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TheDivineKira wrote:ok, i just want to throw this out there for all the people who are saying "OMG i cant wait till SATURDAY for this codex to be out!", the codex does NOT have a STREET DATE. That means it could arrive as soon as tomorrow or may already be out. My local game store CONFIRMED this, also i have also noticed that this is what happens. I got the grey knight codex before the official release date. so if your REALLY serious about knowing whats in the codex, then call ALL of your FLGS and ask if they have received there shipment yet, and if they have, ask if the necron codex was in the shipment. Also it would be greatly appreciated if you share any newly found knowledge with the rest of us. Thank you and have a great week!

My local store said the same. So they're expecting I'll have it Friday.
Though he mentioned that GW stores won't sell it until Saturday.

Emperor awfulness wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:I've been putting a lot of thought into what kinds of Overlords I'm going to use, and I've come to the following conclusions:
Any other ideas people have come up with for their Lords? It seems like sticking a lord in a unit of Praetorians might be effective if they have a Night Scythe to bring them closer. They could look for units like Assault Marines (or even PF terminators) to kill, though anything with high strength power weapons is going to be a gamble.

Units like Terminators are basically the perfect thing to fight with Ghost Arks - 10 Gauss Flayers inside, in rapid fire range, and 10 vehicle-mounted Flayers is 40 S4 shots. That's a lot of saves even at 2+. Keep the CCB Overlords popping transports and taking pot shots at heavy weapon wielders in cover.

It's not a terrible tactic for killing terminators if you can get the distances down to get a few rounds of shots in, but there are a couple things that make the plan less than desirable.

1. There are very few circumstances where you'll be able to aim both flayer arrays on the same unit with the Ark.

2. Given that, It'd actually take 3 full Arks of fire to take out a group of 5 terminators on average. 30 shots per Ark, 90 shots, 60 hit, 30 wound, 5 aren't saved.

A better tactic may be some Sword and Board lychgard, with a lord/orb for some resilience/punch.

Or, even, if you can count on running up against termies regularly, the Doomsday Ark could be effective.

Edit: Clarity.

GiantSlingshot wrote:

It's not a terrible tactic for killing terminators if you can get the distances down to get a few rounds of shots in, but there are a couple things that make the plan less than desirable.

1. There are very few circumstances where you'll be able to aim both flayer arrays on the same unit with the Ark.

2. Given that, It'd actually take 3 full Arks of fire to take out a group of 5 terminators on average. 30 shots per Ark, 90 shots, 60 hit, 30 wound, 5 aren't saved.

A better tactic may be some Sword and Board lychgard, with a lord/orb for some resilience/punch.

Or, even, if you can count on running up against termies regularly, the Doomsday Ark could be effective.

Edit: Clarity.

This.

I was suggesting that against things like Chaos Terminators or regular PF terminators (Deathwing?) the Praetorians might be pretty effective considering they have str5 ap2 guns they can fire before charging, then they can cleave the unit down before it attacks with their str 5 power weapons and 3 attacks (on the charge). Unfortunately this probably wouldn't work too well against SS/TH termies, which are much more common, but it looks like with the numbers people have been running Lychguard are a good counter to them.

Another thought, has anyone considered trying a unit of 5 Lords with warscythes and phase shifters instead of Lychguard? They're essentially the same, except they have 3++ saves and str 7. They cost some more but from what I've seen so far it doesn't appear to be much (55-60 each?)

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

GiantSlingshot wrote:

It's not a terrible tactic for killing terminators if you can get the distances down to get a few rounds of shots in, but there are a couple things that make the plan less than desirable.

1. There are very few circumstances where you'll be able to aim both flayer arrays on the same unit with the Ark.

2. Given that, It'd actually take 3 full Arks of fire to take out a group of 5 terminators on average. 30 shots per Ark, 90 shots, 60 hit, 30 wound, 5 aren't saved.

A better tactic may be some Sword and Board lychgard, with a lord/orb for some resilience/punch.

Or, even, if you can count on running up against termies regularly, the Doomsday Ark could be effective.

