Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 streetsamurai wrote:
I know I sound like an old disk with that, but asmuch as I like the quality of newcromunda minis, it's a fragging shame that there is only 1 sprue per gang. Could have added so much more options and customisation if they made 2

I suspect being able to pitch "less investment in molds, only need to run one machine set for one sprue, and we can sell them resin upgrade packs" was how an N17 revival got greenlit in the first place. A proper 2-sprue kit would obviously bet better, but if it's a choice between a 1-sprue kit and nothing I'll take the 1-sprue.

Can't deny that the Cawdor one is a bit less appealing though given the big, very unique parts like the gang leader's icon-weapon which will be "wasted" sprue space if you decide to convert and individualise your gang.

And lets be honest, how else are they going to shift expensive resin weapon sprues after the fact?

Your opinions don't matter much, you'd still buy it because it's better than nothing.

Chopstick wrote:
Your opinions don't matter much...

Gee. Thanks.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Four polearms per sprue is what's taking up a lot of space. They also look super spindly.

Yup. OTOH, best they get that out of the way on the plastic sprue, I wouldn't want that sort of weapon in resin, not on something that has to go in a transport case of any sort certainly.

Two sprues per gang...drool. They could've given us exploding rats on a second sprue! Or a remwke of the burning rat from the Island of Blood warpflamer. And lots of chainswords. Or a sprue with only gun-halberds, because I *really* dig those

But still, a second sprue would allow so many small characterful additions like the Bretonnian snail or Idoneth critters. Just horribly mutated by toxic waste.

Did anyone notice how Scenarios, deployment, reinforcements and Battlefield setup has changed with the new Leader's accessories being released with the new cawdor stuff? Will this overwrite the old stuff in Gang War 1?

Feels like we're gonna pay for patches as DLCs. I'm happy they changed these things (setup was particularly clunky), but it's been 9 months since they were released, and they demand extra money for it. I think they could have done the same with a free pdf a couple of months after GW1. And I suspect these changes will go unnoticed for a lot of players who don't purchase every single small product.

I've given up on N17, frankly. Loved the Fluff, I like skirmish, build a gang games, it had a lot of pluses for me. Then the problems with rules came up, but I still picked up the gangs for a painting project. Liked Escher and Goliath, though the repeated sprues was disappointing, but I hated painting the Van Saar, and my remaining motivation fizzled out from there - I just don't feel like Necromunda as it stands now is worth doing anything towards.
And with GW bringing out Titanicus and the new LOTR, and Kill Team being the new hotness, I just don't think anything is going to change in a significant enough way to make me want to get involved anymore. I know there will be more stuff, yes, but I don't feel like GW is looking to make N17 big - I think the Crappy rules and slow, "buying a game through an unknown number of installments" system has meant a lot of people haven't bothered to invest at all, and frankly, I'm completely soured on the whole experience.

It's such a shame, because it could have been a really great game, but I really do think that GW has screwed up on this one, and I don't think anything beyond a reset will fix it.

The rules themselves are good fun - just needs the almanac to get everything together and fix the sloppiness.

Huh, my group are gearing up for another campaign after the summer now - we ran a great one this spring, and now everyone is pretty excited to get going again with (some) new gangs, and new additions for us who plan to continue running our existing ones.

Sure, the rules and model releases are a bit on the slow side, but I think they're doing the best they can with the resources they have - judging from the interviews on Twitch, they could in theory have waited 18 months and released all the gangs at once, but then we would have had to wait to play the game for another year and a half, and that would have been quite a high risk investment for GW (which probably would have meant it wouldn't have been made in the first place).

They only have one dedicated rules writer and one sculptor (they had to borrow a guy from the LotR team to do the Eschers in the start box). It's not meant to be a "major" game, but I'm quite alright with that - I don't have unlimited hobby time and between Necromunda, 40K and now also Kill Team, there are only so many hours a week I can spend on each (and to be honest, I'm not very impressed with the Kill Team rules, in general Necromunda is in my experience so far more fun).

Yes, this game is Early Access, with large parts of the early rules replaced an no longer valid (which includeds most of the core rulebook and GW1). I don't think there's just one guy making the rules, cause there is/was a largeg amount of inconsistencies. Unless that one guy is schizzo.

