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I'm just curious, as I've been thinking lately about prison. I'm not in prison or headed for prison, but I have found myself considering the nature of the prison system (particularly in America, given that it's kind of the only type of prison system with which I have even an inkling of experience).

Anyway, the point I'm getting to is that I'm still unsure precisely what the purpose of the prison system is. If it's for rehabilitation, it seems to be doing a pretty poor job given conditions inside prisons. On the other side, if it's just supposed to be a way to separate dangerous individuals from society, how can it really be effective if those dangerous individuals are released again? I'm mulling things over, but I'm at a stalemate with myself.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

The prison system is just stupid. If its intended to rehabilitate criminals, then its miserable failure. If its intended to punish, harden and then release criminals, its a success.

When I think of prison I think of American History X or this

I watch the shows Lock Up and Lockdown quite frequently and I agree that our system is a joke.

Its very interesting when they go to prisons in foreign countries. Talk about hardcore!!!!! Alot of these other countries dont take any crap when it comes to punishing criminals. Thats how we need to be.

Will it ever change here in the states???? Probably not. Too many bleeding hearts.

I was reading about how here in Florida......Death Row does not have AC in the summer or heat in the winter. Knowing how our Florida summers can get 100+ degrees......they are forced to sit and sweat inside thier cells. Alot of protestors have tried making a big stink calling the conditions inhumane. Well isnt what they did to get on Death Row inhumane?????? Let them suffer.

Or, we could try to rehabilitate criminals. As opposed to torturing them for years on taxpayer money like you suggested.

Ah Taskmaster99, do go on.

I'm given to understand the US prison system works quite well as a money making exercise.

A friend of mine was unfortunate enough to find himself in a Thai prison last year, after working without a visa there, that didn't sound like a fun place. 15 people to a 20ft square room, with a hole in the floor as a toilet, and fish heads for your meals.

That's a funny thing to say TaskMaster99, I would definitely have thought the US system to be hardcore, compared to what we have here in the UK and Europe!

I think you are right though that there needs to be a serious examination of what the system is actually meant to achieve. Keeping those dangerous to society in some form or another away from law abiding citizens must be the priority, but also that there can be some form of rehabilitation. While rehabilitation is often argued about, specifically in terms of whether it is possible or not in most cases, I think what is unarguable is that the opposite often takes place and some prisons ultimately 'train' the people inside to be even more unlikely to fit into society if they are released, or are otherwise further twisted and damaged by their incarceration. Take for example the guy who went in for 3 car break-ins (under the '3 strikes and you are out' ruling), got repeatedly raped in prison and then ended up raping and killing a girl upon his release. While no doubt he deserved punishment for the criminal damage and theft, the net result of his punishment you could view as a failure.

As for the death penalty, well that is a whole other, and particularly nasty can of worms. Personally I think most of the police in this country have to be told that they can breath through their nose, so the overall possibility of a mistake being made and the wrong person being convicted are far too high. Another criticism is that executions can be politically motivated, with pressure exerted to have someone executed when they should otherwise not have been. Given the choice, I would rather see a hundred people incarcerated indefinitely rather than a single innocent person be put to death. The annals of convicted criminals being executed have far too many "woops, we didn't know that at the time" comments.

And personally, regarding something being 'humane' (as much as it is possible when taking someone's life against their will), I wish people would move away from the 'eye for an eye' savagery as much as possible. The story recently about the guy who was lead to the execution chamber a dozen times or so, only for it to be cancelled at the last moment each time, I think is seriously messed up. By the end, when they did finally execute him, his mind was gone already. Although by all accounts he was a simpleton, so the chances are he probably didn't have a full conception of what was going on anyway.

We should categorise prisoners according to not only their risk and type of sentence but also based on whether they can be rehabilitated.

Thoase who can should be kept in a greater degree of isolation not less, contact with fellow prisoners hardens prisoners, they become 'universities of crime' and networking centres. Short term unlikely to re-offend prisoners should be seperated from each other.

This helps because the bordom and lack of contact will tell the inmate, dont come back.

For habitual criminals the roles are opposite, let them congregate if they wish and make prison more comfortable for long sentence prisoners. The emphasis is now on efficient containment alone.

LoneLictor wrote:Or, we could try to rehabilitate criminals. As opposed to torturing them for years on taxpayer money like you suggested.

Or we could bring back the whole "death by firing squad" for those on death row and limit the number of appeals inmates can make.

There is actually a lot of support for the firing squad, and there is currently legislation in the works for it in Florida (I think HB 325).

So many appeals are allowable because of the objection to which drugs are used. A firing squad removes that appeal.

Or we could go back to the gallows. Saddam Hussein swears by it.

@Pacific: In essence, it's the first point you make (regarding the training of criminals to be even less capable of assimilating into society and more effective as criminals) that causes the greatest concern for me.

The entire model of the prison system (i.e. confine a huge mass of criminals into a small area with only a comparative handful of authority figures compared to inmates) seems keyed to further damaging the minds and overall behavior of criminals confined in the prison. For all the apparent control of maintained over criminals in such confines, it is in the fine details (cell-to-cell communication, rapes, contraband, etc.) that control is lost, allowing criminal networks to continue communicating in close proximity and allowing for violence to be perpetrated toward inmates from other inmates.

This of course brings up the problem of what to do with criminals if the death penalty is too barbaric, prisons are actually more of a problem than a remedy, and eye-for-an-eye style justice is foolish (another point in which I'm inclined to agree with you).

Cameron Todd Willingham, An innocent man put to death despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Why? Because his kids died and there was faulty evidence that was taken as dogma from the arson inspecter because he had experiance.
Innocent people do die in the death penalty. The appeals are supposed to make it possible that doesnt happen. Why? because people assume that if the are on death row they already must be guilty.

