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Played a game yesterday taking a old-fashioned leadblower list. Spearhead detachment. Trajan, -1 banner, 4 aquilon 1 Pallas and 3 Caladius tanks, plus 2 Telemons with storm cannons (1 had a fist). Almost tabled an admech player; he went first and didn’t shoot much while I pummeled his units the whole game with invincible terminators holding the middle. It was my opponent’s first game of 9th, but he had a pretty decent admech list.
Good to see that some of the old staples still have play, in particular I think the accelerator cannons add a lot of value as a generalist ranged weapon.

I have been wracking my brain to try and create a kit bash callidus, and I think the impulsor with the predator dual lascannon turret do a respectable job, I can't find a good kit bash for the storm cannons though.

The only way to kitbash a calidius is to use 2 of the FW bikes with something in the middle.

The model is too unique compared to other GW models.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
The only way to kitbash a calidius is to use 2 of the FW bikes with something in the middle.

The model is too unique compared to other GW models.

I mean, it's a kitbash, it can look however you want it to.

Size-wise, could be a concern, the Caladius is fairly large, like land raider sized.

If you have the points, a Telemon with the accelerator cannons is ALOT more durable, for only 35 points more.

Feeling more and more stupid about my choice to take a 9 man unit of guardians to a 1k tournament.

Unless the mission secondary is one of those score big X for holding enemy objective (and a lot of them are), I'm in trub.

Gonna hold the feth out of at least one objective though.

 dicerage wrote:
Feeling more and more stupid about my choice to take a 9 man unit of guardians to a 1k tournament.

Unless the mission secondary is one of those score big X for holding enemy objective (and a lot of them are), I'm in trub.

Gonna hold the feth out of at least one objective though.

Don't feel stupid, are there arguably better options? Sure. But as you said your list is locked and you gotta work with what you have now.
Also a 9 man squad of spears deepstriking in and potentially making a charge with the 3d6 dread host strat is still quite strong.
Keep the sisters on some backfield objectives in cover and use your bike captains to bully your opponent. At 1000 points the bike captains are exceptionally hard to kill.

If you try to go for a charge from deepstrike with your 9man spear squad, use the dreadhost strat to increase the odds of success and try to keep your bike captain with the all seeing annihilatior trait in range of them to benefit from the exploding 6s to hit. This way at 1000 points they are going to delete most things they reach anyway. Don't forget the +1 to wound strat against dreadnoughts and other high toughness stuff and that squad 9man squad will so some work for you.

 dicerage wrote:
Feeling more and more stupid about my choice to take a 9 man unit of guardians to a 1k tournament.

Unless the mission secondary is one of those score big X for holding enemy objective (and a lot of them are), I'm in trub.

Gonna hold the feth out of at least one objective though.

Don’t feel stupid. There haven’t been nearly enough consistent tournaments to know what the “best” list is. There have been a few examples, but at this point almost everything is confirmation bias because literally everyone is running what the pre-9th preview play testers/and YouTube channels said they thought was good. At Flying Monkey Con this past weekend every Custodes player ran pretty much the same list, and finished everywhere from 6th place to 2-4.
So if anything, you’re doing the community a favor by breaking the mold a little bit. Let us know how it goes, and don’t be afraid to keep experimenting!

Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

th3proj3ct wrote:
Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

Don't know about the whole list but you could maybe deal with Magnus using a melee Dreadnought, use the half damage strat and Magnus will only do 1 damage per wound.

th3proj3ct wrote:
Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

The obvious answer would be to take a Cullexus, plus remember that you can cancel that Smite on a 4+ with your Custodes stratagem.

The psychic focus smite nerf really stomped smite heavy armies like GK and TS. Word is still out if that will change in a new FAQ but GW has said it was a mistake and it will change back.

Question - Does anyone know if rules were ever released to allow people to USE Valerian and Aleya in a game? Or are they still some kind of weird hybrid that isn't an HQ, and can't be brought in a game?

 iGuy91 wrote:
Question - Does anyone know if rules were ever released to allow people to USE Valerian and Aleya in a game? Or are they still some kind of weird hybrid that isn't an HQ, and can't be brought in a game?

From what I know, they can be used in any IMPERIUM detachment without breaching the detachment keyword. Similar to how inquisitors work, but can be used as well as them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

th3proj3ct wrote:
Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

Use a culexus as someone already mentioned, and try and get a squad of termies/bikes charged into him. A squad of 5 should put some serious hurt on him in 1 round, and because they have 4W each he doesn't kill too many in return in combat.

The MW are definitely a problem. Magnus is never a good matchup for us, we aren't equipped to delete him off the table.

