Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Chance for that sweet t4 though.
On the other hand the militia champion atleast has bs 4+

Really a toss up, until the mutants decide to die because of Chaos spawnification syndrome.

[


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thank you for the Noisemarines rules clearification.

drakerocket wrote:
I was considering just doing a knight conversion as a base to a kytan because I like the look of knights better. Can't imagine anyone would be too ticked about it since they're both in the same class.

This is what I did too. I don’t think anyone would mistake that it’s a Kytan. I used the gauntlet to hold a D-Thirster’s axe (had a spare), used two “small” BT axes to make the bunny ears, and cut off the extra shoulder guns and put WHFB marauder shields onto the spots instead. Looks like a Kytan without any issue. And it of course has the assault cannon.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
I was considering just doing a knight conversion as a base to a kytan because I like the look of knights better. Can't imagine anyone would be too ticked about it since they're both in the same class.

This is what I did too. I don’t think anyone would mistake that it’s a Kytan. I used the gauntlet to hold a D-Thirster’s axe (had a spare), used two “small” BT axes to make the bunny ears, and cut off the extra shoulder guns and put WHFB marauder shields onto the spots instead. Looks like a Kytan without any issue. And it of course has the assault cannon.

Pictures please!

What are people's thoughts on Renegade Mutilators after CA? At 35pts, they're now basically the cost of a terminator with c-bolter and axe, but they've got +1 wound, +1 attack, and a better weapon (generally). I know 4" move sucks on an assault unit, but the Renegade advance and charge trait can nullify it a bit. They can also benefit from Codex Daemon combos. At 105pts they seem like they could be a decent disruption suicide unit.

Well, assuming they need to get 24" to charge...

You're looking at over three turns, on average, before they get a charge off.

So... Still not very good. Might be decent as a Deep Strike unit (cheap as chips) that can vaguely bully stuff, but starting on the table is a non-starter.

Er... why would they EVER start on the board and walk?
Deepstrike turn 2, attempt a 9" charge, and then move 4"+D6" +2d6" charge every turn thereafter. With advance and charge, they don't seem any slower than any other deepstriking infantry.

 McGibs wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Renegade Mutilators after CA? At 35pts, they're now basically the cost of a terminator with c-bolter and axe, but they've got +1 wound, +1 attack, and a better weapon (generally). I know 4" move sucks on an assault unit, but the Renegade advance and charge trait can nullify it a bit. They can also benefit from Codex Daemon combos. At 105pts they seem like they could be a decent disruption suicide unit.

A lot more viable now could work well in renegades or in world eaters. You can ally Khorne herald, give mutilators mark of Khorne and reroll charges.

Plus he'll boost their strength so they're averaging 12 str 8 -2 AP 2D attacks. Which would make them fairly decent against even knights with VotLW.

 small_gods wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Renegade Mutilators after CA? At 35pts, they're now basically the cost of a terminator with c-bolter and axe, but they've got +1 wound, +1 attack, and a better weapon (generally). I know 4" move sucks on an assault unit, but the Renegade advance and charge trait can nullify it a bit. They can also benefit from Codex Daemon combos. At 105pts they seem like they could be a decent disruption suicide unit.

A lot more viable now could work well in renegades or in world eaters. You can ally Khorne herald, give mutilators mark of Khorne and reroll charges.

Plus he'll boost their strength so they're averaging 12 str 8 -2 AP 2D attacks. Which would make them fairly decent against even knights with VotLW.

If only the model would not look like a bootleg chinese knock off of obliterators.....

What is the latest take on Blood Slaughterer versus Maulerfield after CA 2018?

Both came down in price, with the Maulerfied being around 30pts cheapter than the Blood Slaughterer.

Both fill the same battlefield role and have a similar profile, with each having a few strengths over the other.

Is the Blood Slaughterer worth it for 30pts more?

Who buys mutis, or oblits for that matter?

You make your own. cheaper AND better looking (an no duplicates if you run a lot)

 BoomWolf wrote:
Who buys mutis, or oblits for that matter?

You make your own. cheaper AND better looking (an no duplicates if you run a lot)

... me 9 oblits at least. I don't think they're as bad as people make out. Have thought of converting some centurions for Alpha legion oblits but have far more pressing projects to do! Mutalators however need some love.

 Darkseid wrote:
What is the latest take on Blood Slaughterer versus Maulerfield after CA 2018?

Both came down in price, with the Maulerfied being around 30pts cheapter than the Blood Slaughterer.

