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Oh, interesting. Every AR upper I own is cut like the FA example on the right. Domestically this isn't an issue, as the only legally controlled component is the Lower receiver.

I knew Colt had "AR15" specific semiauto lowers in a variety of iterations, some with different sized takedown and FCG pin holes, mostly with different internal milling, but I didn't realize they also cut the uppers differently like that, I don't think their current guns do that anymore. I've never seen one cut like that on the left in person. I know in other countries just about every part is controlled and they have their own restrictions on what parts can be configured or machined in what ways, just didn't know about the AR issue there.

TIL

Yeah, my existing upper also has that cut out, someone at the State Dept has apparently decided that exporting them is now an issue. Sigh.

Reminds me of our import barrel ban, where if a barrel was ever installed on something considered a "machinegun" under US law, it can't ever be imported even if it's just the stripped barrel, but another barrel off the same assembly line that was never installed, or that was installed in a gun that wasn't considered a "machinegun", and is otherwise identical in all respects, is 100% A-OK for importation.

Parts kit prices never recovered

I don't see anyone in the Apocalypse using full autos. Full auto fire is fun, noisy and in massed engagements useful, when ylh have a healthy supply chain keeping your guns fed. If you're humping everything you own hoping you'll get a resupply sometime, people will be using aimed, controlled fire. Semi auto fire will be the way forwards.

One fairly famous war movie adressed this when the main characters were cut off. (Blackhawk Down? We Were Soldiers?)

And I hate ITAR with a passion. As a legal gunowner getting some bits from the US with ITAR and that other rule, means my Magpul shotgun stock is restricted for export but the literal Spetznas are running Eotechs and CTR stocks on their AKs.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reminds me of our import barrel ban, where if a barrel was ever installed on something considered a "machinegun" under US law, it can't ever be imported even if it's just the stripped barrel, but another barrel off the same assembly line that was never installed, or that was installed in a gun that wasn't considered a "machinegun", and is otherwise identical in all respects, is 100% A-OK for importation.

Parts kit prices never recovered

In a similar fashion, if you have a shotgun with a stock, and cut the barrel down to 17.99 inches, you just committed a felony. If you have an identical shotgun that only has only ever had a pistol grip go ahead and slap that 10 inch barrel on it, it's perfectly legal.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reminds me of our import barrel ban, where if a barrel was ever installed on something considered a "machinegun" under US law, it can't ever be imported even if it's just the stripped barrel, but another barrel off the same assembly line that was never installed, or that was installed in a gun that wasn't considered a "machinegun", and is otherwise identical in all respects, is 100% A-OK for importation.

Parts kit prices never recovered

In a similar fashion, if you have a shotgun with a stock, and cut the barrel down to 17.99 inches, you just committed a felony. If you have an identical shotgun that only has only ever had a pistol grip go ahead and slap that 10 inch barrel on it, it's perfectly legal.

Or you go with a Mossberg Shockwave that isn't either of those things because its over 26 inches and also doesn't have a stock on it, so its not even technically a shotgun at all.

But you'd have to hate your wrists and all attempts at being practical to want one of these things.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Reminds me of our import barrel ban, where if a barrel was ever installed on something considered a "machinegun" under US law, it can't ever be imported even if it's just the stripped barrel, but another barrel off the same assembly line that was never installed, or that was installed in a gun that wasn't considered a "machinegun", and is otherwise identical in all respects, is 100% A-OK for importation.

Parts kit prices never recovered

In a similar fashion, if you have a shotgun with a stock, and cut the barrel down to 17.99 inches, you just committed a felony. If you have an identical shotgun that only has only ever had a pistol grip go ahead and slap that 10 inch barrel on it, it's perfectly legal.

Or you go with a Mossberg Shockwave that isn't either of those things because its over 26 inches and also doesn't have a stock on it, so its not even technically a shotgun at all.

But you'd have to hate your wrists and all attempts at being practical to want one of these things.

Before the Shockwave was a thing the "Shockwave Grip" was available as a separate piece through the original manufacturer. I got one and put it on a Mossberg, and it was oddly much more easy on the wrist than the "standard" pistol grip. Still uncomfortable though. I did end up putting a muzzle break on it from Whitt Machine (wonderful company with great product, highly recommended). After that shooting was a breeze and I could easily do it one-handed if I ever wanted to.