The justice system isn't perfect, but it at least can fix its mistakes. There have been plenty of times when innocent people were put into jail, but then we figured it out and let 'em out. Especially with the advanced in forensics and what not. But if you kill people, you can't fix that.

If a person is 100% proven to be guilty and 100% proven to be unrehabilitate-able then its okay to execute them. But to get the 100%, there need to be lots of appeals and diagnostics gak.

I actually figured out the best way to survive prison unmolested (even though I read a while ago from a reputable source, forgotten which one after a decade, that most prison rape stories are made up)-when you get there, pull down your pants, gak in your hand, smear it on the wall (and maybe on your clothes). And don't forget to yell a lot. Nobody wants to get crazy all over their d***. I hear it's contagious. Biting off the end of your finger and spitting it into a guy's face will probably also work, just a lot more painfully. Also, don't wipe after using the bathroom-you might not be able to get crazy all over you, but you can certainly get poo on you.

Just in case you ever went to jail, you can appreciate my survival tips. I actually asked a friend of mine who is a cop about this theory, he looked at me, blinked a couple times, took a step back and told me that yes, it would definitely work-nobody would go near you. I haven't heard from him since.

I will more than likely get bashed for this....but I am all for "Eye for an Eye" justice. Maybe then people will learn from thier mistakes. One example is the treatment of child molestors. They are put in protective custody for thier own safety. Wrong!!!! Throw them in the general population and let the others do what needs to be done. You cant rehabilitate "Screwed up in the head".

As for the firing squad..........I vote yes. Bring it back.

I think a real big wood chipper would solve the problem, and be a strong deterrent as well.

An idea I've entertained is putting habitual violent types,rapists, child molestors, etc. on a refitted oil tanker. Give each man a knife and a five dollar bill, set sail for fun and adventure for six months without anyone being locked up and see what the rate of recidivism would be.


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That would also include all the crack they can handle, with the knowledge it can't leave the ship.

snurl wrote:I think a real big wood chipper would solve the problem, and be a strong deterrent as well.

If you ever have to spend the night in jail remember to use toilet paper to make a pillow. That's my handy tip for the day.

Prison should be for more minor offences, major offences shouldnt get to live on at all if proven guilty without doubt... they should just be turned into human fire wood and removed form this world... that should solve over crowding and worries over re-releasing them back into the world.

The minor offenders if not presistantly offending could be set free after a non luxury prison stay. but if they repeat offend they could get upgraded to major

I think prison/crime should work on a points system, where each crime is worth a certain number of points. You accumulate a certain number of points you get a certain punishment, ranging from a caution, fine, prison, etc.

Maybe two tracks, one for minor things like littering, traffic violations etc (with the possibility of a fixed number of these points going towards a major point), and one for 'major' crimes. With points being cumulative and never being removed (unless you go back and prove innocence).

Everyone loves it when points mean prizes!

Reform of prison itself? Seperate out the small fry from the hard core, cut down luxuries, solitary cells (I like the ones which can only be accessed from above with fine mesh and bars as they help stop stuff being passed between cells ) and rehabilitation for those who might benefit from it.

Personally, I think that all prison sentences should be one length: Until Rehabilitated.

Second offense? Obviously you're not interested in being rehabilitated. Life. Or death, if the crime involved violence.

Prison is the least efficient excersise in eugenics imaginable.

Some people can't operate in society without causing excess harm to others, so they are imprisoned. There's not much more to it thanthat.

Prison should merely be a holding station for penal legion/gladiator school recruitment.

It's a fething gakhole, that's what it is.

On a side note, I once worked at a moving company where I was the only employee who hadn't been to prison at some point.

Prisons exist for 4 reasons:

1) To rehabilitate criminals.

2) To protect society from dangerous people.

3) To act as a deterrent from people committing crimes in the first place.

4) To punish people for wrongdoings.


I think the US prison system isn't perfect, but it does a pretty good job, all things considered.

Somebody needs to let em know that achieving 2/4 is still failing.

This thread is full of facepalm...

Taskmaster99 wrote:I will more than likely get bashed for this....but I am all for "Eye for an Eye" justice. Maybe then people will learn from thier mistakes. One example is the treatment of child molestors. They are put in protective custody for thier own safety. Wrong!!!! Throw them in the general population and let the others do what needs to be done. You cant rehabilitate "Screwed up in the head".

As for the firing squad..........I vote yes. Bring it back.

+1
Why the hell should my tax dollars go towards keeping alive some worthless piece of crap who enjoyed savagely raping a child repeatedly, before bashing her head in with a hammer?

While I don't condone throwing the kiddie-killers/rapers into the general pop as it makes us no better than the vermin, a bullet to the brain is what they truely deserve. (however, I'm personally all for first castrating them while keeping them fully conscious, then sending them to death row.)
But no, instead the guy gets 'life with no chance of parole for 22 years'... Yep, that's "justice" for sure. The sick will be able to apply for parole before he's 55 and will likely tell some BS sob story to a bunch of moronic bleeding hearts so that he can go free and then hunt & kill another poor innocent child.

Then there's the complete crazies, like the psycho who went off his meds and beheaded some innocent guy on a bus because the voices in his head told him the poor guy was an alien trying to kill him.
Lock the morons up and throw away the key, because you can never be 100% certain these idiots will stay on their fething meds!

The modern prison system seems more about giving rights to the criminals than protecting the rest of us from them.

I find it funny that the most "Christian" country in the world is so old testament in it's thinking. There is a reason that America is pretty much the only developed country to use the death penalty, because it's barbaric.