There was a good video by Table Top Titans, where he showed bolter bikes as nearly taking him out in a single turn. Granted they needed to make a pretty ugly charge, and literally everything has to go right with character rules, but Bikes can drop him in one turn, theoretically.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The psychic focus smite nerf really stomped smite heavy armies like GK and TS. Word is still out if that will change in a new FAQ but GW has said it was a mistake and it will change back.

I've heard quite the opposite, that Tsons and GK having psychic focus removed was completely intentional.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The psychic focus smite nerf really stomped smite heavy armies like GK and TS. Word is still out if that will change in a new FAQ but GW has said it was a mistake and it will change back.

I've heard quite the opposite, that Tsons and GK having psychic focus removed was completely intentional.

GW have clearly stated it was intentional and they willl not be adding it back in the GK FAQ:



But hey, Facebook rumors are more reliable than GW's own word right?

 mrhappyface wrote:

th3proj3ct wrote:
Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

Don't know about the whole list but you could maybe deal with Magnus using a melee Dreadnought, use the half damage strat and Magnus will only do 1 damage per wound.

That strat got changed to minus 1 damage

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How is it hyperbole to state that right now, Vanguard Vets outhit and cost less than the nearest comparable Custodes Models?

Stat wise, our BEST unit is either out bikes or our Telemons. Both cost WAY more than a full squad of Vanguard Vets with Thunder hammers and 2w each. How is that hyperbole? Marines go live right now with an unprecedented edge.

Not since the Tau of 7th has there been this level of cheese in a faction.

And to the "People are flocking to the golden bandwagon" argument. BS.

2w? They have 1w. If you refer to wound they get we don't know how much price will go up. While it's safe to bet too cheap still can't　use current price as comparison. You either use current price and 1w or 2w and can"t compare prices

tneva82 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How is it hyperbole to state that right now, Vanguard Vets outhit and cost less than the nearest comparable Custodes Models?

Stat wise, our BEST unit is either out bikes or our Telemons. Both cost WAY more than a full squad of Vanguard Vets with Thunder hammers and 2w each. How is that hyperbole? Marines go live right now with an unprecedented edge.

Not since the Tau of 7th has there been this level of cheese in a faction.

And to the "People are flocking to the golden bandwagon" argument. BS.

2w? They have 1w. If you refer to wound they get we don't know how much price will go up. While it's safe to bet too cheap still can't　use current price as comparison. You either use current price and 1w or 2w and can"t compare prices

So my comparison is based off the fact that our guys are literally the closest possible comparison bar point cost. They have a 12" fly move, a free deepstrike ability, fallback and charge (Or is that just Death Watch) S8 hitting a T4 3+ defense (With a possible 5++SS that may end up making them just +1 to all saves, we still don't know.), 2Ws, and the ability to get even more broken if you toss in a smash captain. Lets not forget Chapter Tactics because these guys can take Meltas bombs and Flamers so give them +1 to wound if they are Salamanders. You can take them in squads of 10. I don't know of many units that share this statline and possibilities. Granted I'm not Nostradomus of 40k. But what would you consider a "Fair" point cost for these guys?

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

th3proj3ct wrote:
Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

Don't know about the whole list but you could maybe deal with Magnus using a melee Dreadnought, use the half damage strat and Magnus will only do 1 damage per wound.

That strat got changed to minus 1 damage

Did the Space Marine strat get changed as well or did Custodes get shafted?

 mrhappyface wrote:

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

th3proj3ct wrote:
Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

Don't know about the whole list but you could maybe deal with Magnus using a melee Dreadnought, use the half damage strat and Magnus will only do 1 damage per wound.

That strat got changed to minus 1 damage

Did the Space Marine strat get changed as well or did Custodes get shafted?

Technically, our version as custodes was out of date, it was half damage for marines, which was nerfed to -1 damage. Then we got the version with half damage, which was promptly brought back into line with the marine version.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

So my comparison is based off the fact that our guys are literally the closest possible comparison bar point cost. They have a 12" fly move, a free deepstrike ability, fallback and charge (Or is that just Death Watch) S8 hitting a T4 3+ defense (With a possible 5++SS that may end up making them just +1 to all saves, we still don't know.), 2Ws, and the ability to get even more broken if you toss in a smash captain. Lets not forget Chapter Tactics because these guys can take Meltas bombs and Flamers so give them +1 to wound if they are Salamanders. You can take them in squads of 10. I don't know of many units that share this statline and possibilities. Granted I'm not Nostradomus of 40k. But what would you consider a "Fair" point cost for these guys?

