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So as the title says, do people hate on them? i dont see very many in any ones army list

I used to totally use them in 4th ed. In 5th ed I liked that you could use them to make bike armies. But besides that, if you gear em right they can be wicked boss. I think a relic blade is a given for a captain. Relic blades are still the same in 6th right?

Since the unique character choices give army wide bonuses, librarians and chaplains have their own perks, they are more enticing than a stock captain.

Their lack of use indicates the other choices are more enticing for players to include in their armies, not a hate on the choice itself.

The stock captain is also very overpriced at his basic cost, the only use for him is a Bike Captain so you can run a bikers list.

I mean seriously, the captain is the same cost as the librarian who got a hood, two powers, and a force weapon.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:The stock captain is also very overpriced at his basic cost, the only use for him is a Bike Captain so you can run a bikers list.

I mean seriously, the captain is the same cost as the librarian who got a hood, two powers, and a force weapon.

This sums it up exactly.

What has already been said pretty much sums it up. Captains are fine in a vacuum, but simply due to the fact that Chaplains and Librarians (particularly Librarians due to the new powers) do more for the same cost, people generally overlook them. The only advantage of taking a Captain is that if you mount him on a bike you can take Biker Troops. It's not to say that people don't like him, I like my captain (although part of that is because I love multi part plastic HQ's since I have next to no conversion skills, and if Dark Angels are the next Marine Codex released, I have my fingers crossed for a multi-part plastic Terminator Captain/Chaplain/Librarian kit (weapon options to make all three, sorta like the Chaos Terminator Lord/Sorcerer), its just that he's boring and doesn't add anything special to your army that Chaplains and Librarians do.

So do you think they would be worth more if they could take special rules for points? IE like a captain could take Honors of the chapter for like lets say 20 pts?

djphranq wrote:I used to totally use them in 4th ed. In 5th ed I liked that you could use them to make bike armies. But besides that, if you gear em right they can be wicked boss. I think a relic blade is a given for a captain. Relic blades are still the same in 6th right?

You sure you're in CA?

Sound like you're from the Boston area.

JACK-CHOP!!!

I almost always use a plain Captain as my HQ because the one I built is lucky

Backspacehacker wrote:So do you think they would be worth more if they could take special rules for points? IE like a captain could take Honors of the chapter for like lets say 20 pts?

Not really, that would have to be included for him at his Base Cost

As I said, he's far to expensive at his base cost, it'd take at least a 20-40 point reduction to make him fully worthwhile, with an additional skill or two, that's just how much the librarian outclasses him.

Most SM players dont' take a captain, because they don't understand the value of combat tactics, and are thus eager to take a special character as their HQ (most often vulkan). Those who want something other than this kind of unit take a librarian or master of the forge instead.

Personally, I actually like the captain as he unlocks the company command squad, which is one of the best units in the codex. Not only is it hugely customizeable, and can be good at both shooting and chopping, but going around with a space marine captain with a 2+/3++FNP is just sick.

I play a captain regularly just for fun (and because it's a games day model) so he runs arti armor and thunder hammer, put him with a command squad with power weps/fists/axes and plasma pistols and then assault out of a raider...makes for a lot of fun. Not the most competitive but it certainly makes your opponent take notice.

Backspacehacker wrote:So as the title says, do people hate on them? i dont see very many in any ones army list

Captains aren't bad, but typically there is a similarly equipped SC that's only 10-15pts more that gets "Wargear X...but BETTER!" and an army wide bonus-buff.

Captains on their own are semi-decent assault units, but I find they don't have enough attacks to deal with most units. A Captain with a relic blade on the charge will kill about 2 Marines, which isn't much to justify the 130-odd points cost (plus all extras). That, and he's not that hard to kill. If he unlocked more army bonuses like a vet squad as troops, then he'd be much better. At the moment, though, he's completely outclassed by Chappies and Libbies.

He's great on a bike. On foot .. rather take a librarian.

So form what i am getting here is that the capt. at this point is just to under powered to be taken.

