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Yes I know I know, everyone who has ever looked at a rhino and said "I want to assault out of that" has made ideas of making an assault chassis for the Rhino. I for one, would love to see it happen. BUT, I am torn to what I would rather see.
a) Most likely approach to Put an assault ramp on the Rhino. Simple, and seems very Space Marine-y. It would probably cost more than the standard Rhino/Razor. Maybe weighing in the C:SM book at 50-70 (maybe 80) points.
or
b) Open Topped Rhino. It seems more bad ass. I can see a horde of Angry Marines zooming by in open topped Rhinos to get to the fray. It seems different to the Space Marine approach, but it seems to be more effective to me. Sure, it gets the +1 on the damage chart, but as an open top, everyone can shoot out of it, you can assault out of it, and you can look cool doing it. It probably wouldn't be as expensive as the other approach to an assault chassis Rhino, but the other seems much more survivable.

Of the two ideas, which would you rather see? Or, Do you have another approach to the assault chassis for Rhinos?

Rhinos used to be opentopped. You used to be able to assault out of them. I'd put open-topped rhinos at 55 points, though with the advent of 6th edition and what it holds for transports in general, I'll reserve judgement on future viability.

This option would need to cost +100 points.

Any justification on that DE? Or is this another one of your "CHANGE IS BAD NO ONE CHANGE PLS" things?

Assault ramp won't work. Drivers are in the front.
Open top it.

-Matt

The justification for making a major points increase would most likely be because assault delivery is not what a Rhino is supposed to do. It is a simple transport, that's it.

And the open-topped rhino was actually a price you had to pay for using the fire point. Conceivably, it was because the passengers opened the roof to fire. It didn't affect the riders if the shooters were wearing power armour, so it mainly screwed Sisters.

The Rhino is fine as it is. I wouldn't mind the open topped of fired from option from 3rd edition.

I think the world eaters have an open topped on in the tempus fugitives "age of the emperor" expansion. Seems like their sort of thing.

Assault ramp would be OTT on a Rhino IMO.

If you want marines to assault out, work in some sort of disadvantage to even it out (ie: open topped).

It would need a decent poitns increase though. With normal marines it might not make a huge difference - but BA with fast, open topped rhinos? Potentially nasty.

DarknessEternal wrote:This option would need to cost +100 points.

Yeah, seeing how Orks pay 90pts(+upgrades) for an AV14/12/10 Open topped transport with room for 20 models than certainly Marines must pay more than that for a 11/11/10 transport....No one would ever consider paying +100pts for an opentopped Rhino

Praxiss wrote:Assault ramp would be OTT on a Rhino IMO.

If you want marines to assault out, work in some sort of disadvantage to even it out (ie: open topped).

It would need a decent poitns increase though. With normal marines it might not make a huge difference - but BA with fast, open topped rhinos? Potentially nasty.

Not as nasty as incubi with a haemonc in a raider... I don't see why it can't be an option, tbh.

Because not all armies deserve every option that every other army has.

chrisrawr wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Assault ramp would be OTT on a Rhino IMO.

If you want marines to assault out, work in some sort of disadvantage to even it out (ie: open topped).

It would need a decent poitns increase though. With normal marines it might not make a huge difference - but BA with fast, open topped rhinos? Potentially nasty.

Not as nasty as incubi with a haemonc in a raider... I don't see why it can't be an option, tbh.

Because the DE are supposed to be a lighter army that hits you hard and fast. Space Marines have the armour and toughness to weather a bit of fire before they charge in. DE, on the whole, dont.

Rrrrrrriiiiiiiight so you're saying that, because of unrelated x and y, z shouldn't happen?

Haemonc+Incubi are similar to Sangpriest+Guard - Only they get a 20+D6" assault move instead of an 18" one. Even assuming anything similar in power/cost (BA's doom and gloom marines come the closest I think, at a rhino per model with power weapons) there's nothing 'scary' that can take rhinos in marine codecies (OH NO ASSAULT MARINES THEY GET 3 ATTACKS ON THE CHARGE WITH A SINGLE FISTING SERGEANT!). Termies simply don't fit in Rhinos, and everything else is too expensive to rhino-assault spam.

