Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am tired of hearing "We should go back the times of our fore fathers", "We need to do it exactly as the founders planned it", "We need to end this socialism and get back to good old George Washington Capitalism".

1. Sorry everyone but while these men were intelligent and brave, this does not make there 300+ year old opinions relevant in today's age.

2. An extension on this, taking verses from the Old Testament a more than 2,000 year old book is not a good idea, granted that perhaps, things may have changed in the past couple thousand years. ( Mostly turned towards using bible against gay rights)

3. Not all the founding fathers were all that together in the head, not stupid mind you, but somewhat crazy. Thomas Jefferson was very racist and very hard to deal with at times.

4. They did not take pride in there work all the time, George Washington only became president because he had to.

5. Some of the founding fathers were atheist! *GASP*, they strongly believed in the separation of church and state, and the right for men to not have religion hang over there lives like some requirement or standard.

90% of the people who talk about stuff like that don't have a clue about the Constitution past the first 2 amendments. Let alone what the word amendment means.

Don't know if there has ever been a time in America where historical revision has been so approved of or treat ignorance as a virtue.

Im tired of people looking to the past. Everyone thinks the past is great. It wasnt. And no matter what we cant return to the 50's.

Piston Honda wrote:Don't know if there has ever been a time in America where historical revision has been so approved of or treat ignorance as a virtue.

Don't you think a statement like this is just another form of referring back to "the good old days?" Back in the day, we didn't have as much historical revisionism and people weren't as ignorant!


But seriously though, there definitely have been other times. The Red Scare comes to mind, and I'm sure there were others.

Hordini wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Don't know if there has ever been a time in America where historical revision has been so approved of or treat ignorance as a virtue.

Don't you think a statement like this is just another form of referring back to "the good old days?" Back in the day, we didn't have as much historical revisionism and people weren't as ignorant!


But seriously though, there definitely have been other times. The Red Scare comes to mind, and I'm sure there were others.

It has more to do with purposely changing history to conform your beliefs just being ignorant of history and being proud of it. Rather than admitting your are wrong or stupid, it makes one look better to just change history. Even after they were proven wrong, people will put their fingers in the ears if it does not agree with their inexorable thoughts.

Not sure if this concept is growing or it is just more under the spotlight, but historical revisionists need to be looked down upon.

Just one question-who's this George Washington guy? You mean the peanut butter dude? Good call-we should go back to the good old days of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches-back to when we were all in elementary school and the worst thing in our lives was when we forgot to do our math sheet and missed recess. That is what you meant, right?

Alexzandvar wrote:I am tired of hearing "We should go back the times of our fore fathers", "We need to do it exactly as the founders planned it", "We need to end this socialism and get back to good old George Washington Capitalism".

1. Sorry everyone but while these men were intelligent and brave, this does not make there 300+ year old opinions relevant in today's age.

2012-1783 =229

5. Some of the founding fathers were atheist! *GASP*, they strongly believed in the separation of church and state, and the right for men to not have religion hang over there lives like some requirement or standard.

First atheists: prove it.

Second one statement disagrees with the other. "those old ideas are dumb"..."unless I agree with them"

Did this rant actually have a point?

Some people claim Jefferson was an atheist people he didn't agree with parts of the bible. Or they read some blog on the internet which is Loosey Goosey with its facts.

Oh this should be interesting.

In before frazz complaining about christian bashing threads

Piston Honda wrote:

Not sure if this concept is growing or it is just more under the spotlight, but historical revisionists need to be looked down upon.

I don't think you have a firm grip on what revisionist history is.

Piston Honda wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Don't know if there has ever been a time in America where historical revision has been so approved of or treat ignorance as a virtue.

Don't you think a statement like this is just another form of referring back to "the good old days?" Back in the day, we didn't have as much historical revisionism and people weren't as ignorant!


But seriously though, there definitely have been other times. The Red Scare comes to mind, and I'm sure there were others.

It has more to do with purposely changing history to conform your beliefs just being ignorant of history and being proud of it. Rather than admitting your are wrong or stupid, it makes one look better to just change history. Even after they were proven wrong, people will put their fingers in the ears if it does not agree with their inexorable thoughts.

Not sure if this concept is growing or it is just more under the spotlight, but historical revisionists need to be looked down upon.

Oh, I agree with you that changing history to conform to your beliefs is not a particularly good thing. I'm just saying it's definitely not a new thing.

sirlynchmob wrote:Oh this should be interesting.

