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With the advent of digital GW rulebooks, and the add-on articles,
will they ever put WD only rules up on the site for free again?

I'm thinkin not.
My impression is that from now on, if you miss out on the White Dwarf,
your only option is the digital product. And if you don't own an iPad, you are SOL.

Not liking this approach.
I don't like the idea of having to get a WD sub to make sure I don't miss any rules.
It already feels like the edition changes are more of a tax to keep playing
than a refinement or evolution of the game.

Thoughts?

So you dont like gw doing the thing they aren't doing but you say they will do with no proof? Ok then.

skrulnik wrote:Not liking this approach.
I don't like the idea of having to get a WD sub to make sure I don't miss any rules.
It already feels like the edition changes are more of a tax to keep playing
than a refinement or evolution of the game.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you are jumping to conclusions without much in the way of confirmation.

My conclusion was the Stormtalon and Ork Bomma rules.

White Dwarf issue that sold out, or digital product.

Also, where is the Sisters of Battle codex that was in White Dwarf?

I don't like that there are game rules that are only available to a part of the player base.

Did GW stop you from buying their WD?

Did GW restrict access to who could buy WD?

No they didn't. So GW is not making "game rules that are only available to part of their player base".

At least, not in any way they haven't already.

I don't buy every single codex that is released, so should i be complaining about how those rules are not available to me?

You seem to think you are entitled to get free rules from GW. This is not the case.

Dracos wrote:
I don't buy every single codex that is released, so should i be complaining about how those rules are not available to me?

You seem to think you are entitled to get free rules from GW. This is not the case.

Hi I'm johnny new guy who would like to play Sisters of Battle how do I get the codex?

R3con wrote:

Dracos wrote:
I don't buy every single codex that is released, so should i be complaining about how those rules are not available to me?

You seem to think you are entitled to get free rules from GW. This is not the case.

Hi I'm johnny new guy who would like to play Sisters of Battle how do I get the codex?

Now that is a good post and a good point!

R3con wrote:

Dracos wrote:
I don't buy every single codex that is released, so should i be complaining about how those rules are not available to me?

You seem to think you are entitled to get free rules from GW. This is not the case.

Hi I'm johnny new guy who would like to play Sisters of Battle how do I get the codex?

This. You seem awfully quick to jump down the OP's throat and attack him for what are legitimate concerns, Dracos. There are plenty of reasons a person might want to pick up some of these rules after a WD has sold-out. What about those who weren't aware that the rules for Ork Bommers were only in the WD? Oh, you just started Orks? Well, look at this cool jet model they have, it isn't in the codex and you can't get the rules anymore, without an IPad, but doesn't it look neat? Whether they should remain free or not is entirely up to GW, but cutting certain customers off from them entirely is just silly.

The thing to remember is that the WD rules are temporary updates meant to keep an army playable. GW SHOULD be putting out an update, much like the errata and FAQ, but why bother when you can make people pay for it, and fill the opposite page with advertising of the new model to make people go buy it.

If somone doesn't buy every codex, that's their choice. My mate buys every single codex and keeps it to hand in case he needs to review the enemy he's facing, or in case a friend swings by without their codex. It makes a huge deal when you have access to the current rules or not, and you show up to a game, but don't have the rules for the new stuff, and your opponent does. It's like agreeing on a joust, but bringing gun instead of a lance.

Further to the point, with limited issues of WD available, and the copyright surrounding those, the answer is: yes, GW did in fact limit the availability of the rules for it's players. Let's say GW released a limited edition version of every codex, releasing only 100 copies that gives access to 5 special units and special rules. Only the owner of those rules has access to them. Sure, you could copy the rules. And then get clapped for copyright violation and infringement of terms of use. You could try memorising them, but get asked to produce the rules, and you don't have the book.... awesome.

Dracos wrote:Did GW restrict access to who could buy WD?

Given that the issue with the new fliers in it sold out just about instantly, yes, they sort of did.