What I'm trying to say here is: For 200 points, you get a unit that destroys anything that'll come out of an assault rhino. Every time. Without fail. Therefore costing a basic tac or assmarine unit + open-topped assault rhino at around 150-175 (60-75 points for regular-speed OT AV11) is not that much of a big deal; The only time I can see any tables being flipped is if somehow you deploy all of them just outside of 18" during dawn of war, manage to move everyone up, and then blow up a bunch of things with meltabombs/fists/combimeltas/really good rolls. And I'm honestly perfectly fine with my opponent spending ~1000 points on 6 5man marinesquads in open topped transpoppers.

No OT for loyalists

However, chaos could really use one

IIRC Justdave's fandex uses OT Rhinos, great for ferrying beserkers and the like! Maybe if you dropped some of the side armor, that too can make it a bit more fair. Compared to raiders/venoms, rhinos dont have the extra tools or speed to survive too much

kenshin620 wrote:IIRC Justdave's fandex uses OT Rhinos, great for ferrying beserkers and the like! Maybe if you dropped some of the side armor, that too can make it a bit more fair. Compared to raiders/venoms, rhinos dont have the extra tools or speed to survive too much

Correct.
In my Chaos 'dex, Rhinos can be made open-topped for 15pts.

As HawaiiMatt stated, giving Rhinos an assault ramp "won't work" as the driver's are at the front of the vehicle.
Whereas, I don't feel Open-topped really suits the loyalist Marines, like it would Chaos, Orks or Deldar for example...

Furthermore, few Loyalist units really would want an assault/open-topped Rhino IMHO, except for Black Templars and Wolves.
I do however feel that Chaos would benefit more from an open-topped Rhino, whilst I also believe it would suit them much more. In my 'dex I added this bit of fluff to try and explain my viewpoint/justify the inclusion of open-topped:

"An anomaly has been noticed with the Traitor Astartes deployment of Rhino Armoured Personnel Carriers; a notable number appear to be open-topped, with the upper-section of the Rhino removed.
Initially it was assumed this was due to refitting and repairs; that the Heretics were getting desperate after millennia of warfare and are being forced to salvage armour plating from less vital areas to cover battle damage and implement repairs.
However, based on recent examination and post-conflict salvage it has become evident that in-fact firing steps having been fitted alongside the removal of the roof. These modifications allow Traitor Astartes to more quickly and brutally engage Imperial forces, as Traitor Space Marines fire from the Rhino with impunity, or assault troops vault over the sides of the Rhino to engage in close combat."

Probably the open-topped variant, if only because if I've got a horde of screaming Berzerkers that can assault after disembarking from their vehicles zooming at me I'd much rather they be slightly easier to destroy than a normal rhino-rush.

Just Dave wrote:
Furthermore, few Loyalist units really would want an assault/open-topped Rhino IMHO, except for Black Templars and Wolves.

They would all want open topped Rhinos, more so than assault vehicle Rhinos. Open topped is unlimited fire points.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
Furthermore, few Loyalist units really would want an assault/open-topped Rhino IMHO, except for Black Templars and Wolves.

They would all want open topped Rhinos, more so than assault vehicle Rhinos. Open topped is unlimited fire points.

...

ShottyScotty wrote:Yes I know I know, everyone who has ever looked at a rhino and said "I want to assault out of that" has made ideas of making an assault chassis for the Rhino. I for one, would love to see it happen.

Basically, I was trying to refer to the topic/notion of Assault Rhinos.

Just Dave wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
Furthermore, few Loyalist units really would want an assault/open-topped Rhino IMHO, except for Black Templars and Wolves.

They would all want open topped Rhinos, more so than assault vehicle Rhinos. Open topped is unlimited fire points.

...

What don't you understand about what was said?

