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So, I was planning on going to the local tournament. But then I looked at the WYSIWYG rules (Which were verified by the TO) and it seems that it's up to your opponent if they will allow your WYSIWYG indiscretions. I was planning on going and running my Choppa Boyz as Shoota Boyz, but now I'm very wary.

Essentially, I could go pay my qualifier entry fee, qualify, pay my admission price to the tourney, get to my first round of invitational games, and get disqualified before round one even begins because my opponent yells "WYSIWYG Foul!" which is perfectly within his rights.

So, the question is, what to do now? Do I start trying to convert all these damn Choppas to Shootas (Which always look kinda bad and off balance to me) or do I sell off the army?
I'm considering selling only because painting another 120 boyz to a good standard is just...too much to bear.

And if I AM converting, does anyone have any suggestions on how to do it gracefully? So that they look "Not Stupid"?

Also, a while back KingCracker suggested just gluing a Shoota to their backs to cover WYSIWYG, but I've had people say that it's not legal. Any advice?

You're in a time crunch. I say play a list that runs with the
Choppaz OR start work on Shootaz and run the majority of
your list with the Choppaz and supplement with however
many Shootaz you can get done (either by conversion or starting
fresh).

It's not the best solution, but I think it works given your situation.

have to agree with the above post. Either try to paint/convert up new shoota boys and run a mix of both, or maybe buy/trade some already painted shoota boys?

Maybe longate their sluggas and say they are shootas?

how much time do you have?

Check with your TO to see if the Shoota on the back thing would be a legal thing at his tournament. Explain the situation to his as you have to us and maybe he'll give you a lean on it. It's worth checking out.

MightyGodzilla wrote:Check with your TO to see if the Shoota on the back thing would be a legal thing at his tournament. Explain the situation to his as you have to us and maybe he'll give you a lean on it. It's worth checking out.

I don't see why a Shoota on the back would be illegal. The figure is armed with both, it's up to you how you run him.

If you decided to go the conversion route, it might be possible to add a shoota magazine and elongate the gun/barrel slightly so the sluggas are noticably larger? You could also put smaller blades on the choppas or convert them to brass knuckles so as to draw more visual attention to the enlarged shoota/slugga.

Good luck with whatever path you take.

I modded a unit by filing down the barrel end flush with the main body of the slugga, then gluing a cylinder to the end, and a smaller short cylinder near the bottom edge, to look somewhat like an old-schoool machine gun.

My cylinders were round eraser inserts for mechanical pencils, and refills for those eraser sticks that you can click down.

Cost very little, and easily available at officemax or similar.

They cut easily, glue easily (superglue) and take paint well.

I also use the long skinny eraser-stick refills for fuel lines, hydraulic tubes etc as they are flexible

It took me less than an hour to convert 30 sluggas to shootas, not counting the painting

Yeah, I'm starting to think that conversion is the way forward, but damn they look bad.

Drill holes into the end of axes, add a clup or something to it,
Say its a gun axe.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Drill holes into the end of axes, add a clup or something to it,
Say its a gun axe.

Haha. Nice. Thanks.

Eilif wrote:I don't see why a Shoota on the back would be illegal. The figure is armed with both, it's up to you how you run him.

The TO might be a HAAC. Better safe than sorry. But I don't see why'd be illegal either.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Drill holes into the end of axes, add a clup or something to it,
Say its a gun axe.

Dammit HotSauce. You make me lol sometimes.

Just make the Shootas.

Don't sell off your Choppas, you'll probably regret it when either the 6th edition Ork Codex or 7th edition comes out and Choppas are the overpowered unit of choice again.

*Never* convert based on the rules, or you'll end up like one of those people who spraypaints their marines a new colour every time the new codex comes out.

This is one of those times where I can see both sides.

It's very easy when running a list that you know is all shootas to remember that sluggas are shootas. But I've played against that exact list (and I'm a reasonably sharp player), and damn if I wasn't shocked turn two when 180 shoota shots rained down on my army.

the point is, regardless of what the TO says, you're asking your opponents to sacrafice some of their convenience so you can play an optimized list. Most guys wont' complain, but they're still taking a hit (and often don't want to appear as TFG).

Dammit. Trapped between two MLP avatars makes me wanna ditch my shade wearin piranha for PinkyPie or DJPon3. Happy Friday everyone!

Power tools at this moment are your friends.. I have used a dremel to lop off the arms of a choppa boy and add the bits for shoota.. after a little bit of trial and error, and some green stuff.. You will never be able to tell

Hand swaps are really easy to do too, if you have a bunch of spare shoota arms. Nothing says thay have to have both hands on the gun at all times, after all

On the subject of conversion methods, A dremel is good if you have very stable hands, but you should at least get a razor saw. Those suckers will slice through plastic like butter and give you a really flat surface on which to glue the new piece. I don't even use the handle attachment as the blade in my palm gives me plenty of control.
I recommend the 42 teeth version for fast cutting.
http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/saw-blade-765693/
54 teeth is "finer" but takes longer and binds up easier without much difference in results.

You could even do it assembly line style where you paint all the magazines, hands and gun extensions and then glue them on.