And as others have pointed out, anyone who is starting the game (or just starting a new army) now is just out of luck.

I don't buy every single codex that is released, so should i be complaining about how those rules are not available to me?

The codexes are available. The WD rules aren't.

You seem to think you are entitled to get free rules from GW. This is not the case.

Offering the rules for free would obviously be the option that people would prefer... but I suspect that most players would have no problem at all with paying a small fee for downloadable rules if they were made an option. Having to purchase an iPad first though makes that a distinctly less attractive option.

If you really want the rules that WD has to offer, you can subscribe and not have the problem with them running out of copies.

WD rules are available to those who buy them, and the way to guarantee a buy is a subscription.

Hey I'm no GW apologist, and I'd personally love PDF rules updates. But to say they are not available is just false, they are just not available in the medium or payment method you desire. Too bad.

I don't particularly like the way some rules updates are done, but the OPs claim is unfounded and he's whining about an action he's speculating they will take.

I went to several stores the day after the Dakka Jet white dwarf came out. They were sold out. I called many stores. Sold out.

I love the look of the Dakka Jet, but I'll be damned if I'll buy a model if there are no rules that I can legally obtain. I don't care if it's a free pdf or printed in a book I have to buy, but make it available.

The WD is out of print, Dracos. The only other place to get the Dakka Jet rules is a iPad only datafile.

Calling people whiners over this issue is trolling.

Oh you didn't get your subscription copy?

Dracos wrote:Oh you didn't get your subscription copy?

More trolling. Nice.

Dracos wrote:If you really want the rules that WD has to offer, you can subscribe and not have the problem with them running out of copies.

Excellent. I will go sign up immediately!

When do I receive the issue with the Stormtalon rules in it?

Hint: They have a foolproof option for you to never miss a WD rules update. Its called a subscription.

Just because you don't like that option does not mean its not available.

I don't like it, but that doesn't mean its not an option. You guys are claiming you have no option, but really you just dont like the option that you have.

HI. I'm Johnny new guy and I just got my subscription today!

Where are the Dakka Jet rules?

Dracos wrote:You guys are claiming you have no option, but really you just dont like the option that you have.

There is no option.

insaniak wrote:

Dracos wrote:If you really want the rules that WD has to offer, you can subscribe and not have the problem with them running out of copies.

Excellent. I will go sign up immediately!

When do I receive the issue with the Stormtalon rules in it?

And I'm called a troll. Ok then.

Dracos wrote:And I'm called a troll. Ok then.

Are you really surprised? You're claiming that the rules are available because people would have received the White Dwarf if they had subscribed.

Can you honestly not see how that does not equate to the rules being currently available?

Unless time travel has suddenly become an option, signing up for a subscription does not get you rules that were only available in a previous White Dwarf issue. Anyone who decided to start an Ork or Marine army with the new edition of 40K has no access to the flyer rules. Anyone new to the game likewise has no access to those rules. Telling them that they should have set up a subscription for White Dwarf 3 months ago doesn't change the simple fact that the rules are not currently available.

Android house here, need flyer rules, have no subscription to WD and only monthly access at best to a shop. I was waiting patiently for the Stormtalon rules, will I be waiting in vain?

And you guys are acting like you're surprised that GW isn't giving you shat for free. AFAIK it would be against everything we know about GW for that to happen.

If you want WD rules, then you must subscribe or take the gamble that you can get it at the store before they run out.

That is the option you have. If you took the gamble and didn't win, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Again, just because you don't like the option given, which is to subscribe to the magazine, doesn't mean it isn't there.

As you so pointed out, time travel does not exist yet (at least not to my knowledge). That makes going back in time and subscribing before your "must have" issue comes out not an option.

Not surprising either, considering they want people to subscribe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BladeWalker wrote:have no subscription to WD

And that's the source of your problem. At the moment, the only way to guarantee you will have all rules WD will release is to subscribe. Sorry :S

Or, y'know, when you release a model which isn't in a codex, you could include a sheet of A4 as an insert with the rules in.