Youve combined multiple different chapter tactics and (illegal) wargear configurations here, while also making wildly inaccurate rules statements.

For the second time, point for point Custodes *still* outperform VanHammer squads using new marine rules and old Custodes rules. And thats an equation I expect to see swing further in the Custodes direction as 9th edition updates roll out.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

th3proj3ct wrote:
Anyone have any advice for running against TSons lists running magnus at 1500 points? I dont have any super long range FW firepower, and feel like SoS will be murdered turn 1 by all the non basic Rubric weapons. I'm just not quite sure how to survive even past T3 with D6 mortal wounds coming from one big model.

Don't know about the whole list but you could maybe deal with Magnus using a melee Dreadnought, use the half damage strat and Magnus will only do 1 damage per wound.

That strat got changed to minus 1 damage

Did the Space Marine strat get changed as well or did Custodes get shafted?

Technically, our version as custodes was out of date, it was half damage for marines, which was nerfed to -1 damage. Then we got the version with half damage, which was promptly brought back into line with the marine version.

Ah me and my mate (he plays Space Marines) have both been playing it wrong then. Not that it matters, the only time I used the strat I managed to make all my invul saves.

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Craftworld match-up? Seems like we have a lot more objective claiming power, but they still have a ton of multi-damage and high AP at their disposal. Plus Wave Serpents.

Audustum wrote:
So what's everyone's thoughts on the Craftworld match-up? Seems like we have a lot more objective claiming power, but they still have a ton of multi-damage and high AP at their disposal. Plus Wave Serpents.

I think Eldar shooting is mainly scary thanks to Doom and Jinx which we now have the mechanisms to get rid of. I'd be taking the Deny WLT as my extra and using whatever stratagems necessary to prevent those powers going off/functioning. Between Auspice, the 4+ auto-deny and the original deny strat you can be fairly confident of avoiding one or both.

Fly nerf really hit Craftworlds hard and all their troops went up a bit, so I really dont think they'll be able to contest objectives well at all like you say. Wave serpents are still solid but they're now 150 points each so they ought to be, they aren't tough in CC so only the mortal wounds to worry about really. Watch out for war walkers or Dark reapers fire and fading back behind ruins to get out of LOS.

Unfortunately I'm the only Eldar player in my group so unlikely to face them myself anytime soon.

Spartacus wrote:

Audustum wrote:
So what's everyone's thoughts on the Craftworld match-up? Seems like we have a lot more objective claiming power, but they still have a ton of multi-damage and high AP at their disposal. Plus Wave Serpents.

I think Eldar shooting is mainly scary thanks to Doom and Jinx which we now have the mechanisms to get rid of. I'd be taking the Deny WLT as my extra and using whatever stratagems necessary to prevent those powers going off/functioning. Between Auspice, the 4+ auto-deny and the original deny strat you can be fairly confident of avoiding one or both.

Fly nerf really hit Craftworlds hard and all their troops went up a bit, so I really dont think they'll be able to contest objectives well at all like you say. Wave serpents are still solid but they're now 150 points each so they ought to be, they aren't tough in CC so only the mortal wounds to worry about really. Watch out for war walkers or Dark reapers fire and fading back behind ruins to get out of LOS.

Unfortunately I'm the only Eldar player in my group so unlikely to face them myself anytime soon.

Yeah, I was mostly worried about the mortal wounds flying off of Serpent Shields. What are your thoughts on Hornets?

Audustum wrote:

Yeah, I was mostly worried about the mortal wounds flying off of Serpent Shields. What are your thoughts on Hornets?

Absolutely horrifying

6 shots of S6 AP-3 D2 for that price is crazy good. As a unit they can be buffed up easily or individually they benefit hugely from Expert Crafters. Don't know if there's an efficient answer to them for Custodes.

The more I think about it, the more I see the answer to stuff like hornets being massive firepower of our own, like bringing back triple caladius (or Telemon). The only way to deal with glass cannon-type stuff is to kill it, and I think one of the weaknesses of a lot of the Custodes lists I’ve seen is (potentially) a sole reliance on durability and close combat. Both of those got buffed with War of the Spider, but Space Marine shooting is just as dominant as ever and the threats that killed us before are still out there; we can’t afford to let stuff just shoot us for 5 turns.
So I think Custodes lists need to include a decent “heavy shooting” base, my thoughts of some candidates:
Caladius Tank
Telemon Dread (and I think the accelerator cannons are more general purpose)
A few Pallas tanks
Agamatus bikes
Big Vertus Praetor squad with missiles for re-roll damage strat, can use grim responsibility and no rerolls to keep them alive plus you get close and the mulch you.