 Slinky wrote:
It's not something I had heard of, but apparently there is a relief cut in the upper to allow the auto sear to operate:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's the Brownells upper with no relief, specially for export:

https://www.brownells.co.uk/AR-15-UPPER-RECEIVER-ASSEMBLED-NO-AUTO-SEAR-CUT-Upper-Receiver-Assembled-No-Auto-Sear-Cut-Black-AERO-PRECISION-556-mm-NATO-100026423

£205?!?!? Jesus Mary and Joseph.

Yeah, geeze that is expensive. For that price I would expect at the least it to have a barrel.

Welcome to shooting in the UK

If you hadn't noticed, the Mod RiTides has set up a forum for "Everything That Counts", which as a Second Amendment thread going, if you're interested to check it out.

https://www.etcforums.com/forum/life-the-universe-and-everything/782-the-second-amendment

I saw this and my first thought is: Totally impractical, but just interesting enough to maybe tempt me. A Pistol that takes 50 round P-90 mags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAzg09vpT0g

It looks neat, definitely like something out of a scifi action flick, but given what 5.7 costs, that's a bit too spicy of a meatball for the wallet

For recreational use I'd still go with the PMR-30 in .22Mag.

Kel-Tec makes weird stuff. At least it’s always interesting

Oh dear. Another ignoramous question. Brace yersel

For those in areas that allow concealed carry, and have the appropriate license?

When you are concealed carrying, what’s your choice. And do you carry spare rounds?

As ever, despite being a Dirty Socialist Lefty, I’m not going anywhere with this. If anything, I’m looking to gain greater insight and as a result clear away the many misconceptions I have in my head as a result of absolute ignorance on the matter

My usual concealed carry (and by usual, I mean only when I go to "the big city" is a Taurus 709. Slightly odd choice, but it has been reliable. It's small and comfy, and if it gets ruined I'm out $200. It only holds 7 rounds, so yes I carry one spare mag just because, usually in my inside jacket pocket.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh dear. Another ignoramous question. Brace yersel

For those in areas that allow concealed carry, and have the appropriate license?

When you are concealed carrying, what’s your choice. And do you carry spare rounds?

As ever, despite being a Dirty Socialist Lefty, I’m not going anywhere with this. If anything, I’m looking to gain greater insight and as a result clear away the many misconceptions I have in my head as a result of absolute ignorance on the matter

For myself, when I do carry, it's typically a Ruger LCR in .357 but loaded with beefy .38 specials instead. Really it's there to deal with someone in arms reach or direct contact so I can run away. Dump the 5 rounds then throw the empty piece at 'em, and flee to safety. Personally, if I'm in a situation where I need reloads, I'm probably in a situation where a sidearm isn't going to save me.

Well, that's quite the personal question!

But I'm happy to help further your firearms-related education, Mad Doc Grotsnik.

My preferred concealed carry choice is a Glock 19, which is Glock's compact double stack 9mm. It's 15+1 (15 rounds in the magazine plus 1 in the chamber) so I normally do not carry a reload, although I am able to do so and am not opposed to it.

I have carried a variety of other guns (and occasionally still do). I used to regularly carry a Ruger LC9, which is a single stack 7+1 9mm. Because of the smaller magazine capacity I did sometimes carry an extra magazine. I also sometimes carry a Taurus TCP .380. It's 6+1 but I usually don't carry an extra magazine with that because when I'm carrying it, it's usually because I'm wearing clothing that is harder to conceal in (often in the summer, shorts and a t-shirt, that kind of thing) so I'm going for minimalism. I've also occasionally carried a Smith and Wesson 642 (J-frame, 5 shot .38 Special revolver). When I did, I sometimes carried a speed strip with an extra 6 rounds.

The decision often comes down to what I'm doing, where I'm going, and what I'm wearing. All things being equal, the Glock is my preference but I will compromise when necessary.

For legal concealed carriers, the chances of needing to use a gun in self-defense are very low, the chances of needing to use a gun in self-defense in a manner that involves actually firing the gun are lower, and the chances of needing to use a gun in self-defense and need to reload during the encounter are even lower than that, so I'm usually not overly concerned if I have to carry something with a lower capacity.

I've actually never heard of a (non-police/military) self-defense encounter in which the defender had to reload. Not saying it's never happened, it wouldn't surprise me if it has happened somewhere at sometime, but it's so incredibly uncommon and I've just never seen or heard of an example of it. If anyone here knows of one, by all means do share.

Happy to answer any additional questions you may have, Mad Doc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cuda1179 wrote:
My usual concealed carry (and by usual, I mean only when I go to "the big city" is a Taurus 709. Slightly odd choice, but it has been reliable. It's small and comfy, and if it gets ruined I'm out $200. It only holds 7 rounds, so yes I carry one spare mag just because, usually in my inside jacket pocket.