Edit: Clarity.

This.

I was suggesting that against things like Chaos Terminators or regular PF terminators (Deathwing?) the Praetorians might be pretty effective considering they have str5 ap2 guns they can fire before charging, then they can cleave the unit down before it attacks with their str 5 power weapons and 3 attacks (on the charge). Unfortunately this probably wouldn't work too well against SS/TH termies, which are much more common, but it looks like with the numbers people have been running Lychguard are a good counter to them.

Another thought, has anyone considered trying a unit of 5 Lords with warscythes and phase shifters instead of Lychguard? They're essentially the same, except they have 3++ saves and str 7. They cost some more but from what I've seen so far it doesn't appear to be much (55-60 each?)

While I think thr Overlord with 5 normal Lords would be an overall stronger unit then an Overlord with Lychguard, using up that Royal Court slot is taking a lot of potential support out of the rest of your army if you don't take another Overlord or opt for a Destroyer Lord as your 2nd HQ.

So, the Praetorians have a 6" gun that's really good.
Think it'd be worth it to sit them in shooting range and keep pounding a unit, while Nemesor Zahndrekh gives them Counter-Attack, and not assaulting, just harassing some unit until it is forced to charge you?
Perhaps even having Zahndrekh in the unit himself, so that when the opponent does charge you, his bodyguard warps in to help out? Or would his lack of jump pack just slow the unit down too much to be useful?

Or is it better to just shoot and then charge?

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:So, the Praetorians have a 6" gun that's really good.
Think it'd be worth it to sit them in shooting range and keep pounding a unit, while Nemesor Zahndrekh gives them Counter-Attack, and not assaulting, just harassing some unit until it is forced to charge you?
Perhaps even having Zahndrekh in the unit himself, so that when the opponent does charge you, his bodyguard warps in to help out? Or would his lack of jump pack just slow the unit down too much to be useful?

Or is it better to just shoot and then charge?

I have no idea what you just said, it sounds like half of it is sarcastic and half isn't...

Praetorians are obviously not meant to sit back, unless you're trying to use them as only a counter-assault unit. Even then, Zahndrekh wouldn't really benefit them at all, and they'd be easy for enemies to stay away from. They're much better sitting inside of a transport (if they're able to go into Night Scythes) and using that to get across the battlefield quickly before hopping out to tear stuff apart.

One thing I just thought of that would be quite powerful with these guys is that if they manage to get across the table and charge out of the transport, they could easily be pulled back by a monolith if they're in trouble or need to rescue some warriors. They're not the toughest or the strongest unit, but considering their str and toughness of 5 with lots of power weapons they're nothing to sneeze at either. It really comes down to whether or not they can be put in Night Scythes.

I plan to use Zhandrekh as my Lord. I have a mate who I usually play who loves to deepstrike palidans in with Draigo. My question is does anyone have any ideas atm, of what could be done to counter this unit of 6 (5 palidans and draigo) other than hoping that your large blast from the doomsday cannon doesnt scatter.

Mustakha the Undying wrote:I have no idea what you just said, it sounds like half of it is sarcastic and half isn't...

None of it was.
I frequently play a Space Wolf player, and due to all the Counterattack in his army, he'll often shoot with them while within assault range and not assault, letting the opponent come to him. Saw the short-range guns and availability of Counterattack and considered it, asking for the opinions of others. Though I suppose it matters more when you have Rapid Fire weapons.

I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...

Lets hope they don't get tank shocking wargear... I think CC Crons seems cool but will never be competitive, you need to poor precious points into expensive and limited numbered elites which is not a good plan... Just shoot them, I think the DD canon seriously was Mat Wards attempt to fix the Paladin spam lists he created... I mean 72" range st9 ap1 Large blast in a book that has a character that brings with him night fight that he can switch off like a lamp!!! Oh your going first? Night Fight.... Ok lets turn the lights on and nuke your terminators!

The Metal Tide wrote:I plan to use Zhandrekh as my Lord. I have a mate who I usually play who loves to deepstrike palidans in with Draigo. My question is does anyone have any ideas atm, of what could be done to counter this unit of 6 (5 palidans and draigo) other than hoping that your large blast from the doomsday cannon doesnt scatter.