Now is the best time so far to play Necromunda, it's full of content and fun (more than ever before!).

How much of the core rulebook has been invalidated?

A large section of the core book has been irrelevant since GW1, gangs have different equipment restriction, and can only choose a few skill, some of them you can't even take in GW1 (i.e Escher Gunfighter). All the price of the equipment/weapons are different.

Zone Mortalis is also not very fun when someone take a large blast weapon, which didn't exist at that time.

Baxx is exaggerating - the rules are not changed, only expanded. There is some confusion about the Underhive rules and the terrain rules in GW1, but those are different game modes, not a rules change. The only things that have really changed are some weapon stats and traits. But all of that is covered by the big collected market in GW3 anyway, so why look in the base rules for that?

Yes and there're no Underhive mode for any other gang. Or people would prefer to fight Escher gang with very cheap weapons.

Underhive mode?

The mode in the core rules. Or version if you like It is only defined for Escher and Goliath, i.e. no other gangs, no juves, very few skills and weapons, different costs,stats, skills, senarios. Aka the demo version.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Baxx is exaggerating - the rules are not changed, only expanded. There is some confusion about the Underhive rules and the terrain rules in GW1, but those are different game modes, not a rules change. The only things that have really changed are some weapon stats and traits. But all of that is covered by the big collected market in GW3 anyway, so why look in the base rules for that?

The rules have changed and loads of the early rules are now replaced by newer releases.

Large parts of Underhive core rules were replaced at launch. Later, large parts of GW1 have been changed/expanded/replaced too. I'm not refering to Zone Mortalis / Sector Mechanics at all. I'm refering to things like what fighters you can take, what weapons/wargear each fighter can take, what the weapon stats/traits are, how much weapons cost, what their rarity is, how core scenario mechanics work, scenario rewards and more. Not just weapon costs and traits as you imply.

If you want to start an Escher or Goliath gang, you're not going to find the correct information in GW1. Same with the scenarios.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Underhive mode?

He means Skirmish, where you build a gang and have a small scale battle with no experience and minimal skills, much like 40k or even Kill Team.
Skirmish is actually being updated to include the other gangs and also allow for purchasing skills in GW4 but that will, of course , mean that even more of the RB has been “invalidated” rather than being exactly what they asked for…

Are you guys complaining that Necromunda is constantly growing and updating, or are you complaining that you have to buy the periodical-like updates, or both? What's your "perfect Necromunda" that this edition isn't living up to?

(I haven't played it, but I've been curious for a while, and now that I got some terrain from Kill Team, I was thinking about trying it out - but there's a weirdly negative vibe around the Gang War releases, and I'm curious as to why. Outside of GW2, it appears that they've been substantial expansions)

 Sqorgar wrote:
Are you guys complaining that Necromunda is constantly growing and updating, or are you complaining that you have to buy the periodical-like updates, or both? What's your "perfect Necromunda" that this edition isn't living up to?

Oh, that’s easy: “Perfect Necromunda” is to have had all of the gangs and rules and scenarios in the starter and still have had more stuff come out since then, but also it was all free and in one big book at the end of the year….

 Sqorgar wrote:
(I haven't played it, but I've been curious for a while, and now that I got some terrain from Kill Team, I was thinking about trying it out - but there's a weirdly negative vibe around the Gang War releases, and I'm curious as to why. Outside of GW2, it appears that they've been substantial expansions)

Gang War 2 was a bit lacklustre but otherwise the content has been great. I think the majority of the initial bad taste was from when GW1 was released alongside the skirmish game.
Considering the next one (released tomorrow) has not just a gang list but also a brand new campaign system (not a replacement or alteration of the original but a parallel alternative) as well as the base psyker rules and a bunch of new brutes for all the gangs, plus some minor stuff on top, I’d say they’re doing pretty well.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Are you guys complaining that Necromunda is constantly growing and updating, or are you complaining that you have to buy the periodical-like updates, or both? What's your "perfect Necromunda" that this edition isn't living up to?

Oh, that’s easy: “Perfect Necromunda” is to have had all of the gangs and rules and scenarios in the starter and still have had more stuff come out since then, but also it was all free and in one big book at the end of the year….

I probably should've said "reasonably perfect"...