The Taurus 709 has actually always seemed like a good choice to me. I wouldn't consider it odd. I've never had one, but I've seen them and wouldn't be opposed to carrying one. Taurus makes some decent guns and the Taurus TCP I've had experience with has been reliable.

 Hordini wrote:
Well, that's quite the personal question!

But I'm happy to help further your firearms-related education, Mad Doc Grotsnik.

My preferred concealed carry choice is a Glock 19, which is Glock's compact double stack 9mm. It's 15+1 (15 rounds in the magazine plus 1 in the chamber) so I normally do not carry a reload, although I am able to do so and am not opposed to it.

I have carried a variety of other guns (and occasionally still do). I used to regularly carry a Ruger LC9, which is a single stack 7+1 9mm. Because of the smaller magazine capacity I did sometimes carry an extra magazine. I also sometimes carry a Taurus TCP .380. It's 6+1 but I usually don't carry an extra magazine with that because when I'm carrying it, it's usually because I'm wearing clothing that is harder to conceal in (often in the summer, shorts and a t-shirt, that kind of thing) so I'm going for minimalism. I've also occasionally carried a Smith and Wesson 642 (J-frame, 5 shot .38 Special revolver). When I did, I sometimes carried a speed strip with an extra 6 rounds.

The decision often comes down to what I'm doing, where I'm going, and what I'm wearing. All things being equal, the Glock is my preference but I will compromise when necessary.

For legal concealed carriers, the chances of needing to use a gun in self-defense are very low, the chances of needing to use a gun in self-defense in a manner that involves actually firing the gun are lower, and the chances of needing to use a gun in self-defense and need to reload during the encounter are even lower than that, so I'm usually not overly concerned if I have to carry something with a lower capacity.

I've actually never heard of a (non-police/military) self-defense encounter in which the defender had to reload. Not saying it's never happened, it wouldn't surprise me if it has happened somewhere at sometime, but it's so incredibly uncommon and I've just never seen or heard of an example of it. If anyone here knows of one, by all means do share.

Happy to answer any additional questions you may have, Mad Doc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cuda1179 wrote:
My usual concealed carry (and by usual, I mean only when I go to "the big city" is a Taurus 709. Slightly odd choice, but it has been reliable. It's small and comfy, and if it gets ruined I'm out $200. It only holds 7 rounds, so yes I carry one spare mag just because, usually in my inside jacket pocket.

The Taurus 709 has actually always seemed like a good choice to me. I wouldn't consider it odd. I've never had one, but I've seen them and wouldn't be opposed to carrying one. Taurus makes some decent guns and the Taurus TCP I've had experience with has been reliable.

The one thing that frustrated me was that Taurus teased us with an extended magazine with 9 rounds, and that turned into vaporware. They did, however, do a limited release of the .40 709 extended magazine. So, being the cheeky bastard I am, I bought one of those and a normal 9mm magazine. I frankensteined the parts to make myself a 9mm extended mag, and gave the .40 "normal" mag to a friend.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh dear. Another ignoramous question. Brace yersel

For those in areas that allow concealed carry, and have the appropriate license?

When you are concealed carrying, what’s your choice. And do you carry spare rounds?

As ever, despite being a Dirty Socialist Lefty, I’m not going anywhere with this. If anything, I’m looking to gain greater insight and as a result clear away the many misconceptions I have in my head as a result of absolute ignorance on the matter

My daily carry is a Glock 17 that's been cut down to G19 grip lengths, with an attached Surefire X-300U light and a G19 magazine and one spare G17 +2 magazine. I'm of a slightly different opinion to the other posters here, I don't want to ever be in the situation where I died from not being able to shoot back enough.

You can throw a whole bunch of numbers around as to why you don't need reloads and they can be countered by plenty of other numbers (accuracy of around 40% in real life gunfights, multiple assailants, multiple hits required to stop and the like) but I've heard enough stories of people emptying guns and the fight not being over. While it is a platitude, you don't get to decide then the fight ends there are only 2 things that make that happen the badguy deciding to not press the attack or them being rendered incapable of pressing the attack. Handguns are really bad fight stoppers. I want to make sure I can carry on shooting until the badguy either stops permanently or decides they've had enough. IMHO the chances of ever needing a gun are low, but you've already struck astronomical proportions of odds, do you want to bet your life on the odds you won't need more bullets too? What if your fight is one that needs 7 rounds, or 9, or 21? Averages are just that, the average, meaning there are plenty of opportunities that required less and plenty that required more.

