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Unless they make them for android as well as apple I wont care. GW could only decide to stick with apple but gw are expensive enough without also having to fork out for an apple product. I believe eventually they will release stuff for android but it would be a huge mistake for gw to remove stuff from their website as not everyone owns a tablet device or fancies carrying them around in a gw store (nout against kids but well ya know)

well, I know a way to get free rules.... but thats more or less illegal and gets me banned from the forums :3

Insaniak what you don't like is the price of the product. They are offering it to you as part of a package deal. You don't like that. But saying its not available is flat out wrong.

The only complaint that is legitimate is new players not having access to products released in WD because those WD are no longer available. That is a completely legitimate complaint that they should address.

Just because you've repeated yourself 3 times that you have no problem paying for the rules, doesn't make it true. Sure, you'll pay a price - but you seem to want to dictate the terms of the price "a couple of dollards for a pdf" or a photocopy.

I can't go into most stores and dictate on what terms their products are available to me. Its very strange that you seem to think this is okay to do with GW.

Don't pretend like you are new player Insaniak. You could have subscribed to WD at any point if the rules really had this much value to you. The fact that you still haven't subscribed says you don't attribute the value to the product (ie rules) that GW charges, and therefore you don't buy it. Thats ok. But if you don't pay what they want for it, you don't get it. This is how retail works.

WD only rules for a new model (at the time).

rules available for free directly from GW
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=cat440244a&aId=15100016a

Entire Expansion Ruleset provided free (was in WD only)
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=cat440244a&aId=9800021a

History indicates that they didn't have a problem providing rules. Digital release has now provided the rules to a subset of players that might have missed something the first time around. Still not available to everyone with out a major purchase.

Dracos are you deliberately trolling?

Just incase you somehow aren't, here are the points you are quite clearly missing or choosing to overlook

-White dwarf does not show whats coming next in an issue, you have no way of knowing if something new is coming out rules wise for your army
-White dwarf does not have guaranteed rules in all (or any) issues, so subscribing to maybe get the rules for something that might possibly (noone knows because of GWs great marketing) appear in the next few months doesnt work
-Models which are sold online and instore have no rules, but are still sold as legitimate options for an army with no warning that they have no rules available for them in an armies codex
-Most people do not own an iPad, and do not have the want, need, or means to shell out for one simply for a glorified PDF rulesheet
-Noone is asking for free stuff, they are asking for a way to legitimately buy rules that should be available for models (and an entire army in SoB's case) that are sold online and in GW stores.

What of that do you not understand exactly?

Anyways, I hadnt actually thought of the flyer things until now, but dayuum thats bad! Mabye they'll get added with the next batch of FAQs? kinda needs to happen

Dracos wrote:Insaniak what you don't like is the price of the product. They are offering it to you as part of a package deal. You don't like that. But saying its not available is flat out wrong.

So show me where a new player, or someone who is just now looking to start a marine army, or someone who with the new edition has decided to add fliers to their army, can currently purchase the rules for the Stormtalon?

This has nothing to do with the price. These rules are simply not available.

The only complaint that is legitimate is new players not having access to products released in WD because those WD are no longer available. That is a completely legitimate complaint that they should address.

Which is a part of what I've been saying all along, and you have been arguing against on the basis that White Dwarf was available to subscribers 3 months ago.

Just because you've repeated yourself 3 times that you have no problem paying for the rules, doesn't make it true. Sure, you'll pay a price - but you seem to want to dictate the terms of the price "a couple of dollards for a pdf" or a photocopy.

I can't go into most stores and dictate on what terms their products are available to me. Its very strange that you seem to think this is okay to do with GW.

The what now?

I'm not dictating a price. I'm saying that I would happily pay for a product that isn't currently available, in response to your claim that those wanting GW to make these rules available just want them for free.

Don't pretend like you are new player Insaniak. You could have subscribed to WD at any point if the rules really had this much value to you. The fact that you still haven't subscribed says you don't attribute the value to the product (ie rules) that GW charges, and therefore you don't buy it. Thats ok. But if you don't pay what they want for it, you don't get it. This is how retail works.

I'm not pretending I'm a new player. I'm a current player who would like the Stormtalon rules, which are not currently available.

I don't subscribe to White Dwarf for the same reason I don't buy it at all... for years, there was nothing in it that made it worth buying. If GW had made their customers aware ahead of time that they were intending to start publishing rules in it again, I might have reconsidered... they didn't. They just released the rules unannounced, and they sold out before many players could get a hold of them.

At best, that's poor communication on the part of the company, thanks to their current media blackout rules.

What they expect to achieve by cutting players off from the rules for new models is beyond me.

It's hardly difficult to get the rules.

