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 Singleton Mosby wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
we'll have to see how they balance out the Nobz between snagga boys and Mega Nobs.

Hopefully they wont get stuck inbetween and be useless again this edition

Nobz aren't useless at all at the moment. Take a Deafskulls squad of 2 PK or saws, 2x rokkit and fill out with dual choppa nobz. Add an ammo runt and put them in a transport. Some 250 points of general usefulness whatever is coming your way.

for two 250 points i could have 29 boys and 1 nob with a killsaw.

If i wanted dedicated anti tanking id just go for Mega Nobz i feel. I dont feel like going for a bit of power klaw, bit of rokkits, bit of choppas makes Nobz or any ork unit good. The best way ive found for ork units is going dedicated one thing only. Dedicated anti infantry, dedicated anti tanking. dedicated something. by splitting your one unit you become good at nothing, but somewhat at everything. Maybe it works out, but it doesnt.. sound good in my opinion.

Only real way i see going Nobz atm is Double choppas (made redundant if you go skarboys) or Big Choppas. My fear is that double choppas Nobz will still be redundant because of Beast SNagga boys.

And as i speculated some many pages ago, big choppas dont change. I made the speculation based on the Mek Boss Buzzgob keeping his old profile for his big choppa in the forge world updated book, and guess no change was indeed made. Big Choppas are... decent. But its too easy to gain nothing from a -1 AP.

its also a weird profile. +2 strength and 2 damage.. but -1 AP? weird profile i say. It makes a lot more sense to get -2AP from Big Choppas.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Bigchoppas remaining ap1 is weird.
I almost dont see a reason to take them over Choppas now, because S7 AP1 2D isnt really all that better against infantry than S5 AP1 with an extra swing instead of 2D.

Especially since now theres 'Uge Choppas, which are AP3. Would have fit nicely to have bigchoppas AP2.

Said exactly that several times today in many discussions

Rofl i wonder if "Ard Boyz" remain a stratagem.

Toughness 6 Boys!

Beardedragon wrote:
Rofl i wonder if "Ard Boyz" remain a stratagem.

Toughness 6 Boys!

Chances are ardboyz will be back to per model point upgrade rather than a strat, but with T5 base, if they buff it back up to a 4+ save, I could see Ard boyz being a real pain in the butt to remove off the table.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Rofl i wonder if "Ard Boyz" remain a stratagem.

Toughness 6 Boys!

Chances are ardboyz will be back to per model point upgrade rather than a strat, but with T5 base, if they buff it back up to a 4+ save, I could see Ard boyz being a real pain in the butt to remove off the table.

Oh right it increased the save value not the toughness value. I forgot

At 250 points, I'd probably just take 5 Mega Nobs with double saw and a trukk and be happier.

As Deathskulls too they're even obsec, and get some re-rolls to smooth out the rolls.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Rofl i wonder if "Ard Boyz" remain a stratagem.

Toughness 6 Boys!

Chances are ardboyz will be back to per model point upgrade rather than a strat, but with T5 base, if they buff it back up to a 4+ save, I could see Ard boyz being a real pain in the butt to remove off the table.

Eh. That pushes them into the niche where they're perfect targets for anti-marine weapons that people are bringing anyway. As a bonus, they don't even need to overcharge the plasma.

i know all the talk is on what we do know, T5 boyz etc.

i am more interested in what we don't know.

i hope they add new or rework some of the spells and relics, some options are just plain bad.

GITSTOPPA SHELLS is just so pointless as an option.....

 kingbbobb wrote:
i know all the talk is on what we do know, T5 boyz etc.

i am more interested in what we don't know.

i hope they add new or rework some of the spells and relics, some options are just plain bad.

GITSTOPPA SHELLS is just so pointless as an option.....

Definitely. Our relics and spells sorely need a do-over, since barring Warpath and Da Jump, our other psychic spells may as well not exist, barring the Klan specific ones.

Ideally, this means the big choppa relic might become relevant again given the new 'Uge Choppa profile. I'd love for something besides the Killa Klaw to be an option. It'd be a great time for them to bring back the Mega Kustom Force Field and some other old classics to help spice up our HQ roster when it comes to gear.

Honestly you're probably always going to have a few duds in the relic department. And I'd be fairly happy with a meh spread of relics as long as they keep or even buff the Kustom jobs. Upon saying that, if both are competitive then i'll be a happy ork.

cody.d. wrote:
Honestly you're probably always going to have a few duds in the relic department. And I'd be fairly happy with a meh spread of relics as long as they keep or even buff the Kustom jobs. Upon saying that, if both are competitive then i'll be a happy ork.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting all of them to be A+++ tier competitive, just making it so they can actually do something useful and not feeling like you're paying CP for effectively a tiny increase in damage output you'll almost never see impact the game meaningfully when you take it.

