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Obviously this is jumping the gun, but I'm tired of forcing Excel to do something it doesn't want to. So figured I'd take a shot at looking at Eldar based off the rumors I've seen. As an eldar player I can't say I'm particular happy. Eldar getting hit with some significant nerfs and only gaining a couple items. That being said I expect to see a lot more eldar on the table or more specifically, Eldrad and a unit of rangers in other armies.

Pros:

Rangers get to choose the targets for their AP1 shots

Hull points make killing Armour 12 vehicles fairly easy. We have a plethora of S6 weapons that can glance them easily alot. A unit of guided walkers will kill a a12 vehicle in 1 round

Some rumors seem to imply you can snapfire while turboboosting vehicles, depending on timing this could be useful.

Allies (sort of). A couple units of Grey hunters could really improve our durability, hydras could help with enemy plans, a rerolling showfield archon could provide a solid punch. However I think eldar will tend to be called upon as allies more than being the main force.

Warp spiders improve. They now get 3 attacks on the charge thanks to the impact hits.

Howling Banshees can be S4 if you can find enough of the old models with axes. Their mask ignores the unwieldy rule in round 1.

You can shoot and gain the extra movement from fleet.

Jink save for vehicles (and bikes?)

Wraithlords gan give up 1 attack to have a S20 smash attack (guessing capped at 10 so really only affects the avatar)

Meltaguns get +2 AP (do fire dragons need it?)


Cons:

Hull points make holofields worthless.

Everyone (almost) can get runes of warding

We lose our speed advantage, fleet goes from D6 extra to rerolling a D6. Not sure the math but this an inch or two difference.

Everyone gets 6+ save vs doom

Jink save not as good as turbosave

3+ to hit vehicles in combat regardless of speed moved

Everyone else can throw grenedes (ok we can to but few units have grenedes)

Everyone gains move and fire rapid fire full distance

Cover saves reduced to 5+

Overwatch hurts our assaulting units as they are only T3

Everyone else gets access to a bunch of new psychic powers

Flyers, unless you play with Forgeworld we have no anti-aircraft weapons

Power weapons are AP 3, so the only things that punch threw termintor armour are fire dragons and scorpion claws

Clearly this mostly speculation at this point but what do see in the Eldar's future?

As an Eldar player the only allies I will ever bring will be dark eldar. Grey Hunters and IG can suck it Im not bringing them.

As far as your actual post you made alot of valid points that I havent really thought of. Your compleatly right about holo fields. Generals of imperium armies getting runes of warding is an absolute load of crap, thats such a joke. You basically take the best part of eldar and give it to already overpowered armies. GW can suck it.

3+ to hit vehicles in close combat regardless of speed moved? Where did you hear that? If that is in fact true MechDar is dead.

One thing that will be interesting is Dark Eldar Allies, if we can bring alot of good units that should be alot of fun.

I wrote an article on this very subject this morning. http://www.3forint.com/2012/06/eldar-in-6th-edition-ray-of-hope.html

I think Footdar is going to see a huge increase in players. With all the S6 it can pump out and the lowered durability and points effectiveness of our own vehicles, it sounds like a tempting way to go. Although, we won't really know for sure until we've played with the new rules, so we'll see.

Yep, looks like you'll have Commorite Darkies hanging out in your threads now.

We Elves have got to stick together this edition.

So what do you think; will the errata allow Fortune to be cast on DE units?

Changes to Seer council configuration?

Smitty- I had to put the good ally options in my post even though I agree they shouldn't be taken often. Frankly neither should the dark eldar unless you have a bunch of harlequins. But a corsair style list will be viable, but pribably better with DE as base.

As for the imperium getting runes, don't worry I'm sure the Faq will change them so the only have a 6" range (not a rumor, just bitter)

Dok- If you can assault out of vehicles that is a plus, I haven't seen that rumor. Swooping hawks do get better (I forgot to put that on) however their intercept power is now useless as you never need more than a 3+ to hit. Although if they change the power to allow swooping hawks to hit flyers that would be a major buff. I also forgot about the witchblade change which is fairly major for some builds.

Mandolor- Footdar aren't shafted like mechdar but still take some fairly major hits as a result of lower cover, snapfire hurts more than it helps I think and most importantly I think you will see a lot more foot based lists resulting in meta more geared to killing foot troops

Dok wrote:I wrote an article on this very subject this morning. http://www.3forint.com/2012/06/eldar-in-6th-edition-ray-of-hope.html

There are a few excellent points here I would like to +1

Dok wrote:Secondly, I want to talk about the benefits that will affect Eldar players who play serpent spam or something similar. Jetbikes/skimmers now have a 5+ cover if they move at all. It’s called Jink (My early edition Dark Angels Brethren may remember this fondly). This is a pretty excellent survivability addition to the already excellent wave serpent. Also, we basically get flickerfields for free

This is a very nice upgrade added to wave serpents for basically free.