Personaly i run a chaplain in term armor. throw him with some TH terms in a LR and watch things get crushed when i assault haha.

I just hope that they be come more useful in the future. i mean they are supposed be the leaders of a company i would think they would be a bit stronger or on par with a chaplain or a lib.

I use them! Not saying it's a good idea but I have had no complaints. My captains (on foot. I have yet to convert one on a bike) have been performing well in battle.

I really want to take a captain as my HQ but with them lacking special abilities like honors of the chapter or lib powers, its stopping me. i mean dont get me wrong its cool how much you can customize them but i need more power for how much they cost haha.

+ i found so super cool captain models but no chaplain models :(

I certainly plan on using one in my upcoming Space Marine army (probably a termie captain), but my list is supposed to be fluffy, not uber-competitive.

My twin Lightning Claw Jump Pack Captain does pretty well paired with his Honour Guard and Sanguinary Noviate.

Back in 3rd and 4th Ed. they were great because they shifted the focus of the game away from uber characters like it was in 2nd Ed. 5th shifted back towards special characters and they are now more of a viable choice.

I could see the basic Captain getting more use now with Allies being back, especially if you want the Marines for something else than psychic powers.

I love the utility feel to the librarian with the new powers he rocks, but for me i like to lead my army into the fight with my HQ and the librarian just feels like he is lacking the survivability a captain gets (the 4++ save) and with my awesome dice rolling skills managing to cast perils at least once a game i just find i have a 1W 3+ model as my HQ who dies too easy in CC to utilise my force weapon. I am a fan of captains for the way i like to play then, Also the Command squad rocks its very fun putting 4 plasma guns in a FNP squad and rocking out.

The hated captain doesn't even twin-link the army's meltas and flamers, what a useless waste of points!!!

No but seriously, orbital bombardment is looking a lot better with the new rules on ap1 ordnance blasts vs. vehicles. People say it's unreliable but you can do a lot of damage for those 25pts.

Yeah I dont like them either. Other then bike i have never used it. Chaptermasters are worse. 50 points more for a str 10 weapon that can only be fire once?
I prefer MOTF with conversion beamer.

The overarching problem with the Captain is that without a bike, he does nothing for the army as a whole. You like Combat Tactics? Take a Librarian and you can autofail morale as you please while also having powers. Or you could take Master of the Forge and get 6 dreads to totally redefine your army structure.

The only thing a Captain can really do is unlock a unit that can be made reasonably killtastic. While not a bad thing, why do so when you can just grab some hammernators and take a force multiplier HQ? Even in the context of winning challenges, you can do better than a basic captain easily.

I certainly don't hate them, but there are generally some better options in the codex. The named characters typically give an army-wide bonus of some sort (Vulcan), and the Librarians/Chaplains grant nearly the same punch with better initial war-gear for the same price.

I've used them. They make good CC beasts with the right equipment. They certainly don't suck, but I can usually get that job down with something else. I do love command squads, which they unlock.

That's kinda amazing, I've used my two SM captains (one on bike, the other's a dual powerfist without bike) more than any other HQ I've got, for all my armies.

Of course, if you're surrounded by fools that only spam named characters like calgar and such, I wouldn't be surprised that they can't ignore how shiny a HQ seems when a cheaper one does the same job.

In a bike list, a captain on a bike is almost mandatory.

I've never had the desire to put together a bike list, though.

Vanilla Marines are what you make of them. Giving blanket statements (or asking blanket questions) like "Captains are bad" is not understanding the point of the book: It's flexible enough to build what you want. I love using Captains whenever I do since they can augment the assault power of whatever squad they're attached to. He'd be a great duelist in challenges with Artificer Armor. The special characters that trade out Combat Tactics are "BUILD AROUND ME" HQs, since they drastically augment how the book plays.

I understand that the SM codex is a very what you see is what you get. but point comparison to other Available HQs, he just does not seem worth it. I dont take named characters, they cost to much, but for the same price as a captain in term armor i can get a Chaplain with term and get honors of the chapter.

I guess What i want to know now is what do you think can be done to make the on foot captain better and more appealing with out breaking him?