Counter with line of doom?

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

One thing I just thought of that would be quite powerful with these guys is that if they manage to get across the table and charge out of the transport, they could easily be pulled back by a monolith if they're in trouble or need to rescue some warriors. They're not the toughest or the strongest unit, but considering their str and toughness of 5 with lots of power weapons they're nothing to sneeze at either. It really comes down to whether or not they can be put in Night Scythes.

I'm pretty sure they can take a nightscythe as a transport and count as 2 models when doing so. So that means you can fit 7 into the nightscythes 15 model capacity.

Hammerhand, rad grenades and halberds will beat you every time... I think it is stupid that rad nades would do anything to the crons, but I feel like they lose this battle 9 times outta 10 AND cost more!

Red Corsair wrote:I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...

So who was it that first pondered the idea that there might be a chance for Necron mech lists?

I have no idea as I only read this page.... I would rather drop myself off a cliff then read 155 pages of speculation....

But I think it was obvious as every book with a transport uses MSU currently ; )

Red Corsair wrote:I only read this page.... I would rather drop myself off a cliff then read 155 pages of speculation....

Go read the first page, too. It's really all you need, other than a few more recent rumored changes in the last dozen pages.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:I have no idea what you just said, it sounds like half of it is sarcastic and half isn't...

None of it was.
I frequently play a Space Wolf player, and due to all the Counterattack in his army, he'll often shoot with them while within assault range and not assault, letting the opponent come to him. Saw the short-range guns and availability of Counterattack and considered it, asking for the opinions of others. Though I suppose it matters more when you have Rapid Fire weapons.

Rapid firing into something and letting it come to you as a marine is usually not the best idea though even with counter attack. Even though the number of attacks is 1 greater per model. (1 BP 2 Base 1 Charge compared to 2 rapid fire, 2 base, 1 counter attack)

The reason why has to be obvious to anyone with a grasp on tactics. You are now sitting in front of an army that can shoot you. And you are not denying the opponent their +1 attack for charging. Losing half your unit to enemy shooting because you wanted 1 extra attack is a horrible idea.

That being said! Letting people assault your necrons can work out in your favor as long as the opponent does not have grenades and you are in cover. Take a unit of preatorians, fire into a squad of genestealers. Let them charge you and you get to go first. Had you charged them you are likely to get killed before you even swing. But since the most common opponent will be marines you will want to just charge anyways. You will be going last either way and standing in front of them to let them get another round of shooting AND the charge is a horrible horrible idea.

Red Corsair wrote:I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...

The only way this will ever work is if you have 6 HS choices since each tank is one per FOC slot

I would agree, but I think the crons will take the shooting fairly easy with a high toughness/cover saves/ self repair protocal and if I am playing the necrons I am not going to bother wasting points on combat tricks when I am already paying points for superior shooting... I think the idea of not assaulting is to gain the additional shot from rapid firing which is a valid arguement because you are now hitting with the additional shot on a 3 rather then going last in combat and hiting on a 4, sure you run the risk of letting them assault but the idea is to eliminate or at least cripple them with your fire power... If you assault them, they go first and are essentially gaining hits on you in your own turn which makes up for their own shooting phase...

How about three units of destroyers with three heavies each and three doomsday cannons. Fill rest with troops and speed bumps. Hmm.. just realized I made a tau list.

The Metal Tide wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:I have feeling that there will be cookie cutter lists with 3 annihilation barges and 3 doomsday canons and then lots of MSU warriors on Archs for objectives since moving them means you need 6's to hit them in CC and they can fire off of them and they will be 13,13,10 until penetrated, that makes it the best troop transport to date IMHO.... Consider the fact that the Archs can target multiple enemy transports and damage them due to gauss and this gets out of hand fast...

The only way this will ever work is if you have 6 HS choices since each tank is one per FOC slot

I missed that, but that only affects the HS slot, the concept still works... Its the troops/archs that are the key anyway, a monolith, nightsith and dd canon works fine but good call!

