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A remake of a ridiculously cheesy (but fun) 80s red scare movie? I'm in!
Looks like the bad guys were originally going to be China, but they changed it to North Korea: "We were initially very reluctant to make any changes, but after careful consideration we constructed a way to make a scarier, smarter and more dangerous 'Red Dawn' that we believe improves the movie," according to the producer. Translation: "China wouldn't show our movie if we made China the bad guy, and we want all that delicious, delicious Chinese movie theater money!"
Not that I have a problem with this. In fact, I guessed that the North Koreans would be the antagonists before I watched the trailer.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/10 19:52:40
Why are they always US marines on American movies? Is it just because everyone has heard of them?
I mean, the SEALs and Delta are famously good, the Rangers are decent..
The US marines let women in, have appallingly low standards of physical fitness, and do what.. 12 weeks basic training?
My nanna could pass USMC boot!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Looks like bottom water to me. Its lost the 80's bunch of kids trying to make their own way feeling, in exchange for mass produced pointless action, and not fun at all. Just a crappy film using American patriotism to get sales really. They couldn't make Homefront into a film (which this really just is, North Koreans, American occupation, Emps....and also bad), so they made this instead. I'd say that you'd be allowed to make a film like this in the 80's because of the Cold War, but nowadays we try and play friendly with other world powers, instead of playing them as faceless oppressors. ¬¬
* Again, just because their asian doesn't make them Chinese. That's the Democratic Republic of Korea's flag there. China's out of bounds, but the little ol' crazy DPRk's fair game it seems. They may have a national hate America day, but I don't think the US should be sinking to their standards.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/10 21:56:13
Maybe its me, but movies to me have to have a degree of realism.
And america getting invaded like that? With no advance warning? It takes me out of the film.
But i also ask this. Was the Marine Thor?
mattyrm wrote: Why are they always US marines on American movies? Is it just because everyone has heard of them?
I mean, the SEALs and Delta are famously good, the Rangers are decent..
The US marines let women in, have appallingly low standards of physical fitness, and do what.. 12 weeks basic training?
My nanna could pass USMC boot!
The Rangers are very good, they just have a different role than the SEALs and Delta Force.
The Marines are well known because as a whole they are the most elite branch of the US military. Yes, the Marines let women in, but although they've just started experimenting with allowing a few women volunteers to go through the Infantry Officer's Course, they don't yet allow women to have combat arms MOSs.
The Marine Physical Fitness Test is the most demanding compared to the other branches, in terms of the minimum standard that everyone in the whole branch has to meet. Some elite units in other branches have higher standards than the basic Marine PFT, like the SEALs and probably the Rangers, but if you look at Marine elite units like Recon and MARSOC, they have higher standards too. And anyway, the PFT might not be that difficult to just pass, but it's pretty challenging to get a perfect score, especially with the run. And have you seen the Combat Fitness Test? That's a whole different animal.
As far as this new Red Dawn film goes, I am intrigued. I'll likely try to see this in theaters. It does look cheesy and probably will have a lot of cliches, but I bet it will at least be fun.
Wonder why there are no Marines in Delta Force then since its open to all branches To date there is one Airforce cat and one navy former seal in Delta but that was in '01 so maybe there's a few marines in there.
Lets not get into "who's the most elite in the military" chain of thought. Each branch "elite" units have specific roles, different training, and different doctrine. Can Recon handle SF scope of operation? Can SF handle a Recon Marine unit role? Can the Seals handle SF role? Can the Rangers handle the role on a Recon Marine mission? Can the Recon Marine handle the role of the Rangers.
Marine Recon are not the most elite in SOCOM. Experience and training in the aspect of Special Operation is not there. It showed in 2007 in Afghanistan
NSDQ
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
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It's weird that a film about Americans defending their freedom would star two Australians.