Also, weren't rules for all the gangs available at the beginning? I thought GW released legacy gang rules.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Underhive mode?

He means Skirmish, where you build a gang and have a small scale battle with no experience and minimal skills, much like 40k or even Kill Team.
Skirmish is actually being updated to include the other gangs and also allow for purchasing skills in GW4 but that will, of course , mean that even more of the RB has been “invalidated” rather than being exactly what they asked for…

No dude, you can play Skirmish much better with all gangs and equipment using the Gang War system.

I mean, we could do a 1500 credits Skirmish game right now, playing Monster Hunt, Caravan or even the new Murder Cyborg scenario. You can have Van Saar, I can have chaos cultists. You could even bring pets or hangers-on!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sqorgar wrote:

Also, weren't rules for all the gangs available at the beginning? I thought GW released legacy gang rules.

Now that we got a complete armoury and trading post, yes those teams can work. Back then, it didn't work at all, cause they could have boltguns, but no info for the actual proper gangs to get boltguns. They were the only ones to have heavy weapon which was the heavy stubber, but it only had rapid fire 1, which made it much worse than a boltgun. And there were no proper trading post so nobody knew how to handle these things. Some of the leaders in that document had worse armour then the rest of the gangs.

It works now, but that's mainly thanks to GW3, now everyone can have heavy stubber or boltgun, and it's precisely defined how to acquire one, for what price & rarity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Are you guys complaining that Necromunda is constantly growing and updating, or are you complaining that you have to buy the periodical-like updates, or both? What's your "perfect Necromunda" that this edition isn't living up to?

(I haven't played it, but I've been curious for a while, and now that I got some terrain from Kill Team, I was thinking about trying it out - but there's a weirdly negative vibe around the Gang War releases, and I'm curious as to why. Outside of GW2, it appears that they've been substantial expansions)

I don't know, I like that the game changes, but it's all very exhausting to stay alert to all the various changes this game has. And while I do buy everything released in this game, I'm not usually complaining about the price of books for example. But when they sell a small pile of paper that updates and changes some mechanics in Gang War 1, well... I think they could do stuff like that for free as pdfs and preferably a lot sooner, maybe 1-2 months after GW1 came out, not 9 months later and at a price.

Baxx wrote:
I don't know, I like that the game changes, but it's all very exhausting to stay alert to all the various changes this game has. And while I do buy everything released in this game, I'm not usually complaining about the price of books for example. But when they sell a small pile of paper that updates and changes some mechanics in Gang War 1, well... I think they could do stuff like that for free as pdfs and preferably a lot sooner, maybe 1-2 months after GW1 came out, not 9 months later and at a price.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't collecting everything in the GW books make it easier to keep up with the game changes than a bunch of PDFs would? I mean, I know there is some Necro material in the White Dwarf magazines, but I don't remember which ones and I'd have go look up which issues they were in. It's easier to follow Gang War than if the updates were spread out all over the place.

Obviously, a yearly almanac would be great, but it's got to have something to collect first. It's like comic books. You can wait for the trades - more content, better value - but you'll be a year behind everybody else with a long gap between releases.

Expansions to the game are great. Things like pets, brutes, scenarios... I don't think anyone was complaining about them.

The problems are rules changes that literally replace whole sections of previous books, not because the game evolved but because the original printing was intentionally incomplete, and recurring pointless reprints of whole sections of previous books, whose purpose is clearly to pad out one book's worth of content into 6 books.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Expansions to the game are great. Things like pets, brutes, scenarios... I don't think anyone was complaining about them.

The problems are rules changes that literally replace whole sections of previous books, not because the game evolved but because the original printing was intentionally incomplete, and recurring pointless reprints of whole sections of previous books, whose purpose is clearly to pad out one book's worth of content into 6 books.

Exactly. Our group paused buying as soon as we read through GW2. Only one of us picked up GW3 and that's because he wanted to play Van Saar because he liked the models.
We're hoping they eventually do a all-in-one book. However, this drip feed rules delivery has dulled our group's enthusiasm and 40k/other stuff quickly fills up the attention that could have been Necromunda campaign time.