Admittedly, this only works on boxed sets, but the point stands.

Did GW stop you from buying their WD?

Yes. When they started pricing it at a ridiculous level. I mean, it's a CATALOG, for heaven's sake.

Did GW restrict access to who could buy WD?

Yes. By pricing it at such a ridiculous amount, they restricted it from purchase by anyone who couldn't possibly make sense of spending $9 on a catalog or who, in the case of many younger fans, simply couldn't afford it.

No they didn't. So GW is not making "game rules that are only available to part of their player base".

Actually, the answer's "Yes," for the reasons above.

You seem to think you are entitled to get free rules from GW. This is not the case.

Or, perhaps, he thinks GW should do (what he feels to be) a better job supporting it's product and fan base by making rules more easily available for those people who purchase the model and already own the codex for the army it's supposed to be for.

What if GW kept up this model? Instead of releasing codices, they started just releasing models for particular armies and charging $9 for the WD that has their rules or $6 (or whatever it costs) for a digital download of them... if you happen to have the only platform they're releasing the rules to be compatible with?

If you really want the rules that WD has to offer, you can subscribe and not have the problem with them running out of copies.

WD rules are available to those who buy them, and the way to guarantee a buy is a subscription.

Hey, now. There's an interesting option. We should pay $75 a year for a GW catalog (or nearly $21 more, if you want the Special [note: NOT Limited] Edition model included), which has been steadily declining in quality over the last 3 to 5 years, on the off chance that it will have some rules in it at some point that year for models that we don't even know are coming out, since the GW machine doesn't want anyone to know anything in advance, or that we'll even use.
Better yet, let's go ahead and buy the 2 years for $140!


Maybe, Dracos, you should consider dropping the vitriol and communicate in a more respectful manner. You might be surprised at the difference in the way your opinions are accepted or, at least, treated.


Eric

Dracos wrote:And you guys are acting like you're surprised that GW isn't giving you shat for free.

Aside from the part where I already mentioned no minding having to pay for the rules?

If you want WD rules, then you must subscribe or take the gamble that you can get it at the store before they run out.

With the end result being that if you didn't get that WD, the rules are not available.

Which, you know, was the point of the thread.

As you so pointed out, time travel does not exist yet (at least not to my knowledge). That makes going back in time and subscribing before your "must have" issue comes out not an option.

Which means that the rules are not currently available. Are you seeing the pattern here yet?

Don't want to subscribe to WD? Then don't.

But if you fail to subscribe, you give up the ability to legitimately complain that an item included in the subscription is unavailable to you.

Its really just that simple.

Sorry you don't like the option GW is giving you.

I'd also like to get free rules, and hell why not throw some free models, paints and an apple pie in because I want it.

Dracos wrote:And you guys are acting like you're surprised that GW isn't giving you shat for free. AFAIK it would be against everything we know about GW for that to happen.

If you want WD rules, then you must subscribe or take the gamble that you can get it at the store before they run out.

That is the option you have. If you took the gamble and didn't win, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Again, just because you don't like the option given, which is to subscribe to the magazine, doesn't mean it isn't there.

As you so pointed out, time travel does not exist yet (at least not to my knowledge). That makes going back in time and subscribing before your "must have" issue comes out not an option.

Not surprising either, considering they want people to subscribe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BladeWalker wrote:have no subscription to WD

And that's the source of your problem. At the moment, the only way to guarantee you will have all rules WD will release is to subscribe. Sorry :S

Whilst I do think it is annoying that lots of vital rules are only available in out of print White Dwarves, I find it hard to disagree with this guy. Why? Try reading his post in GLaDOS's voice.

So will we then see a refusal to play with models with WD rules only?

I can see a distinct similarity to the Forgeworld situation. No-one wants to play FW because they don't know the rules for them (not available) or that they have to pay excessive amounts of cash (subscriptions) to get them.

