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I fail to see how a lockdown is going to cost lives. Cabin Fever doesnt kill, Corona does
Now if you mean that people lost their jobs and their medical insurance and way to eat, that sounds like a problem the government should be fixing and we should as well.
But hey, as long as people die in order to get their precious haircuts and golf, i guess it is fine.

I fail to see how a lockdown is going to cost lives.

Really?

Without thinking...

- fatalities as domestic abuse worsens due to prolonged close proximity
- suicide because mental health issues escalate
- people don't seek urgent medical treatment due to poor understanding of limits

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Anyone checked the numbers? Denmark, Austria, Holland, France, and Switzerland have all started easing lockdown around 2 weeks ago or before. Any sign of spikes?

Here in Ontario, a lot of things opened up on the 19th. We just hit our 4th day in a row of increased cases. I can only imagine how bad the numbers will be in 2 weeks. We were on a serious downward trend too.

Did your number of tests increase? Our raw numbers have gone up but our rate of positive tests has gone down.

 Overread wrote:

Measuring isn't always easy. Whilst we might all know what 2m is on a tape measure, it doesn't mean we are all familiar with it as a distance in realty. That's why the government advice keeps saying things like "1bed, 2 fridges, a trolley etc..." ergo things people can relate to in their environments and life as a reference point. As gamers (esp if you ever played Warmachine MK1 or 2) you really saw this in how some people with practice could measure distances really well by eye; others couldn't until the tape measure was on the board. Reality is just the same, only most people aren't landscapers or buildres measuring stuff all the time.

'3 paces' is the commonly used guideline over here. Telling people to estimate multiple fridges just seems needlessly awkward.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Anyone checked the numbers? Denmark, Austria, Holland, France, and Switzerland have all started easing lockdown around 2 weeks ago or before. Any sign of spikes?

Here in Ontario, a lot of things opened up on the 19th. We just hit our 4th day in a row of increased cases. I can only imagine how bad the numbers will be in 2 weeks. We were on a serious downward trend too.

Did your number of tests increase? Our raw numbers have gone up but our rate of positive tests has gone down.

The opposite, actually. They've gone down. Ontario now has a huge backlog even amidst the rising numbers of infections.

It seems someone has found an excellent analogy for reopening:

Yup, except your survival rate with a Velociraptor contact is probably significantly lower than 99%...

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yup, except your survival rate with a Velociraptor contact is probably significantly lower than 99%...

That is offset by the fact that the number of velociraptors doesn't scale with the population.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yup, except your survival rate with a Velociraptor contact is probably significantly lower than 99%...

if anything the survival rate would 100% over here because let's just say that locals tend to react with guns against predators of all kinds touching livestock over here.
Even if the species is endangered.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yup, except your survival rate with a Velociraptor contact is probably significantly lower than 99%...

if anything the survival rate would 100% over here because let's just say that locals tend to react with guns against predators of all kinds touching livestock over here.
Even if the species is endangered.

Can regular citizens carry over there?

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yup, except your survival rate with a Velociraptor contact is probably significantly lower than 99%...

if anything the survival rate would 100% over here because let's just say that locals tend to react with guns against predators of all kinds touching livestock over here.
Even if the species is endangered.

Can regular citizens carry over there?

theorethically and practically yes , allbeit it is difficult to get a license to carry one just willy nilly when there is an Obligatorisches or any other shooting festival (which there are a lot ), then nobody tends to ask questions, but like with all things switzerland, does the "regular" citizen care enough to give a crap about the opinion of the federal government?
Not everywhere, considering how fast wolves and bears end up as pelts when they dare touch livestock, especially in rural cantons.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yup, except your survival rate with a Velociraptor contact is probably significantly lower than 99%...

That is offset by the fact that the number of velociraptors doesn't scale with the population.

Yeah, a direct comparison would require a new velociraptor to possibly spawn and attack anyone who comes to close to anyone else currently being attacked, or anyone being stalked by a velociraptor but so far unaware of its presence...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I fail to see how a lockdown is going to cost lives. Cabin Fever doesnt kill, Corona does
Now if you mean that people lost their jobs and their medical insurance and way to eat, that sounds like a problem the government should be fixing and we should as well.
But hey, as long as people die in order to get their precious haircuts and golf, i guess it is fine.

It kills the elderly or those with severe medical illnesses almost universally. Just like influenza for those who do not get the influenza vaccine.
The average age of death from coronavirus in Australia is 80 years old... I had read similar in the US but cannot find the article, sure young people will die, and healthy ones. Big news in my local town last year when a healthy 36 year old woman died of influenza.

The ridiculous hype generated by the media was disgusting. Did anyone in the US die from the lack of a ventilator? Last month a shortage was a huge portion of the panic, yet now The mainstream media says/writes nothing because the need never arose.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

The ridiculous hype generated by the media was disgusting. Did anyone in the US die from the lack of a ventilator? Last month a shortage was a huge portion of the panic, yet now The mainstream media says/writes nothing because the need never arose.

The answer is: we won't know. Not because "tHe MaInStReAm MeDiA!1!!" won't report on it, but because some localities that are being hit hard(Florida, the Midwest, other Republican governed states) have been found to be fudging the numbers. Couple that with either undertesting, not testing at all, or an inability to test?

It presents an issue to say definitively what was or wasn't an issue. And it wasn't just the shortage that was the panic--it was the fact that the federal stockpile supply of ventilators and PPE were being sent to countries and Republican-centric states friendly to the current administration while other states(NY and CA being notable examples) were being told that they had to "buy them for themselves".