Now I'm also exposed to a different threat level than most other posters here. I live in South Africa and our murder rate is around 35 / 100 000 while the US' is 5 / 100 000. I also work in a very sus part of town, pretty much the real-world equivalent of the Underhive. One part of the road I use runs along Khayelitsha which reported a murder rate of 100 / 100 000. And I work a pretty specific job so "find somewhere else to work" isn't possible and I travel those roads late at night, early in the morning, weekdays and weekends.

Most of our crimes are perpetrated by multiple assailants and violence is often used as an opening, but I'm also not willing to trust the altruistic nature of the criminals thanks. Besides outright murder, assault and rape are also frequent here. Often the people even doing basic hijacking have guns and are willing to use them, seeing full auto police/military or ex struggle firearms like R5 (Galils) and AK-47 (actually Chinese Type 56's) isn't too out of the ordinary.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/western-cape/rifle-ammunition-found-in-car-after-cape-town-motorist-flees-db6a1103-9c0e-4657-a5bf-b5642ff2a4f4

Having seen how badly most of the legal R5 shooters shoot I'm confident of my abilities when stacked up against criminals who've had less practice, but I definitely want all of the shots I can get, which is why my work bag has another 19 round mag and a 30 round magazine in it too. Do I honestly ever think I'm going to need almost 90 shots? No. No I don't. But like I said earlier I'm not going to be found wanting.

But my "normal" is only the mag in the gun plus one spare.

What sort of situation do you see yourself in where you'd need a second magazine? I could see something where the two magazines have different loads, (or if you were hiking and were carrying for anti-wildlife), but for civilization walking-around, wouldn't a couple shots be enough?

When I carry I carry a Glock 29, which is a "compact" (as compact as a 10mm can be) 10mm with a 10 round magazine. I don't usually carry additional magazines.

Anvildude wrote:
What sort of situation do you see yourself in where you'd need a second magazine? .., but for civilization walking-around, wouldn't a couple shots be enough?

On average, yes. However like I said averages also include times when many many more shots than "average" are used.

Multiple attackers, multiple hits per attacker to stop them and less than stellar accuracy during real world gunfights means having more is better.

There's also the possibility of a magazine failure. Your carry mag may malfunction. It isn't likely but it can and does happen. Being able to discard said magazine and get your gun working again is best. This can be something as simple as you falling to the floor and damaging or knocking off the magazine floor plate. Hope for the best but plan for the worst.


I've had family members in Joburg have a protracted fight with people who tried to hijack the son when he arrived home, remember fight or flight applies to the bad guys too they *may* run away but they may also fight back against your fighting back. Two friends of mine have run to slide lock during an attack recently. One managed to end his fight with the 8 rounds in his 1911 but he was completely dry without any reloads when the attackers decided to leave. The other ended up in hospital with his own GSW and he shot his Glock dry, reloaded and dispatched his attacker about a third of the way into his second magazine.

" The average", or even "most" is still not "all".

I don't expect to need a second magazine, I don't expect to need my gun in the first place, but it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I've never heard someone say "I'm so glad I had my low capacity gun on me instead of a bigger one".

Anvildude wrote:
What sort of situation do you see yourself in where you'd need a second magazine? I could see something where the two magazines have different loads, (or if you were hiking and were carrying for anti-wildlife), but for civilization walking-around, wouldn't a couple shots be enough?

One situation is you might have to drop a magazine on an autoloader to clear a malfunction. It's probably going to take both hands to deal with and retaining the dropped magazine is a PITA . Faster to just let it go, or Wick flick it.
Plus, nobody has ever lost a gunfight for having too much ammo that I'm aware of.

"Two is one and one is none." I have had multiple family members who worked in law enforcement that never needed to reload their revolvers....ya revolvers... during a shooting incident. They still always carried extra ammo, or magazines, if or when they carried side arms off duty or after retirement. I personally have no hard and fast rule besides a reload worth of ammo. For example when carrying a 5 shot 9mm revolver I carried a 9mm magazine from some other pistol to feed ammo out of. Sometimes a Browning HiPower mag, sometimes a smaller S&W shield magazine. That provided 9-13 extra rounds. I have never carried more than two extra pistol magazines on my person, even when I was in the military.

Anvildude wrote:
What sort of situation do you see yourself in where you'd need a second magazine? I could see something where the two magazines have different loads, (or if you were hiking and were carrying for anti-wildlife), but for civilization walking-around, wouldn't a couple shots be enough?