I also really, really the irony that China got powerful enough so that they can't be the villain anymore. As if once you build you economy to the point where you'd be a slightly plausible villain then your economy is so big th film makers won't let you be the villain anymore. Hilarious.
Anyhow, the original is a terrible movie, but I loved it as a kid and kind of still love it now. Sure, it made no damn sense but it was for the most part a pretty honest effort at addressing that silly concept in a pretty honest way. Well, an honest look at how some right wing nutjobs would look at the subject. Which, as an 8 year old war nerd, was just about the perfect movie for me.
I mean, the Wolverines killed a fairly ridiculous number of Russians (especially considering these Russians were meant to be competent enough to otherwise successfully engage the US army), but they did it with pretty basic guerilla tactics, and there was always a feeling that they were just a minor cog in a global war. In this remake it looks like they've got some super weapon that I'm sure the Wolverines will heroically capture despite losing most of their unit, and it'll be recognised that while the war went on this was the turning point. Blergh.
Hordini wrote:The Marines are well known because as a whole they are the most elite branch of the US military. Yes, the Marines let women in, but although they've just started experimenting with allowing a few women volunteers to go through the Infantry Officer's Course, they don't yet allow women to have combat arms MOSs.
Uh, the marines aren't an elite branch. They're general recruitment.
I mean, you can say they've got high physical standards, but that isn't what elite means. Elite means you've been selected from among general recruitment units. So SEALs are elite because they're chosen from among Navy volunteers, and Rangers are elite because they're chosen from among Army volunteers, but Marines are not.
I mean, honestly, you just can't create a force 200,000 strong and have the standards needed to make it a truly elite force. Humanity doesn't produce that many elite individuals.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/11 01:39:05
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Hordini wrote:The Marines are well known because as a whole they are the most elite branch of the US military. Yes, the Marines let women in, but although they've just started experimenting with allowing a few women volunteers to go through the Infantry Officer's Course, they don't yet allow women to have combat arms MOSs.
Anyhow, the original is a terrible movie, but I loved it as a kid and kind of still love it now. Sure, it made no damn sense
Had a hell of a cast though
incase some need a refresher
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Doesn't look nearly as good as the original.
notprop wrote:This looks cliched ridden and contrived just like the original - I think I'm gonna love it!
Looks like the Chinese are the bad guys, shame I'll miss the random south American/russian villains that made up team evil before.
Go Wolverines!
the baddies were going to be the PRC but then the studio realized they'd be blacklisted from the Chinese market forever.
So all the PRC flags were photoshopped into DPRK flags.
So I'm boycotting them for cowardice. How can I watch a film about defending freedom when the creators backed down at the first sign of trouble?
It really speaks about the target audience when they can change the national of the invaders at whim and think nobody would notice. No, they're just the anonymous Asian bad guys. They think that making them into North Koreans, the black sheep of the Asian world, would still be less offensive than having them as Chinese? Its still going to offend Chinese people, it just makes the guys who're making the film seem dumber than they're already coming across. =/
If anyone were to take this seriously it could piss a lot of the asian market off. I mean its saying that their nationalities are interchangeable. ¬¬
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/11 01:51:49
Jihadin wrote:Wonder why there are no Marines in Delta Force then since its open to all branches To date there is one Airforce cat and one navy former seal in Delta but that was in '01 so maybe there's a few marines in there.
Lets not get into "who's the most elite in the military" chain of thought. Each branch "elite" units have specific roles, different training, and different doctrine. Can Recon handle SF scope of operation? Can SF handle a Recon Marine unit role? Can the Seals handle SF role? Can the Rangers handle the role on a Recon Marine mission? Can the Recon Marine handle the role of the Rangers.