Also I am not sure that this part of the rumor is true, at least concerning the annihilation barge considering Mat Ward says in the white dwarf bat rep he will be fielding at least 2 of them in his next battle.....

The Metal Tide wrote:I plan to use Zhandrekh as my Lord. I have a mate who I usually play who loves to deepstrike palidans in with Draigo. My question is does anyone have any ideas atm, of what could be done to counter this unit of 6 (5 palidans and draigo) other than hoping that your large blast from the doomsday cannon doesnt scatter.

Same way as any other army. Stay the feth away from CC, and pelt them with weapons > str 7 and < AP 3. Good choices are Doomsday Cannon, Eldritch Lance, Doomscythe's Death Ray, Heavy Gauss Cannons, Tachyon Arrows, and the C'tan Faux-Lascannon.

Good tactic would be to tag them with the Stalker's TL Heavy Cannon, and then go to town with whatever else you can bring to bear.

^ I agree, I might try tar pitting them with a C'tan or the stalker if things get desperate........

@The Metal Tide
Otherwise, if you MUST be in close combat with that deathstar, you would need a deathstar (or 2) of your own to counter.

Consider:

A 5 lord strong Royal Court-All with Phase Shifters and Warscythes
Another Overlord-With Orb, Scythe, and Phase Shifter.
(I would recommend Obyron, but he has no mention of an Invuln save, and as an IC he'd be torn to bits in CC with Paladins)
Use Zandrekh to get Furious Charge for the unit.

To ad injury to insult, you could also have a unit of wraiths /w whip coils attack at the same time.

With the furious charge, and the whip coils, you'd swing on the same initiative as the Halberd 'dins, and before any of the others GK's.
19 Str 8 power weapons is pretty dang scary. Even Vs paladins, ~9 hit, 8ish wound, and then depending on if they took the swords or halberds, between 4 and 6ish wounds get through, and because it's double the toughness, 4-5 dead paladins.


Draigo is gonna survive, but the other paladins would be smote mightily. The remaining fight vs draigo and possibly another paladin afterwords is going to be a meat grinder, but sheer number of attacks ought to do it.

It's not a cheap or elegant solution, but it would be effin' epic.

Sigvatr wrote:

yakface wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).

Whoops! My bad, I got that totally mixed up.

Yeah, the Solar Pulse cancels Night Fighting for the player turn its used, so if you use it on your own turn you will be losing Imotekh's lightning strikes for that turn.

Sometimes, you just hope you were wrong :(

Imotekh just got a lot less interesting.

Wording is going to be extremely important here.

If his rule is worded "while nightfighting is in play...lightning" then solar pulse will negate the lightning.
However, if it's more like "nightfighting. By the way...there's also lightning" then the solar pulse should just negate the nightfighting. In that case the lightning would still go off.

I doubt they're going to make a whole new rule just for this guy that includes all the verbage from nightfighting along with specific mention of things like spotlights and the solar pulse. They're more likely to say his ability uses nightfighting rules and randomly shoots lightning at stuff. In which case, no negation. Solar pulses don't specifically negate random lightning. Just nightfighting. The way I see it: a solar pulse is just the galaxy's largest spotlight. It doesn't make the clouds go away. Just lights everything up long enough for your gunners to pull their triggers.

So...game on.

Arandmoor wrote:

Sigvatr wrote:

yakface wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Yakface, I think the issue is the Lightning Strikes seem to take place during the Necron player's shooting phase, not their opponent's. If i'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that's how it appears to work in the White Dwarf Battle report (which is all the concrete evidence I have to work from at the moment).

Whoops! My bad, I got that totally mixed up.

Yeah, the Solar Pulse cancels Night Fighting for the player turn its used, so if you use it on your own turn you will be losing Imotekh's lightning strikes for that turn.

Sometimes, you just hope you were wrong :(

Imotekh just got a lot less interesting.

Wording is going to be extremely important here.