In before frazz complaining about christian bashing threads

Frazz only jumps in on threads where weiner dogs take over the planet. They'd probably do a better job than us too. Hell, I'd vote a weiner dog into office. Would have done a better job than some idiots who made up their own words, ran away from war and passed college only cause daddy paid off the dean. Oops, guess I'm only talking about one guy. Weiner is better than Bush. I said it.

timetowaste85 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:Oh this should be interesting.

In before frazz complaining about christian bashing threads

Frazz only jumps in on threads where weiner dogs take over the planet. They'd probably do a better job than us too. Hell, I'd vote a weiner dog into office. Would have done a better job than some idiots who made up their own words, ran away from war and passed college only cause daddy paid off the dean. Oops, guess I'm only talking about one guy. Weiner is better than Bush. I said it.

As long as the Weiner isn't a republican or democrat I'd vote for it.

Truely they were as gods those who built this house.

Hordini wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Don't know if there has ever been a time in America where historical revision has been so approved of or treat ignorance as a virtue.

Don't you think a statement like this is just another form of referring back to "the good old days?" Back in the day, we didn't have as much historical revisionism and people weren't as ignorant!


But seriously though, there definitely have been other times. The Red Scare comes to mind, and I'm sure there were others.

It has more to do with purposely changing history to conform your beliefs just being ignorant of history and being proud of it. Rather than admitting your are wrong or stupid, it makes one look better to just change history. Even after they were proven wrong, people will put their fingers in the ears if it does not agree with their inexorable thoughts.

Not sure if this concept is growing or it is just more under the spotlight, but historical revisionists need to be looked down upon.

Oh, I agree with you that changing history to conform to your beliefs is not a particularly good thing. I'm just saying it's definitely not a new thing.

I never claimed it was a new thing. I said I never seen or heard of such a time where historical revision was so accepted like it is now. That, or it has just become more apparent with TV and internet.

Piston Honda wrote:

I never claimed it was a new thing. I said I never seen or heard of such a time where historical revision was so accepted like it is now. That, or it has just become more apparent with TV and internet.

no kidding, what is up with the history channel and their "aliens did it" campaign.

Piston Honda wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Piston Honda wrote:Don't know if there has ever been a time in America where historical revision has been so approved of or treat ignorance as a virtue.

Don't you think a statement like this is just another form of referring back to "the good old days?" Back in the day, we didn't have as much historical revisionism and people weren't as ignorant!


But seriously though, there definitely have been other times. The Red Scare comes to mind, and I'm sure there were others.

It has more to do with purposely changing history to conform your beliefs just being ignorant of history and being proud of it. Rather than admitting your are wrong or stupid, it makes one look better to just change history. Even after they were proven wrong, people will put their fingers in the ears if it does not agree with their inexorable thoughts.

Not sure if this concept is growing or it is just more under the spotlight, but historical revisionists need to be looked down upon.

Oh, I agree with you that changing history to conform to your beliefs is not a particularly good thing. I'm just saying it's definitely not a new thing.

I never claimed it was a new thing. I said I never seen or heard of such a time where historical revision was so accepted like it is now. That, or it has just become more apparent with TV and internet.

I realize you never claimed it was a new thing, you said you didn't know. That's why I posted that it definitely wasn't new, and provided an example from the past to support my claim. I can provide more, if the first one wasn't satisfactory.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:

Truely they were as gods those who built this house.

Ummm..... got any pictures of the house you built with hand-tools?

gregor_xenos wrote:

Ma55ter_fett wrote:

Truely they were as gods those who built this house.

Ummm..... got any pictures of the house you built with hand-tools?

Pift! Nope, I used slaves.

Just like this guy did...



Don't take this post too seriously.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:

Truely they were as gods those who built this house.

Or



There are some beautiful works of architectural art in in the 18th century particularly stone or brick (my own tastes anyway).

Alexzandvar wrote:I am tired of hearing "We should go back the times of our fore fathers", "We need to do it exactly as the founders planned it", "We need to end this socialism and get back to good old George Washington Capitalism".

1. Sorry everyone but while these men were intelligent and brave, this does not make there 300+ year old opinions relevant in today's age.