And I am pretty sure if you contact GW they will sell you the required back issues of WD if you feel uncomfortable about using google... or GW's website...

marielle wrote:And I am pretty sure if you contact GW they will sell you the required back issues of WD if you feel uncomfortable about using google... or GW's website...

A few posters in other threads discussing the fliers have mentioned contacting GW and being told that all backissues were gone.

Bobug wrote:Dracos are you deliberately trolling?

Sure, lets let the trolling accusations fly around! Why not, when someone disagrees its always trolling, MIRITE?

Bobug wrote:-White dwarf does not show whats coming next in an issue, you have no way of knowing if something new is coming out rules wise for your army
-White dwarf does not have guaranteed rules in all (or any) issues, so subscribing to maybe get the rules for something that might possibly (noone knows because of GWs great marketing) appear in the next few months doesnt work

This is quite clearly by design. If they told you which issues had the stuff you wanted in it, it would be pretty hard to sell you on all of them, wouldn't it? Again this is you complaining of how they make them available, not the lack of availability.

Now, I don't agree that this is a sound marketing concept. Put me at the head of GW and you see a lot of things done differently. But then put me at the head of any number of other companies and you'd get a lot of things done differently too. The fact is that we aren't in charge, and its a waste of your time to try and pretend like you are.

Bobug wrote:-Models which are sold online and instore have no rules, but are still sold as legitimate options for an army with no warning that they have no rules available for them in an armies codex

Which models have no rules? Oh you mean the rules that were made available in a format you didn't want to buy. Ok.

Bobug wrote:-Most people do not own an iPad, and do not have the want, need, or means to shell out for one simply for a glorified PDF rulesheet
-Noone is asking for free stuff, they are asking for a way to legitimately buy rules that should be available for models (and an entire army in SoB's case) that are sold online and in GW stores.

Right so the terms that GW wants to sell you these rules is not the terms you want, and therefore its impossible to get them. Got it.


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insaniak wrote:At best, that's poor communication on the part of the company, thanks to their current media blackout rules.

What they expect to achieve by cutting players off from the rules for new models is beyond me.

I completely agree with you here. Their marketing is suspect.

I think its pretty easy to see that they want to increase WD subscriptions, and having limited release content seems like a great way to do it.

I don't happen to agree that this is a sound course of action, but then I don't get to decide what they do.

Not complaining simply asking if it is still possible if it will show up on the website or will we be waiting for the new SM book for the Stormtalon rules in print? I'm not sure what is being argued but I was just questioning that aspect of the OP... there is no word officially when the rules will appear again right? (sorry if I missed it in the quote fighting guys)

Dracos wrote:This is quite clearly by design. If they told you which issues had the stuff you wanted in it, it would be pretty hard to sell you on all of them, wouldn't it?

You know what makes it even harder? When GW stopped the regular Chapter Approved articles several years ago, they specifically said that they wouldn't be introducing new unit rules in White Dwarf any more, because it got too hard for people to keep track of them.

So making some sort of announcement to the effect that this policy had changed before releasing an issue with new rules in it might have made a difference to those deciding whether or not to subscribe...

Quit feeding the parasprites.

well Draco, answer me this, How am I supposed to play SOB or marines with the storm talon? I dont have an Ipad and cant afford to pay the price to buy the subscription all at once (can buy white dwarfs here and there though)... I guess I just dont get your frame of mind on this issue :/

BewareOfTom wrote: I dont have an Ipad and cant afford to pay the price to buy the subscription all at once (can buy white dwarfs here and there though)... I guess I just dont get your frame of mind on this issue :/

Not being able to afford it isn't really the issue. Playing the game requires paying for stuff.

Likewise, the iPad thing is annoying for those of us who don't have one, but at least the rules released for iPad are available. It's your choice whether or not to purchase an iPad, or wait and see if they release them in a different format down the track


The subscription thing is a red herring, though. Suggesting that people should have had a subscription in the hope of getting rules despite GW saying they wouldn't be publishing rules like that in White Dwarf is just missing the point of what people are complaining about.


It's the rules that aren't available at all that are the real issue.

The problems for me are those:

GW sell miniatures

GW sell crap rules for use with those miniatures

GW charge a big amount of money for those crap rules

Those crap rules are changed (but not improved) each 4 or so years

When the crap rules are changed, you need to buy them all again from GW

GW claim to sell miniatures, not rules

Now, GW want to start to sell new crap rules, before every big change happens

GW miniatures are great, GW rules are crap

GW should sell miniatures and give rules for free

insaniak - oh I know, its just me not affording it was a reply to "just get the subscription"

insaniak wrote:

marielle wrote:And I am pretty sure if you contact GW they will sell you the required back issues of WD if you feel uncomfortable about using google... or GW's website...