Dok wrote:While hull points hurt serpents, this increases their durability by 33%.
By far, the most interesting change to vehicles (imo) is the ability to move 6”, disembark your troops (Banshees), and then still be able to move and Assault! Again, fleet has been a little nerfed, but you have a threat range of 14-24” out of a serpent

This is also very nice. Basically it gives all Eldar serpents assault ramps -- which is a very nice perk! You can use it to assault with your warlocks or your banshees. While banshees will now bounce off terminators, they can clobber the hell out of a lot of other targets. As mentioned, you an replace them all with power axes for STR 4 smash factor -- making them much more in line with DCAs.

Dok wrote:Pathfinders (any models with sniper weapons?) select their targets on a 6, also they will be ap1

Pathfinders get either AP1 or Rending often. The ability to select their targets mean you can quickly neutralize heavy/special weapons or special characters such as IG commissars.

Here are some other points.
* DE and Eldar have some nice synergy. Autoarchs and webway portals, for example. DE venoms combined with fire dragons.

* Moving 12" and firing 2 weapons for serpents mean that serpents are getting 7 STR 6 shots a turn. Since you now can burn down hull points, thats more of a threat than it used to be.

* If what I read is correct, all skimmers can move 30" -- which means your getting star engines for free.

From what I've read online (don't have the book yet), it actually appears more the Avengers and Dragons are useful.

I keep looking at 10 Warp Spiders (w/ Exarch and Powerblades) w/ Autarch (Warp Jump Generator, Powerweapon, Manditblaser, Power Wpn). If you cast Doom on whatever unit they plan to attack, they are extremely useful.

I'm not clear how rending works now, but I've read that is has gone back to 4th edition; roll a '6' to hit and it autowounds and is AP2. If this is the case, Harlies can be a fantastic counterassault unit.

How do Witchblades work now? I read AP3 and S7-this would really make a Seer Council even more useful; still can tarpit, but actually do some damage in return.

S6 shooting appears to be even more effective against armor 11 and 12. With only 2-3 hull points, we can effectively glance vehicles to death. I can fully expect 3 War Walkers w/ Scatterlasers to pop Rhinos/Chimera chasis in a single volley.

With allies (not a fan at all of this), DE (brothers in arms) can create some absolutely crazy combos: Fortuned Shadowfields sitting in Seer Councils/Wraithguard units; Fortuned Beastmaster squads (would an Avatar make them Fearless.....?)

On one hand, I really don't like the allies system. On the other hand, it opens up a whole new batch of Jes Goodwin designed models (Dark Eldar, in my case).

AP 3 witchblades would be cool, the rumors I've seen have them as poisoned (2+) S3, AP4 2D6 vs vehicles. As someone pointed out Fortune/Guide only works on Eldar units (unless FAQ'ed). So maybe you won't see them everywhere. (who am I kidding, you'll see them with Doom and runes, you just might not see Eldrad everywhere.

On a more positive note, what units that don't see much play do you think will get on the board more often? I'm definitely thinking Hawks and Spiders, maybe Dark Reapers too? If people do indeed start taking less transports then they become so much deadlier vs MEQ.

I think you see a lot more 2 HQ eldar armies out there and all of them have benefits, including the phoenix lords now that power weapons are AP3.

Hawks and Spiders will see more table tops but are still too expensive. They are better and if intercept is change to work vs flyers, they will be a near mandatory requirement. Spiders were underrated before and this will get more people trying them out.

Banshees and Scorpions coming out of an allied webway portal could be fun

Nightspinners are better.

I still don't see a place for guardians (any variety), shining spears or vypers.

That's because Guardians, Shinign Spears and Vypers need to be updated terribly. The changes are quick and easy IMHO, but they need it.

Guardians - give them 18" shuriken catapults... come on.. or a +1 BS on the platform?

Shining Spears - Inv save? or more importantly... a pistol! they have an awesome one handed cc weapon but no pistol... LAME

Vypers - Just plain too expensive... but maybe not with these new skimmer rules and such. scout or outflanking would be awesome though...


Personally I'm worried about anti-TEQ - I mean Banshees have been THE TEQ slayer for the Eldar since their invention, now they are really effective MEQ killers... So now we shoot Termies... or charge them with Harlequins (if rending is ap2)

Gangrel767 wrote:
Personally I'm worried about anti-TEQ - I mean Banshees have been THE TEQ slayer for the Eldar since their invention, now they are really effective MEQ killers... So now we shoot Termies... or charge them with Harlequins (if rending is ap2)

Agreed. We need Starcannons to drop in points a little, that'd be a start

With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

Depending on how artillery rules have been changed, batteries of dirt-cheap shadow weaver shots, with the whole template now str6 against vehicles, might become a decent choice again.