2. An extension on this, taking verses from the Old Testament a more than 2,000 year old book is not a good idea, granted that perhaps, things may have changed in the past couple thousand years. ( Mostly turned towards using bible against gay rights)

Now I am no Doctor of Mathology, but I think you may have massaged these numbers a bit.

The past is more a thing to say. "Don't do this we fethed up!"
History likes to repeat itself. (Truth if there ever was one.)

Alex you need to look at it more of a guideline.

Bromsy wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:I am tired of hearing "We should go back the times of our fore fathers", "We need to do it exactly as the founders planned it", "We need to end this socialism and get back to good old George Washington Capitalism".

1. Sorry everyone but while these men were intelligent and brave, this does not make there 300+ year old opinions relevant in today's age.

2. An extension on this, taking verses from the Old Testament a more than 2,000 year old book is not a good idea, granted that perhaps, things may have changed in the past couple thousand years. ( Mostly turned towards using bible against gay rights)

Now I am no Doctor of Mathology, but I think you may have massaged these numbers a bit.

well the ideas the founding fathers borrowed from where around since SPARTA!!!!!!, and that damn england proclimation I cant think of the name of right now so democracy is 2kish years old as well. new testament 1862ish years ago.

Some ideas will stand the test of time, but I didn't think this thread was serious so why nit pick over facts

sirlynchmob wrote:that damn england proclimation I cant think of the name of right now

Do you mean The Declaration of Arbroath?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath
In which case it's a Scottish proclamation.

marv335 wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:that damn england proclimation I cant think of the name of right now

Do you mean The Declaration of Arbroath?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Arbroath
In which case it's a Scottish proclamation.

actually I was going for Magna Carta I needed a few glasses of wine to kill off the weaker brain cells so I could remember it

I wish I could revise the history of me reading this idiotic thread.

sirlynchmob wrote:

Bromsy wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:I am tired of hearing "We should go back the times of our fore fathers", "We need to do it exactly as the founders planned it", "We need to end this socialism and get back to good old George Washington Capitalism".

1. Sorry everyone but while these men were intelligent and brave, this does not make there 300+ year old opinions relevant in today's age.

2. An extension on this, taking verses from the Old Testament a more than 2,000 year old book is not a good idea, granted that perhaps, things may have changed in the past couple thousand years. ( Mostly turned towards using bible against gay rights)

Now I am no Doctor of Mathology, but I think you may have massaged these numbers a bit.

well the ideas the founding fathers borrowed from where around since SPARTA!!!!!!, and that damn england proclimation I cant think of the name of right now so democracy is 2kish years old as well. new testament 1862ish years ago.

Some ideas will stand the test of time, but I didn't think this thread was serious so why nit pick over facts

What ideas from Sparta were those? Hukking chiodren with defects over a cliff, or sending them off to grow up in a camp and learn to be warriors?

Relapse wrote:...or sending them off to grow up in a camp and learn to be warriors?

And a fine tradition it is.

Relapse wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:

Bromsy wrote:

Alexzandvar wrote:I am tired of hearing "We should go back the times of our fore fathers", "We need to do it exactly as the founders planned it", "We need to end this socialism and get back to good old George Washington Capitalism".

1. Sorry everyone but while these men were intelligent and brave, this does not make there 300+ year old opinions relevant in today's age.

2. An extension on this, taking verses from the Old Testament a more than 2,000 year old book is not a good idea, granted that perhaps, things may have changed in the past couple thousand years. ( Mostly turned towards using bible against gay rights)

Now I am no Doctor of Mathology, but I think you may have massaged these numbers a bit.

well the ideas the founding fathers borrowed from where around since SPARTA!!!!!!, and that damn england proclimation I cant think of the name of right now so democracy is 2kish years old as well. new testament 1862ish years ago.

Some ideas will stand the test of time, but I didn't think this thread was serious so why nit pick over facts

What ideas from Sparta were those? Hukking chiodren with defects over a cliff, or sending them off to grow up in a camp and learn to be warriors?

they're often credit with the first working democracy and if they had fell then the idea of democracy might have died with them.

The big problem I have with the Founding Fathers is how people will say they beleived something, as if the Founding Fathers were a single hive mind, who achieved absolute consensus on how everything ought to be (and of course their conclusions just happen to line up exactly with the speaker).

They were a diverse group of people with a diverse group of beliefs. They didn't reach absolute consensus on the best form of government, but had difference arguments gain political ascendancy at different times. They were the politicians of the day.