A few posters in other threads discussing the fliers have mentioned contacting GW and being told that all backissues were gone.

Am I to believe my eyes on the shelves of Boyes or someone I have never met on the interwebz?

Shelf is different than mail/web order.


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Although, you might want to pick up those shelf issues and eBay them.

I have both of the WD's the SoB codex is in. I'd even pay if GW released the two put together into some sort of binder or something. Half the reason is I wouldn't have to flick through the crap so much to get to it and that it may indeed be available to people who have not yet learned to navigate the fourth dimension. Maybe one day someone will yet I highly doubt the thought of "oh I must really buy that issue of White Dwarf for the rules and quality material" would even cross their mind for a second. The current state of WD would very much be afraid of time travel.

If they do indeed add more rules into WD to try and bring some worthwhile content back to it, I could probably see them releasing an annual or so book with the rules in them depending on how many they release. Digital would be much easier and probably likely though. But, hopefully they realise how annoying the issue is.

chromedog wrote:I used to have a subscription to WD.

It wasn't a guarantee you WOULD get an issue, or even that you'd get it BEFORE the news-stands. Indeed, in the 7 or so years I had subscriptions for, it wasn't an uncommon thing to not get at least one issue per subscription.

After complaining to them (politely. The more steamed I get, the more polite I get. I was VERY polite.) I ended up getting a 3 month extension to the subscription per missed issue. I still didn't get those issues.

I'm not about to get an overpriced toy (ipad)* just to get that information that I should have received as a subscriber.


*I've worked in Apple's service department, it has forever soured me on EVER using one of their products, let alone forking over the readies for one.

Well, clearly, that's your own fault.
You should have had two subscriptions, or possibly even three, as a backup in case one of your catalogs wasn't delivered.

Eric

And what about those of us that did buy the WD for the Sisters dex and misplaced one of the copies. No way to get them now. I emailed GW asking if the PDF dex was going to be out up and the answer I recieved was" good idea we will think about it"

I Keep my sisters wds safe and use a printed copy for general play.

Ebay is a wonderful thing. Currently at least 2 issues of White Dwarf 390 are on there. A quick google search shows you pictures of the pages you need, for free. The information is not hard to get, just takes a bit more searching than Joe-Newbie would know to do.

Dracos, when everyone is picking apart your argument over and over again, thinking you are crazy, and accusing you of trolling, it might indicate there are flaws in your argument. Take a step back and stop trying to be right.


Right now there is a system set up by GW where new rules for flyers (like the storm talon and dakka jet) are only available to WD buyers at the month of release.

You are arguing that since that is the system in place that we should just accept it and not complain. That's not what this thread is about though. People are complaining about that, and it is a legitimate complaint. We are aware that it is GW's right to charge for whatever rules and release them for whatever limited time they want, but it is still a daft business practice.

Dracos wrote:And you guys are acting like you're surprised that GW isn't giving you shat for free. AFAIK it would be against everything we know about GW for that to happen.
...
I'd also like to get free rules, and hell why not throw some free models, paints and an apple pie in because I want it.

Go to GW's website. Pay $54 for a Space Marine Stormtalon Gunship. On that page, you'll see the following:

"The rules for this kit are available in June's White Dwarf, so make sure you pick up a copy!"

In case you need it spelled out for you, it's not people who want something for free. The people who pay $54 for the model would like to have the rules so they can play it in their games.

Sorry for the interruption. Please resume your trolling, you do seem to have a knack for it tonight.

Lormax wrote:Ebay is a wonderful thing. Currently at least 2 issues of White Dwarf 390 are on there. A quick google search shows you pictures of the pages you need, for free. The information is not hard to get, just takes a bit more searching than Joe-Newbie would know to do.

yeah, but it's not exactly within dakka's policy to encourage violating laws. Copying things like that is one of them. And feebay is also always a risk too.... then let's not forget about the starving GW employees who we are cheating from dinner by not paying directly to GW

What about GW putting rules cards in the boxes and blisters like PP does?
That would take care of those who didn't catch the latest WD, and they could still sell codexes like PP.

Y'know, this thread seems vaguely familiar, I feel I've heard this argument before...


"But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display ..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

Relapse wrote:What about GW putting rules cards in the boxes and blisters like PP does?
That would take care of those who didn't catch the latest WD, and they could still sell codexes like PP.

Back in second edition the rules used to be printed on the a datacard, sometimes right on the outside of the box.

So whenever you bought a newly released vehicle you always had the rules to go with it. Why the abandoned this policy is beyond me.

It seems like bringing it back would go a ways toward helping people out and encouraging fence sitters to buy a model they otherwise wouldn't.