Both fill the same battlefield role and have a similar profile, with each having a few strengths over the other.

Is the Blood Slaughterer worth it for 30pts more?

In my experience, yes. The Slaughterer is easier to get into cover, and overall just has a better kill potential against more targets. The handful of times ive played either unit, the Slaughterer ALWAYS got its points back, where the Maulerfiend usually just got shot to pieces or didnt really do much in the killing department and just acted as a meat shield for something else.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Darkseid wrote:
What is the latest take on Blood Slaughterer versus Maulerfield after CA 2018?

Both came down in price, with the Maulerfied being around 30pts cheapter than the Blood Slaughterer.

Both fill the same battlefield role and have a similar profile, with each having a few strengths over the other.

Is the Blood Slaughterer worth it for 30pts more?

In my experience, yes. The Slaughterer is easier to get into cover, and overall just has a better kill potential against more targets. The handful of times ive played either unit, the Slaughterer ALWAYS got its points back, where the Maulerfiend usually just got shot to pieces or didnt really do much in the killing department and just acted as a meat shield for something else.

That...sounds like more luck than actual unit difference.

4 slaughterers cost exactly the same as 5 lasher maulers.
5 maulers have 60 wounds between them, while the slaughterers have only 40.
This means not only that the maulers as a group are 50% more durable (and a such you can claim a singly mauler is 50% more durable cost-compared), but they degrade slower, both individually as it takes 7 wounds to degrade one rather than 5, and as a group as it takes 12 wounds to lose a member, rather than 10.

Against non-infantry where the slaughter's bloody rampage ability does not trigger, I'd expect similar results from the two groups, even though the slaughterer has WS3, because the mauler has more attacks. compared to the 28 attacks the slaughterers throw, the maulers throw 20 superior ones, plus 30 more that are not as good, but still do alot by sheer numbers.
When fighting infantry with bloody rampage the slaughters become more deadly than maulers by clear margins if your targets are MEQ, but it drops again to about equal against GEQ-and honestly hitting either of them with maulers/slaughters looks a bit like a waste of your daemon engine, and blind fury means a slaughterer trapped by an time consuming tarpit cant disengage.
Basically the difference in most cases just isn't big enough. and in some a cases (like T5 3+ that isn't infantry, bikers for example) a single mauler actually out-punches a slaughterer in a one-to-one comparison.

Also, while khorne is a fine choice for your smashy engine, at times you want another god to synergies with another unit in your army. a mauler isn't god locked, giving it more options.

And I've seen photos of them side by side, the slaughterer isn't that much smaller. hiding one should not differ much.


TL;DR-slaughterers don't hit harder enough to compensate for the fact they are just squishy in comparison. at least for most lists.

Abaddon303 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

drakerocket wrote:
I was considering just doing a knight conversion as a base to a kytan because I like the look of knights better. Can't imagine anyone would be too ticked about it since they're both in the same class.

This is what I did too. I don’t think anyone would mistake that it’s a Kytan. I used the gauntlet to hold a D-Thirster’s axe (had a spare), used two “small” BT axes to make the bunny ears, and cut off the extra shoulder guns and put WHFB marauder shields onto the spots instead. Looks like a Kytan without any issue. And it of course has the assault cannon.

Pictures please!

Obviously not finished, but this should give the idea!

Oh wow that's spiffy! How did you do the head fins?

Outside me being upset the picture is sideways, that looks really good!

It looks like the lovechild of a knight with a kytan.
In all the right ways! Well done.

Reminds me of that conversion I saw online a long titimtitime ago where someone made a Nurgle Lord Of Skulls carrying a Scythe. Simply beautiful.

Recently wanted to build some stalk tanks for my renegades, instead i ended up with two modified Forgefiended amirigers and a S.C.A or a self crawling artillery piece.
But i dare say this one positive thing about knights, they are easily adaptable.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 McGibs wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Renegade Mutilators after CA? At 35pts, they're now basically the cost of a terminator with c-bolter and axe, but they've got +1 wound, +1 attack, and a better weapon (generally). I know 4" move sucks on an assault unit, but the Renegade advance and charge trait can nullify it a bit. They can also benefit from Codex Daemon combos. At 105pts they seem like they could be a decent disruption suicide unit.

A lot more viable now could work well in renegades or in world eaters. You can ally Khorne herald, give mutilators mark of Khorne and reroll charges.