To be fair this all feels weird with boys at T5. I mean, i always envisioned that Nobz and Mega Nobz should have higher toughness than boys, and thats probably not going to happen now (Toughness 6 Nobz and mega Nobz? really doubt it).

Dont get me wrong, i love having T5 Boys, but it always felt odd they had the same Toughness as Nobz and mega variants.

And this edition probably wont change that

cody.d. wrote:
So the Data secondary could be completed second turn right? 2 units of grots in your table side do it first turn then 2 units of kommandoz do it when they can deep strike the following turn. Can't seem to find anything about it being a once per turn sort of thing.

Does the secondary give you special permission to do action by more than 1 unit? Default is 1 action per turn. Raise banner specifically allows multiple units to do it. That's why scramblers have taken 3 turns before to do minimum which made it bit riskier than if you could do it in one turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
It's more so a tiny boy is as bulky as a Custode or a SM in massive armour. It just feels a bit off. I imagine Custodes will likely be going to T6 or something.
I'd almost rather the boy be t4 and snagga be t5, as they seem much bigger.

And no, 2 wound boys would probably be broken if they were cheap, as they should be. We're a horde army.

Bulk aka size is what GW uses to determine W characteristic.

Remind me. Didn't custodians have 3x wounds than ork boy?

There's your bulk.

 Grimskul wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Honestly you're probably always going to have a few duds in the relic department. And I'd be fairly happy with a meh spread of relics as long as they keep or even buff the Kustom jobs. Upon saying that, if both are competitive then i'll be a happy ork.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting all of them to be A+++ tier competitive, just making it so they can actually do something useful and not feeling like you're paying CP for effectively a tiny increase in damage output you'll almost never see impact the game meaningfully when you take it.

That raises a fair question then. For your teef what type of relics/warlord traits do you prefer mate? The ones that give a damage upgrade to a weapon, some sort of special rule for the model or their attacks, or even the ones that give an aura of some variety? I reckon ork fluff could justify any of them. Hell we had a bouncing relic in the 8th ed book.

i just want the relics from the ghaz supplement in 7th. Mega forcefield, 4++ for models in 6 inches. the killdakka, a gun with like ten different profiles you rolled to pick. and also that one choppa that got better the more you killed with it.

I'm shocked that the Gretchin Revolutionary Front fans haven't been raving over the news that gretchin are gaining +1 Toughness
Of course, whether that actually makes them useful depends on points and other rules...

 Clang wrote:
I'm shocked that the Gretchin Revolutionary Front fans haven't been raving over the news that gretchin are gaining +1 Toughness
Of course, whether that actually makes them useful depends on points and other rules...

I don't like it. t2 was one of the few things seperating grots from cultists really, it was part of their unique identity as a unit, terrible, but cheap. now they're just gonna be knockoff guardsmen .

I doubt the only change for Gretchin will be T3
But time and GW weirdness will tell.

Am I the only one believing the new uge choppa will be only available for the mega armoured warboss?

The +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles will be interesting for the squigriders... Don't they have some kind of rocket propelled spear?

RedNoak wrote:
I doubt the only change for Gretchin will be T3
But time and GW weirdness will tell.

Am I the only one believing the new uge choppa will be only available for the mega armoured warboss?

The +1 to hit against monsters and vehicles will be interesting for the squigriders... Don't they have some kind of rocket propelled spear?

I believe they do. At first i was sad because maybe 1+ to wound made more sense, as you already hit on a 3 for beast snagga boys, but then i thought, as you did, that there are probably ranged weapons like the rockets that hits like crap on BS5, but now they hit on 4s which make them decent. Then again, +1 to wound would maybe put them in a category of over performing.


So yea im happy about the +1 to hit, especially considering rocket spears and all

T5 Boyz will likely also mean T6 Warbikers!
If they also get the improved save strat integrated into their profile, they will become a lot more resilent. Maybe they will get a new role as a fast, chaff clearing unit, to go around and capture backfield objectives. If we get something to make Warbikers get Objective Secured (Perhaps Evil Sunz clan trait?) then they will definitely fit that role!