 Sqorgar wrote:

Baxx wrote:
I don't know, I like that the game changes, but it's all very exhausting to stay alert to all the various changes this game has. And while I do buy everything released in this game, I'm not usually complaining about the price of books for example. But when they sell a small pile of paper that updates and changes some mechanics in Gang War 1, well... I think they could do stuff like that for free as pdfs and preferably a lot sooner, maybe 1-2 months after GW1 came out, not 9 months later and at a price.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't collecting everything in the GW books make it easier to keep up with the game changes than a bunch of PDFs would? I mean, I know there is some Necro material in the White Dwarf magazines, but I don't remember which ones and I'd have go look up which issues they were in. It's easier to follow Gang War than if the updates were spread out all over the place.

Obviously, a yearly almanac would be great, but it's got to have something to collect first. It's like comic books. You can wait for the trades - more content, better value - but you'll be a year behind everybody else with a long gap between releases.

The "pile of paper" I refered to was actually the Leaders accessories pack. I don't think it's justified to put a price tag on something which basically is a fix to a book you already bought. The rules are all over: (parts of) core rulebooks, (parts of) GW1, GW2, GW3, GW4, Chaos (white dwarf) Genestealer cult (White Dwarf), White Dwarf (Bounty hunters), scenario 7 (white dwarf), scenario 8 (white dwarf), gangs of legend pdf. It's all good stuff, but you need to know which order it all came out in, and which rules has priority cause each single one of them is conflicting with the rest. Each new Gang War book has internal inconsistencies (webber on page x is different than webber on page y) in addition to inconsistencies between books (the same weapon in book X is different than in book Y).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

The problems are rules changes that literally replace whole sections of previous books, not because the game evolved but because the original printing was intentionally incomplete, and recurring pointless reprints of whole sections of previous books, whose purpose is clearly to pad out one book's worth of content into 6 books.

I agree, and you are able to explain it more clearly!

 lord_blackfang wrote:

The problems are rules changes that literally replace whole sections of previous books, not because the game evolved but because the original printing was intentionally incomplete, and recurring pointless reprints of whole sections of previous books, whose purpose is clearly to pad out one book's worth of content into 6 books.

I haven't read the Gang War books yet (interested in Necro, but yet to dive in), so I'm not sure what specifically you are talking about here. Is it the weapon/equipment lists? I can see how having a singular, updated collection in a single volume could be convenient. Or is it something else? How substantial is the material that is being replaced? Are we talking like half of a Gang War, or just a few pages? If I bought Gang War 4, for example, how much of Gang Wars 1-3 would be made redundant?

Large parts of core rulebook was outdated/replaced at launch:
-page 68-105 (armoury, Escher, Goliath, scenarios)

Some parts of Gang War 1 has been outdated with the latest releases:
-page 21-22 (pre-battle sequence)
-page 30-39 (trading post, armoury, weapon traits)
-page 40-43 (skills)
-page 47 (Goliath equipment list)
-page 51 (Escher equipment list)
-page 52-65 (scenarios)

Gang War 2 is mostly up to date, with some minor parts being updated/replaced:
-page 11 (Orlock equipment list)
-page 30-31 (armoury)
-page 33-39 (wargear, weapon traits)
-page 41-45 (skills)

Gang War 3 is the latest release and so is pretty much completely valid and still in use.

In total, there's a lot of pages you don't want to look at if you wanna play the game correctly, and if you by mistake would take information from these pages, it will certainly or probably be incorrect.

The only real downfall to the game is the release of all the gang war supplements. But it is game workshops model, they do it with codexs and everything else.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

The problems are rules changes that literally replace whole sections of previous books, not because the game evolved but because the original printing was intentionally incomplete, and recurring pointless reprints of whole sections of previous books, whose purpose is clearly to pad out one book's worth of content into 6 books.

I haven't read the Gang War books yet (interested in Necro, but yet to dive in), so I'm not sure what specifically you are talking about here. Is it the weapon/equipment lists? I can see how having a singular, updated collection in a single volume could be convenient. Or is it something else? How substantial is the material that is being replaced? Are we talking like half of a Gang War, or just a few pages? If I bought Gang War 4, for example, how much of Gang Wars 1-3 would be made redundant?

I posted a breakdown of GW2 when it came out, link below. GW3 was significantly better but IIRC reprinted all the weapons again. Haven't bought 4 yet.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751084.page