Plus he'll boost their strength so they're averaging 12 str 8 -2 AP 2D attacks. Which would make them fairly decent against even knights with VotLW.

If only the model would not look like a bootleg chinese knock off of obliterators.....

Erm, how does allying in Khorne herald , and giving them mark of khorne make them able to reroll charges? @@ I thought Khorne herald just gives them +1 str.

Daemonic Locus.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Daemonic Locus.

Ah ok I see. Hmmm, that's not bad actually. Its still by no means a sure thing. But last game I played, I ended up rolling a 7 on 3d6 for my bloodletter bomb, so even that is by no means a sure thing either.... :( Now that I think about it abit more though, having a herald there basically means you increase the cost of that deepstrike drop. Just something to consider. Because while the Mutilator unit is around 100 points, the herald costs another 56 points. So, it ends up being close to the cost of a 20 man blood letter bomb anyway. And you need a pure khorne detachment too for the herald to get that loci.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Daemonic Locus.

Ah ok I see. Hmmm, that's not bad actually. Its still by no means a sure thing. But last game I played, I ended up rolling a 7 on 3d6 for my bloodletter bomb, so even that is by no means a sure thing either.... :( Now that I think about it abit more though, having a herald there basically means you increase the cost of that deepstrike drop. Just something to consider. Because while the Mutilator unit is around 100 points, the herald costs another 56 points. So, it ends up being close to the cost of a 20 man blood letter bomb anyway. And you need a pure khorne detachment too for the herald to get that loci.

Yeah, I approach this stuff at a list-building level - Heralds add most of 100pts to various daemon ploys, buuut their locus boosts other units as well. So, a bletterbomb like this can rendezvous with a Maulerfiend, Defiler, LoS, etc, and give it strength & charge boosts.

I like this sort of thing best with Slaanesh and Nurgle - the former to tag units with Fiends to make burning tar pits, the latter to heal big things that are feeding Epidemius. But giving loads of units a virtual Icon of Wrath is ace. Karanak is a pretty good choice for it, actually - cheap, fast, and gives Khorne some DTW coverage.

drakerocket wrote:
Oh wow that's spiffy! How did you do the head fins?

The head fins/bunny ears are both axes from a Bloodthirster; I had two kits, used the D-axe in one, and the double headed axe in the second, so I had the basic axe free for conversions from both boxes; so both basic axe heads were cut and trimmed to be the Kytan’s ears. And the second D-axe that was unused by a ‘Thirster sits in his left hand. Like I said, I don’t think anybody familiar w/Forgeworld would mistake it.

New beta rule leaked - AA & HA can double-tap with rapid fire bolt weapons at full range if they stand still or are a Terminator or Biker (or Centurion).

So... CB Chosen not affected *that* much, given that they generally won’t start play with a target and have to walk or ride towards it. Terminators and Bikers get an interesting boost. CB Biker champ could be pretty good, now. Blightlords... become a bit better at their niche, but at the same a lot more units can do their niche.

It’s a pretty good buff for Scarab Occult, and it’s ok for Rubrics. The latter will still have to either mover or a turn or two or hope that a target obliges, though.

I think this probably does the best for bikers, honestly. Not that bikes are great, but a 3 man squad with champ having a combi bolter becomes a pretty solid harassment unit if it can stay at 24 inches indefinitely, particularly if it is alpha legion.

Even a nine-man squad becomes a not awful choice for veterans of the long war / endless cacophony / prescience. It would be some pretty solid murder against boyz, guardians and other chaff.

Either selection is a good escort for a winged slan DP with the elixir.

Honestly I don't even hate the looks of an outrider of that with 1 big biker group and two small ones.

I wouldn't say competitive, but I think that extra 12 inch range can really give over some flexibility to a unit type which really banks on mobility (and staying outside of 12 inches for the alpha legion suitability increase).

After bikers you'd probably have to say rubrics.

Overall, probably deathwatch intercessors, land raider crusaders and dawneagle jetbikes got the best of it, however.

Shame it doesn't help heavy bolters.

Dawneagles don't get it.

Math-hammer would have the above killing about I think....43-44 boys? 308 points. The bikers + prince clock in around 380. That's not the best trade, but it of course ignores a not-terrible melee profile vs non-melee units on the bikers and the mack-truck melee profile of the daemon prince.

Tragic that the warp bolter is assault 2 and not rapid fire 2 XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hrmm? Why wouldn't dawn eagles get it?

Dawneagles don't get it because they don't have the <ADEPTUS ASTARTES> keyword.