The only situation that would cause me to have to draw and use my pistol would be an unavoidable lethal threat. In a life and death situation there is a lot of stress and adrenaline and even well trained people are affected by it. It’s very easy to fire to slide lock in a few seconds especially when the stress and adrenaline make it nearly impossible to focus on things like counting rounds. You can easily find yourself holding an empty gun in less than a few seconds and just because you expended all your rounds doesn’t mean you neutralized the threat. Therefore it’s prudent to have a spare magazine so you can reload.

I find the spare magazine to be harder to carry concealed than the pistol so I typically have a magazine in a coat pocket or bag pouch or in the car more often than in a pants pocket or on my belt.

I won't link to it, as it isn't exactly site friendly. However if you look it up there was a police shooting from earlier in the month.

A skinny mid-40's, shady car dealer looking guy in a blazer came at a cop with a giant tree branch. The cop literally shot the guy 14 times in the chest before he even slowed down. Yeah, he died, but if that had been a knife instead of a tree branch the officer would have been severely injured too. If the guy only took 5 to the chest he might have had time to finish a deadly stabbing too.

For concealed carry I have a Walther P22. It is not my preferred but among the handguns I currently own it's the best choice. It's small, accurate, and has a good capacity because well, .22. I do usually have a second mag on the belt.

I would love to say I'm manly enough to carry my Nagant revolver, but reality is a thing.

Kayback wrote:For recreational use I'd still go with the PMR-30 in .22Mag.

I see you also are a man of taste and refinement.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Oh dear. Another ignoramous question. Brace yersel

For those in areas that allow concealed carry, and have the appropriate license?

When you are concealed carrying, what’s your choice. And do you carry spare rounds?

As ever, despite being a Dirty Socialist Lefty, I’m not going anywhere with this. If anything, I’m looking to gain greater insight and as a result clear away the many misconceptions I have in my head as a result of absolute ignorance on the matter

I generally carry whats considered a full frame combat handgun: Sig220, 226, 228, Glock 17 or Glock 22; I also have a Glock 43 subcompact but with the mag extensions that came with it from its previous owner it prints like a full size pistol. I've also been known to carry a P22 or Beretta 76; there's nothing wrong with a 22 if you put the bullets in the right places. I'm a fairly large man and I wear a lot of loose button down shirts anyway so I primarily carry OWB.
I always carry a spare magazine with semi autos, the primary source of failures in a modern handgun is magazine failure. When I used to carry a revolver I carried spare speed loaders to bring the total carried load to about 15.Actual shootings indicate that defensive handgunners shoot until the gun is empty, and not all incidents end immediately.

Hordini wrote:

I've actually never heard of a (non-police/military) self-defense encounter in which the defender had to reload. Not saying it's never happened, it wouldn't surprise me if it has happened somewhere at sometime, but it's so incredibly uncommon and I've just never seen or heard of an example of it. If anyone here knows of one, by all means do share.

I think you'd find that most CCW instructors recommend carrying at least one spare magazine not because you expect to fire them all but because they provide you with an immediate action to malfunctions and increase flexibility if you DO have to shoot more than once.

Veldrain wrote:For concealed carry I have a Walther P22. It is not my preferred but among the handguns I currently own it's the best choice. It's small, accurate, and has a good capacity because well, .22. I do usually have a second mag on the belt.

I would love to say I'm manly enough to carry my Nagant revolver, but reality is a thing.

I have nothing against carrying a P22, with Minimags I've never even had a malfunction in 1000's of rounds. Its certainly not my first choice but its viable.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I won't link to it, as it isn't exactly site friendly. However if you look it up there was a police shooting from earlier in the month.

A skinny mid-40's, shady car dealer looking guy in a blazer came at a cop with a giant tree branch. The cop literally shot the guy 14 times in the chest before he even slowed down. Yeah, he died, but if that had been a knife instead of a tree branch the officer would have been severely injured too. If the guy only took 5 to the chest he might have had time to finish a deadly stabbing too.

Indeed. Its also a good lesson about the difference between killing an assailant and stopping an assailant. It only takes 1 bullet to kill someone, but it can take dozens to stop someone from being able to hurt you. Which is why its important to have magazines with 15, 30, or more rounds for self-defense. Maybe you'll need them, maybe you won't. Are you willing to bet your life on it not taking all your ammo?

If you're gonna carry, carry as much additional ammo as you can.