Even though they're expensive, starcannons might become the go-to gun again for taking down terminators.

steinerp wrote:Dok- If you can assault out of vehicles that is a plus, I haven't seen that rumor. Swooping hawks do get better (I forgot to put that on) however their intercept power is now useless as you never need more than a 3+ to hit. Although if they change the power to allow swooping hawks to hit flyers that would be a major buff. I also forgot about the witchblade change which is fairly major for some builds.

You are correct sir. I had missed the ws1 on vehicles thing. I would imagine JI would be able to assault flyers, but I haven't heard anything specific to that. The witchblade change is sad. But, a council with multiple destructors will be a very scary thing to charge.

labmouse42 wrote:There are a few excellent points here I would like to +1

Thanks!

It does look like Harlequins are going to be must haves, now with rending

I will get to use my Blackmoor pattern war walkers again.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/124100.page

Warp Spiders can now kill vehicles.

The wave serpent assault army might be back.

DE add great synergy.

labmouse42 wrote:
By far, the most interesting change to vehicles (imo) is the ability to move 6”, disembark your troops (Banshees), and then still be able to move and Assault! Again, fleet has been a little nerfed, but you have a threat range of 14-24” out of a serpent. This is also very nice. Basically it gives all Eldar serpents assault ramps -- which is a very nice perk! You can use it to assault with your warlocks or your banshees. While banshees will now bounce off terminators, they can clobber the hell out of a lot of other targets. As mentioned, you an replace them all with power axes for STR 4 smash factor -- making them much more in line with DCAs.

you cannot assault after you get out of a transport. So you can move 6", disembark 6" but then you cannot assault. Lame and poorly worded.


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Flavius Infernus wrote:With overwatch, probably nobody's going to want to charge a unit of 20 guardians.

no one with a 5+ save. Unless you get the shoot at normal BS psykic power 20 guardians are going to get ~6.8 hits ~3.4 and ~1.1 dead Meq.

Flavius Infernus wrote:
If it's true that AP2 adds +1 to the vehicle damage table, Wraithcannons, brightlances and pulse lasers (and starcannons) all get an antitank bonus.

the new damage talbe is more favorable, only destroying a vehicle on a 6 instead of a 5 or 6 so bright lances are just as effective(or ineffective) as they use to be.

People are greatly overestimating how good overwatch is.

Blackmoor wrote:People are greatly overestimating how good overwatch is.

Agreed. So agreed.

+1 as well especially since Eldar typically won't have aceess to the full BS power unless they run two farseers

Warlocks won't be providing it?

The rumor thread says Dangerous Terrain now allows armor saves. That's a knock against Night Spinner.

If fast vehicles can move 12" and fire 2 guns at full BS, then the Falcon can be used as a gunboat. For 130 points you can get a scatter laser and the pulse laser.
If you do not want to have DE allies in a fragile AV 10 vehicle, you can stick them in these falcons giving them better protection.

Edit : I heard someone say allies cannot ride in transports. Not sure if they applies to falcons. If it does -- well poop.

Lucre- nope, just farseers from what I've seen

Quark- Haven't seen that, if true nightspinner is still probably better overall but not by as much

Also one rumor I saw from someone with a book is that you can now only keep 1/2 army in reserve, this is a big problem as shortening the game was key to some builds

labmouse42 wrote:If fast vehicles can move 12" and fire 2 guns at full BS, then the Falcon can be used as a gunboat. For 130 points you can get a scatter laser and the pulse laser.
If you do not want to have DE allies in a fragile AV 10 vehicle, you can stick them in these falcons giving them better protection.

Edit : I heard someone say allies cannot ride in transports. Not sure if they applies to falcons. If it does -- well poop.

depends on what kind of ally i think


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steinerp wrote:+1 as well especially since Eldar typically won't have aceess to the full BS power unless they run two farseers

warlocks have powers. run lots of them in a council and have them swap their powers. The full BS power is random though, you have to roll a 1 on the divination chart.

Exergy, are you sure the white dwarf only included farseers

steinerp wrote:Exergy, are you sure the white dwarf only included farseers

I am not, I had the book in hand yesterday and was reading it over, but I am not really use to psykers

steinerp wrote:Exergy, are you sure the white dwarf only included farseers

Yes

Dark reapers got a marginal buff due to snapshotting and cover saves being decreased! Still expensive, but worth noting.