 Bonde wrote:
T5 Boyz will likely also mean T6 Warbikers!
If they also get the improved save strat integrated into their profile, they will become a lot more resilent. Maybe they will get a new role as a fast, chaff clearing unit, to go around and capture backfield objectives. If we get something to make Warbikers get Objective Secured (Perhaps Evil Sunz clan trait?) then they will definitely fit that role!

t6 warbikers means t7 trukks ! .

Happy with the new reveals for us. I played my 2k gift horde with 90 boyz and ghaz last week into a death guard army and had almost been tabled by turn 2. I was dying in droves even with KFF and painboy etc. When I actually got into combat with plague marines or terminators all my attacks would just bounce off their crazy save and toughness. Now with ap-1 and the beast snaggas being ST5 I would have definitely been making my way through units.

My grots are fine with T2. Keep them as cheap as possible!

T5 boyz means that koptas and bikes should be T6. Trukks won't be buffed to T7, which is a value related to proper tanks, including the Battlewagon.

Nobz, Flash Gitz and meganobz at T5 and multiwounds will benefit a lot.

Also min squads of kommandos and stormboyz could be great if they remain cheap.

With AP-1 and T5 boyz finally seem to be fine at 8ppm, but I think even 9ppm could be acceptable. That was their points cost in 3rd edition actually, when they did have an equivalent of an AP modifier against armored units (choppas allowed 4+ as highest save, an actual AP-2 against TEQs), and they were great despite their S3 and T4.

I really really hope, this doesn't mean a transition of the orks from mass of cheap models to some elite hummie army. I love my hordes!

Voss wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Rofl i wonder if "Ard Boyz" remain a stratagem.

Toughness 6 Boys!

Chances are ardboyz will be back to per model point upgrade rather than a strat, but with T5 base, if they buff it back up to a 4+ save, I could see Ard boyz being a real pain in the butt to remove off the table.

Eh. That pushes them into the niche where they're perfect targets for anti-marine weapons that people are bringing anyway. As a bonus, they don't even need to overcharge the plasma.

A marine with a plasma gun is at least 28-30 points, killing 10 point 'ard boyz still isn't too good for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tomsug wrote:
I really really hope, this doesn't mean a transition of the orks from mass of cheap models to some elite hummie army. I love my hordes!

I think T5 is the prefect change to prevent that. You'll still have your horde with a few less model and, it will just die slightly slower to stuff good at killing hordes.

It's also likely that other things in the codex get cheaper, so an army that wasn't just smashas+boyz might end up costing less than it does now.

And in the end, this is what all of us wanted - shifting the pendulum away from a decade of playing green tide.

 Tomsug wrote:
I really really hope, this doesn't mean a transition of the orks from mass of cheap models to some elite hummie army. I love my hordes!

I hope so too. I think the biggest potential is actually in the rules for mobs, waahg and unstopable green tide and not so much in the points.

Its seems GW wants to move away from just flooding the board and honestly I had not much fun with shoving around too many models as of lately. Mostly because they just died and did next to no damage.

Choppas with AP-1 means that boyz can actually kill something again. Additionally I'm looking forward to being wounded on 5s only by marines. I suspect this however to come at a cost. But not all is lost if i.e. they let me have some rules for adding additional ork boyz to my mobs during the game (like reanimation protocols but in a more orky way)

I even look forward to write mixed lists for orks now (mind you I already did, but they would typically not perform well).

 Tomsug wrote:
I really really hope, this doesn't mean a transition of the orks from mass of cheap models to some elite hummie army. I love my hordes!

I love armies with 80-120 models, including specialists, characters and vehicles and I consider such armies horde oriented. Elite hummie armies have 40ish models, some are ok even with 25-30.

I think this is all great news. Maybe i’m being naive, but i’ll give GW the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are making changes that will make orks competitive with the likes of DG, DA, and ad mech. Not drukhari because that’s just ridiculous.

The extra toughness across the board is very welcome indeed and makes sense thematically to me. Orks keep fighting unless their head is chopped off. I was hoping grots would go back to 3 pts, but maybe they can make them worth the 5.

I am most interested to see if we get command protocols style upgrades and how they change up the kulturs.

T5 horde is going to die a lot slower than T3/4.

Vast majority of guns hitting horde units are S4 with a few being S5. At worst, you deny wounding on 3s which is a lot less wounds.

All i gotta say though is that they better not make boyz 10pts over this. As whats been stated several times, theyre not good right now theyre just anti-meta. The moment you have a list that isnt hypertailored to kill marines boyz dont do jack. At 8ppm with these buffs they'd be a threat but not a gamekiller threat unless people are still dumb enough to not take ANY antihorde weapons in their lists in the future.