My plan for my slugga mobs is to hand swap, or simple extend some barrels and try to avoid repainting entire models. As some of my models arms are pinned in via Micro Art and Kromlech bodies, I may just try to remove the gun arm completely, and paint a whole lot of shoota arms.

Its not ideal, but its what it is. Plus its still cheaper then painting ALOT more shoota boys.

Honestly, I don't imagine I'll ever EVER paint another 120 boyz. Just not fun in any way, and not worth it if that's what it takes to stay legal.
I'll either convert or just proxy them.

Personally id do as previosuly suggested and glue the other gun to the back or on the base in some fasion, IIRC its not illegal at all doesn't wyswig state you can have gear that isnt active?

5ed has this to say

‘What You See Is What You Get’

Character models in particular tend to have a lot
of options as to what weapons and wargear they
can use – given in the army list of their Codex.
The rule is that such equipment must be visually
represented on the model so your opponents can
clearly see what they are facing. This concept is
often referred to as WYSIWYG, which stands for
‘what you see is what you get’.

Of course, many gamers enjoy trying out different
combinations of wargear in different battles.
So, for example, a player might decide that for his
next game a model’s power sword will simply
count as a close combat weapon, but he will also
equip the model with melta bombs. While some
tournaments may be more strict about this kind
of thing, most opponents are happy to
accommodate a small degree of one thing
counting as another, so long as you explain
exactly who has what at the start of the game.

As you can see the only point it makes is that gear used MUST be modeled in some fashion so as not to confuse an opponent. There is nothing illegal about ataching a shoota anywhere on your models. As a courtesy it ought to be pointed out to the person your playing however.

What 5th has to say isn't really relevant anymore...

Don't glue the gun to the back, that's overmodelling and considered poor form.

I would just get a ton of shootas and start converting or run with what you have.

Weren't shootas better than choppas in 5th as well?

What 5th has to say isn't really relevant anymore...

Find me a wysiwyg reference in 6ed.

Edit: In the end its up to the TO's of course but you could also conceivable invoke "counts as".

In the long run, you could lop off all the Slugga hands and replace them with shoota hands. This would allow you to run it either way with little issue. You could say either, "I converted them. The Shoota looks more menacing than the slugga, but I'm using them as sluggas. You can tell what it's supposed to be, because he's also wielding a choppa," or, "It's a Slugga. They look cooler with two weapons. I've replaced all the sluggas with shootas. The models are WYSIWYG, since the slugga doesn't count as an off-handed weapon."
You're covered, either way.

Eric

Cry "WYSIWYG Foul!" which is perfectly within his rights

It would take a real punk to do something like that. This is especially the case when it's easy enough to tell your opponent at the start "every Ork in these big horde units is armed with a shoota". But sadly at a tourny you are more likely to run into some idiot with a WYSIWYG fetish.

I don't envy you. I've got a big Space Ork army myself and have had some WYSIWYG issues before in regards to it.

TR

Dont mod your slugga boyz, the rules might change again.

Buy new orks or run with what you have. The heavy weapons and the nob define the squad far more.

Jerseydevil posted this in a similar thread. I think it looks solid.

jerseydevil wrote:I would just extend the barrel and magazine on the slugga. I might try this just to see how it looks.

ok, I tried it and I think it looks good enough for a shoota. You could do the same to regular shootas to make big shootas.

Lt.Soundwave wrote:

What 5th has to say isn't really relevant anymore...

Find me a wysiwyg reference in 6ed.

Edit: In the end its up to the TO's of course but you could also conceivable invoke "counts as".

That's my point. The problem is that the event requires it.

pretre wrote:

Lt.Soundwave wrote:

What 5th has to say isn't really relevant anymore...

Find me a wysiwyg reference in 6ed.

Edit: In the end its up to the TO's of course but you could also conceivable invoke "counts as".

That's my point. The problem is that the event requires it.

WYSIWYG is pretty well implied in the power weapons section where it states that a model is armed with the type of power weapon it physically has on it. But, you're correct, it's not stated outright. However, most tournaments are WYSIWYG.

For my part, I support the gunblade/axe idea.

I think the TO should just make a ruling in advance...

if *all* your slugga choppa are counts as shoota, there's no confusion...

There still can be, as Polonius pointed out.

Doing this is basically putting the onus on all of your opponents to constantly remember, because you didn't want to go to the trouble of re-modeling a horde army when an edition changed.

This is something pretty much every tournament player goes through every time a new rulebook or codex for their army comes out. I've got a dozen painted vehicles for my BA. Do you know how many of them are in my list for tomorrow? Three.

The problem is exacerbated for the horde players, and we all sympathize. But that's the nature of the game, and it always has been.

Modeling shoota/choppa is confusing as all hell and totally unfair if you attempt to run them as both shootas and slugga.

Honestly AoBR boyz and shoota arms are so insanely cheap you can build shoota boyz for less than a dollar a boy.

It is very annoying when slugga boyz suddenly begin shooting as shoota boyz and as an ork player it is totally unreasonable. Besides, shoots have been king for 5+ years now as choppas have been dead since The 4th edition codex.

Shoota boyz should not be carrying a choppa. It is confusing to opponents. There is no valid way to equip an ork boy with both weapon options and for it to be fair.