local store, my point is this campaign is open to anyone. so no one's being "left out"

Non space marines players are pretty much left out of a marine vs marine campaign.

true and it was dissappointing when GW said only space marines and chaos marines could particpate in the Kronor campaign. ohh wait they never said that

But they have made it clear Xeno's players will have almost no impact on the outcome of the campaign, being unable to contribute to either side really. It's a pathetic sop and whether my Eldar or Nids play or not will make no difference at all to things.

Yeap I'm still not convinced Xenos aren't getting unofficially kicked out of the game like sisters where they just drop support then slowly phase the range out over time. Even if we do get updates it feels like we are a lot less relevant to anything this edition and a clear after thought. I'm still not sure if I want to keep playing 40k at all since I'm a big xenos fan and it looks clear there isn't much room for us now days with the whole primarch craze going on. It's basically 30k mk2 at this point.

We get to take away victories, but it is still not us narrative in the event doing it. It's just a meta game with no consequences to us. Why should we care. Why should I narratively give a gak about the IoM when every day I hear how Tau should be removed from the game by rabid annoying IoM fans? I don't even know if I want to build my Deathwatch army up anymore since the fan base is absolutely toxic and cringe to the point I don't want to associate with marine players anymore.

I know me and my local xenos are going to be taking away all our wins from IoM. To think I would ever enjoy chaos more than the IoM seems almost unthinkable to me, but I think they'll be better neighbours at this point.

If you think the Xenos armies are getting removed you are a fool. Xenos players can contribute to either side of the campaign. Yes, it isn't centred around them. This is just the start of the new edition. Some of the whining is incredible.

Guys, It's Gamgee, his grasp of reality is somewhat tenuous.

Despite the fact that I've often been right more than wrong? Granted I will personally say this one is a little out there even for me. Games Workshop is a company first and it wants to make as much money as it can. it doesn't give a rats ass about you or anything else. If they can find a way to make more money and if ti requires destroy everything that is here they will do it no questions asked. Old marines are effectively dead and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. They aren't going to make new kits for an old army when they can milk everyone all over again for a new marine range. If even the old marines aren't safe nothing is.

It's not totally outside the possibility with how well 30k sells they got the idea to turn 40k more into that direction since it sells. Games Workshop is a company and is no ones friend no matter how much PR they hire to act like it.