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Just Dave wrote:
Furthermore, few Loyalist units really would want an assault/open-topped Rhino IMHO, except for Black Templars and Wolves.

They would all want open topped Rhinos, more so than assault vehicle Rhinos. Open topped is unlimited fire points.

...

What don't you understand about what was said?

What don't you understand about my post? As I said - after quoting the OP for reference - I was referring to Rhinos in regards to the thread subject; as an assault vehicle.

Just Dave wrote:
Furthermore, few Loyalist units really would want an assault/open-topped Rhino

Says open-toped right in there as something loyalist marines would not want.

I voted for the open top variant. If you think along the lines of the other main Imperium transport, the Chimera, you have the open topped version, the Salamander. An open topped, fast scout vehicle. I don't know why a rhino varient would not be possible, but, the Salamander doesn't currently have rules in the IG codex.

I would say open topped as the Rhino chassis really isnt desighned to take an assault ramp.

However the intial thought that occured to me of a big swivel mounted boarding ramp atop the Rhino is an extremely amusing one.......

Oh and BTW it was the chimeras that were open topped when the top hatch was used in the 3rd ed era imperial armour books.

tedurur wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:This option would need to cost +100 points.

Yeah, seeing how Orks pay 90pts(+upgrades) for an AV14/12/10 Open topped transport with room for 20 models than certainly Marines must pay more than that for a 11/11/10 transport....No one would ever consider paying +100pts for an opentopped Rhino

Oh I can take that on my troops? Let me just... no wait... its a heavy support choice.

That being said, an Elite/FA/HS option rhino with assault ramps could be good. Any unit that requires another unit of a separate FOC slot to work is a pretty big penalty. I'd say maybe 80 for an assault rhino.

Also, having it opened top makes no sense and it'd probably end up being used as a make-shift bunker for ranged shooting than assaulting.

@Terranarc you must not play orks much, as you can take this thing called a WARBOSS and then he makes these guys called NOBS into troops choices. NOBS can take Battle Wagons as a dedicated transport. If you take two warbosses, and then take 4(edit: 2 OH NO) nobs as troops, and then take 3 elites nob squads, and then take 3 battle wagons you get TEN! (edit: EIGHT! OH NO!) TEN (edit: EIGHT! OH NO!) BATTLE WAGONS! Where is your flippancy now?

Edit: Flippancy still in place. He Also apparently missed the parts explaining where it was explained why assault ramps wouldn't work.

chrisrawr wrote:@Terranarc you must not play orks much, as you can take this thing called a WARBOSS and then he makes these guys called NOBS into troops choices. NOBS can take Battle Wagons as a dedicated transport. If you take two warbosses, and then take 4 nobs as troops, and then take 3 elites nob squads, and then take 3 battle wagons you get TEN! TEN BATTLE WAGONS! Where is your flippancy now?

No, I play orks. And actually read the codex so while it may be too late to stop you from showing everyone your learning disabilities, I can at least correct you/offer some advice so other people won't be mislead.
1) You cannot take 4 nobs as troops. Look on page 97 and read (do try it at least once, yes?) what a warboss permits to be taken as troops.
2) A warboss takes up an invaluable HQ slot for orks. I know you don't play orks or have read the codex but trust me, Ork HQ slots are very valuable, not something to be squandered on a warboss for the sole purpose of taking a battlewagon.
3) The maximum number of battlewagons you can take as an Ork player following normal FoC is 8. I can argue the merits, or rather the lack of, for taking 8 battlewagons but this isn't the thread to do it and I don't feel like educating you to be honest.

1) OH NO I WAS OFF BY 2 INSTEAD OF IGNORING 5.

2) Bigmek WB, Double Bigmek, Double Warboss (including Ghaz), or double Weirdboy. I don't see how this is invaluable, as it's one of 4 'competitive' choices.

3) See 1. Also, Battleroller and Nob Riders (WB/Mek, 2WB) are still the two most commonly played and countermeta'd lists for Orks in tournies.