If his rule is worded "while nightfighting is in play...lightning" then solar pulse will negate the lightning.
However, if it's more like "nightfighting. By the way...there's also lightning" then the solar pulse should just negate the nightfighting. In that case the lightning would still go off.

I doubt they're going to make a whole new rule just for this guy that includes all the verbage from nightfighting along with specific mention of things like spotlights and the solar pulse. They're more likely to say his ability uses nightfighting rules and randomly shoots lightning at stuff. In which case, no negation. Solar pulses don't specifically negate random lightning. Just nightfighting. The way I see it: a solar pulse is just the galaxy's largest spotlight. It doesn't make the clouds go away. Just lights everything up long enough for your gunners to pull their triggers.

So...game on.

The wording on the pulse itself is also going to be real important. It could say, like in the current codex, that "Nightfighting rules Cease to Apply," which could mean no lighting. It could be reworded to say something like the necron units may ignore nightfighting restrictions, and then it'd be pretty kosher for the lightning bolts.

Agreed. Wording is going to be key.

GiantSlingshot wrote:@The Metal Tide
Otherwise, if you MUST be in close combat with that deathstar, you would need a deathstar (or 2) of your own to counter.

Consider:

A 5 lord strong Royal Court-All with Phase Shifters and Warscythes
Another Overlord-With Orb, Scythe, and Phase Shifter.
(I would recommend Obyron, but he has no mention of an Invuln save, and as an IC he'd be torn to bits in CC with Paladins)
Use Zandrekh to get Furious Charge for the unit.

To ad injury to insult, you could also have a unit of wraiths /w whip coils attack at the same time.

With the furious charge, and the whip coils, you'd swing on the same initiative as the Halberd 'dins, and before any of the others GK's.
19 Str 8 power weapons is pretty dang scary. Even Vs paladins, ~9 hit, 8ish wound, and then depending on if they took the swords or halberds, between 4 and 6ish wounds get through, and because it's double the toughness, 4-5 dead paladins.


Draigo is gonna survive, but the other paladins would be smote mightily. The remaining fight vs draigo and possibly another paladin afterwords is going to be a meat grinder, but sheer number of attacks ought to do it.

It's not a cheap or elegant solution, but it would be effin' epic.

Actually they cast sanctuary, you lose a guy and possibly fail the charge, they also use a warding staff and draigos shield for wound allocation and since you have an IC in that unit his attacks can be re-allocated, so when it's all said in down you might kill a few then they wipe your unit...fail.... there is no way you "grind" them down as you stated but good luck trying.

Sasori wrote:I love the new Direction Necrons are going in. And I'm an old Necron player.

Me too. I'm especially in love with the open-endedness we get for our personal fluff now. I used to get dirty looks when I started talking about my army and how they were "special" because..."you play necrons. They're supposed to be all the same!" or "deceiver or nightbringer. Pick one".

Now I get to have my phaeron be a loyal servant of the Deceiver who is secretly using the forces of his small-ish dynasty to reassemble the sundered C'tan so that he may consume everything. ...and nobody can say anything about it.

Only thing that changed for me is the exact status of the deceiver.

...and the number of models I now need to paint...

Sectiplave wrote:
It makes me sad, but I get the impression that you should forget most of the old Wraith fluff, they aren't Necron's anymore, they are constructs like Tomb Spyders and Scarabs, and will be getting a whole new model to suit this. So the idea of quick, lithe and ethereal Wraiths is a thing of the past :(

Keep in mind, though, that Wraiths can now get Whip Coils, an equipment option that forces their enemies in CC to strike at I1 thus you still strike first

Hmm, still thinking that a shooty list combined with a hth deatstar&Ctan will be a major threat to any army.

Alon the lines of this:

Warscythe/Phaseshifter court, lord with tachyon arrow,
Destroyer lord with a tachyon arrow

Ctan, lascannon ability and stealth offensive/defensive grenades

3*10 Warriors

3*? Destroyers

2 Monoliths for the template attacks and mobility of the units/ cover for c'tan

Valek wrote:things, plus a sig

In your sig, Valek, just so you know, it's Reanimation Protocols. Or, at the least, Resurrection has three 'r's.