Ah yes, the old mixed case mock. the universal sign of the straw man.

its perfectly valid to point out the media conveniently not correcting things that differ from previous things they said. if anything, its important we call it out to keep the news media at least somewhat honest.

I'd prefer the media be willing to say, look this is what we thought, but it turns out this is actually the case now we're further down the road, than to just not mention it and hope no one notices.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I fail to see how a lockdown is going to cost lives. Cabin Fever doesnt kill, Corona does
Now if you mean that people lost their jobs and their medical insurance and way to eat, that sounds like a problem the government should be fixing and we should as well.
But hey, as long as people die in order to get their precious haircuts and golf, i guess it is fine.

It kills the elderly or those with severe medical illnesses almost universally. Just like influenza for those who do not get the influenza vaccine.
The average age of death from coronavirus in Australia is 80 years old... I had read similar in the US but cannot find the article, sure young people will die, and healthy ones. Big news in my local town last year when a healthy 36 year old woman died of influenza.

The ridiculous hype generated by the media was disgusting. Did anyone in the US die from the lack of a ventilator? Last month a shortage was a huge portion of the panic, yet now The mainstream media says/writes nothing because the need never arose.

The treatment also changed substantially. Ventilators are a last ditch effort and substantial evidence is coming out that it can make things worse in a lot of ways from excessively high pressure etc. A Zinc Ionophore + Zinc can help prevent the more severe symptoms from developing if given early enough while plasma therapy is pretty effective for treating some of the more advanced cases. More recovered people means more potential sources for the antibodies needed in plasma therapy so it has a snowball effect in a positive way.

London hospitals never got overwhelmed because of several reasons.

For one thing, they set up lots of extra ICU wards in operating theatres and so on.

Another rather creepy factor is the number of people who died in care homes without ever seeing a hospital. It's something ike 5,000.

If a lot of them had been admitted, the NHS might have found something useful to do with the Nightingale Hospital at the Excel.

The ridiculous hype generated by the media was disgusting. Did anyone in the US die from the lack of a ventilator? Last month a shortage was a huge portion of the panic, yet now The mainstream media says/writes nothing because the need never arose.

More proof lockdown worked.

Not a mad fan of the deification of the nhs, but great to see communities giving support. Here in Northern Ireland our tradition mural painters have turned their hands to add to that support. Some photos here might be of interest to everyone in the rest of UK.

I do like those murals.

 skyth wrote:

The ridiculous hype generated by the media was disgusting. Did anyone in the US die from the lack of a ventilator? Last month a shortage was a huge portion of the panic, yet now The mainstream media says/writes nothing because the need never arose.

More proof lockdown worked.

Circumstantial proof

They know Captain Moore was in WWII and not on the Western Front during WWI, right..?

Those murals are cool, an interesting way to draw attention to positive causes.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
They know Captain Moore was in WWII and not on the Western Front during WWI, right..?

I think the silhouette of a soldier is used as it’s a fairly common symbol of soldiery in battle used in murals. After all they used the statue of the US troops raising the flag at Iwo Jima in another mural to symbolise the ‘battle’. No ones suggesting the drs are US marines

 Lord Damocles wrote:
They know Captain Moore was in WWII and not on the Western Front during WWI, right..?

It was originally a WW1 memorial (probably for the Somme) and they painted him over it.

 Overread wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Possibly, many seem to think that outdoor activity doesn't seem to be the main driver of it though

It depends on the nature of that outdoor activity.

Walking in the woods 2m apart fine. Basking on a crowded beach where you're lazing around shoulder to shoulder; then lining up at a busy kiosk for icecreams and then all busying in and out of the same carpark at the same time and touching the same surfaces in quick succession etc.. - totally different story and potential for exchange. Being outside in itself is not a protection, its just less likely than in an enclosed space. Furthermore crowds and dense populations of people are still a huge risk no matter if you are inside or out.

Some of the articles I have read seem to indicate outdoor transmission is unlikely (parks, walking, things like that), as you say other than when you are coming into close contact. That being said, a study in NY thought that it can be transmitted by talking (not even coughing or sneezing) within a couple of feet. A study in China indicated that the virus can transmit through ventilation systems in buildings (there was an example of an individual catching it on another floor of a restaurant). Finally, an infected person in a church in Korea they believe passed the virus to around 500 people that were in the same building (!) So, it sounds like it is extremely virulent, and if these instances are true, you don't want to be in any kind of enclosed space with someone that has the virus.

The ny study that "thought" it could be transmitted is dubious to extend to outdoor circumstances, where the dynamics of windflow are very different.

Inside cases like buses, churches, school rooms, parties, or such include a high likelyhood of either unstirred air layers that "hang out" next to the talker, or recirculated air that pumps the same virus back into the same room constantly. Neither applies to outdoor situations, where air is constantly (even if imperceptibly) stirred, and where dispersion rather than recirculation is the result.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It presents an issue to say definitively what was or wasn't an issue. And it wasn't just the shortage that was the panic--it was the fact that the federal stockpile supply of ventilators and PPE were being sent to countries and Republican-centric states friendly to the current administration while other states(NY and CA being notable examples) were being told that they had to "buy them for themselves".

What's notable about NY was the fact they never had a shortage: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/27/gov-andrew-cuomo-admits-stockpile-of-thousands-of-unused-ventilators/


They prepared for the worst, and the worst didn't happen. Which is great. https://www.npr.org/2020/05/07/851712311/u-s-field-hospitals-stand-down-most-without-treating-any-covid-19-patients

For the record, Breitbart is absolute partisan trash. Don't ever link that dumpsterfire in a reply to me again.

I'll take that into consideration.