So will WD only rules be dismissed from tourneys as FW is?

Cheers

Andrew

I used to have a subscription to WD.

It wasn't a guarantee you WOULD get an issue, or even that you'd get it BEFORE the news-stands. Indeed, in the 7 or so years I had subscriptions for, it wasn't an uncommon thing to not get at least one issue per subscription.

After complaining to them (politely. The more steamed I get, the more polite I get. I was VERY polite.) I ended up getting a 3 month extension to the subscription per missed issue. I still didn't get those issues.

I'm not about to get an overpriced toy (ipad)* just to get that information that I should have received as a subscriber.


*I've worked in Apple's service department, it has forever soured me on EVER using one of their products, let alone forking over the readies for one.

Dracos wrote:Don't want to subscribe to WD? Then don't.

But if you fail to subscribe, you give up the ability to legitimately complain that an item included in the subscription is unavailable to you.

So, what this boils down to is that everyone on the planet should subscribe to White Dwarf, on the off-chance that it will include rules that they might want if they ever start playing 40K, or they have nobody but themselves to blame if they start playing 40K and/or that specific army and don't have access to those rules?


And you seriously don't see why people find that idea just the slightest bit ridiculous?

I'd also like to get free rules, and hell why not throw some free models, paints and an apple pie in because I want it.

For the third time, then... I have no problem with paying for the rules. I would happily pay a couple of dollars for a PDF download. I would happily pay a couple of dollars for some guy at GW to photocopy the pages from White Dwarf and post them to me. I would happily pay a few dollars for an eBook download. I have no problem whatsoever with the rules not being available for free... just with them not being available at all unless I gain the ability to leap through time and subscribe to White Dwarf retrospectively.

Dracos wrote:Don't want to subscribe to WD? Then don't.

But if you fail to subscribe, you give up the ability to legitimately complain that an item included in the subscription is unavailable to you.

Its really just that simple.

Sorry you don't like the option GW is giving you.

I'd also like to get free rules, and hell why not throw some free models, paints and an apple pie in because I want it.

The reason we have codices, is to have the rules. Updates like FAQ and Errata are designed to clarify and amend the rules. When you release a limited-print document, and charge everyone $10 for the rules contained in it, that's that. You are not allowed to make copies of what's there, and even if you memorize what's in your friend's copy, you're always required to produce the source if your oponent feels the need to ask. The result is that the vast majority of players do not have access to these units, simply because the rules are a limited edition release available to only those who bought that issue. Anyone can go and buy a current codex at any given time. Only so many people can buy a WD issue because they are limited. Subscribe you say? And pray tell, why should I waste $10/month for MAYBE getting an updated set of rules once every year? thats $85 year-subscription. I don't see why I should pay GW $10 a month to have them send me a magazine that's 90% advertising. Heck, WD's purpose isn't to publish rules, but to advertise and, on the rare occasion that GW sees the light, offer hobby advice. GW is giving me other options too, like walking away and going to a different gaming company that isn't as cult oriented that gives all of the customers equal access to the rules irrespective of when they joined. GW's customer service is awesome, but it's easy to have great customer service when there is absolutely no customer support.


Your arguments that GW doesnt give out rules for free is baseless, you can see that for yourself by clicking here or here. It might also help for you to scroll to the bottom of a page when shopping at the web store. You'll find the basic profile listed there. These are after all still rules, and they are available to everyone. It stands in GW's interest to release the rules and make them available online for the one model they added to the rulebook. Would GW rather get say, $570 by selling 50 copies of WD and having the 50th person pick up a storm-talon, or would GW rather make $1200 by selling 50 copies of WD, and making the rules available to everyone, so that the 9 other dudes who don't buy WD buy the model? Hell, if GW had a piece of laminated card-stock with the rules for the storm-talon on it, sure, I'd pay for that. Not for the WD magazine.

Do you want free rules? Really? I'm more than willing to provide them for you. Simply follow this link.