Marine Recon are not the most elite in SOCOM. Experience and training in the aspect of Special Operation is not there. It showed in 2007 in Afghanistan
NSDQ
I never said that Marines were the most elite in SOCOM. I would argue that Army and Navy SOCOM units are probably more elite than MARSOC, at least in the sense of them being more well-known and having a longer history of SOCOM experience. All I'm saying is that the Marines, as a branch compared to the other branches (not comparing individual elite units), the Marines have a reputation as being more elite due to having the highest general physical standards, longer basic training and a certain amount of infantry training for all members (even ones who aren't in combat arms) beyond what the other branches do. I am not saying that other branches do not have units that are just as elite if not more so than Marine units, and I'm not saying that Army infantry or combat arms can't hang with Marine infantry or anything like that either. Just that on a branch level, the Marines have higher minimum standards.
sebster wrote:
Hordini wrote:The Marines are well known because as a whole they are the most elite branch of the US military. Yes, the Marines let women in, but although they've just started experimenting with allowing a few women volunteers to go through the Infantry Officer's Course, they don't yet allow women to have combat arms MOSs.
Uh, the marines aren't an elite branch. They're general recruitment.
I mean, you can say they've got high physical standards, but that isn't what elite means. Elite means you've been selected from among general recruitment units. So SEALs are elite because they're chosen from among Navy volunteers, and Rangers are elite because they're chosen from among Army volunteers, but Marines are not.
I mean, honestly, you just can't create a force 200,000 strong and have the standards needed to make it a truly elite force. Humanity doesn't produce that many elite individuals.
I know what the US Marines are. A lot of it has to do with how people view them, as well as how they view themselves. I'm not saying the Marines as a whole are elite like the SEALs are elite, but elite doesn't just mean that you have to be selected from general recruitment units. People consider Marines elite because as a branch their minimum standards are higher and their basic training is longer, as well as the whole "every Marine is a rifleman" mindset and the longer training that goes along with that that other branches don't have.
Just curious. Hordini you speaking from experience or 2nd hand knowledge?
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
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Jihadin wrote:Just curious. Hordini you speaking from experience or 2nd hand knowledge?
I'm speaking from being familiar with the physical fitness requirements of the different branches and the length of their basic training and the supplemental infantry training that non-infantry Marines go through (that is, Marine Combat Training).
I'm not saying that other branches don't have high standards or that the elite units of other branches are less elite than comparable Marine units. In fact, I said that the SOCOM units from other branches are likely at a higher standard than Marine units due to the Marines only entering the SOCOM community within the past few years with MARSOC.
If you're asking if I'm in the military, I'm not, but someone doesn't have to be in the military to know what the physical standards for each branch is, and how long their basic training is and that all non-infantry Marines receive supplemental infantry training (Marine Combat Training) that other branches don't do as part of their basic training pipeline.
Is what I'm saying really that controversial? I'm only posting information that is readily available to anyone with an internet connection. I'm not saying that the other branches aren't good or just as important or that the Army isn't a force to be reckoned with. If you took anything I said to be disrespectful towards the other branches, I absolutely did not mean it that way. I have family members who have served in all five branches, and I wouldn't intentionally disrespect any of them.
I know if a Marine goes to another branch of the service that they don't have to go through their boot camp like someone coming into the Marines from another branch would.
I was in the Marine reserves way long ago and my plabtoon in bootcamp had a rough attrition rate of 32%.
I'm not sure what the percentages were in the other branches at the time, but I remember we'd have people breaking down and crying, trying to desert by climbing the fence between MCRD and the airport or just breaking down, physicaly unable to take anymore.
None of the branch's PFTs are hard, the only argument you could make for the USMC PFT being hard is that it is actually difficult to max out the run if you don't give a feth about seriously running. Doing 100 crunches in 2 minutes is easy, many people were doing 120+, and the record is something like 200+. Its also a stupid test because unless crunches are done perfectly they work your hip flexors more than they work your abdominal muscles. The primary function of the core is stabilization, not bending to do crunches or sit ups.
20 pull ups are relatively easy if you put forth any effort into them. It shouldn't take you more than 6 to 12 months to be able to max out pull ups if you put forth the effort.
The 18:00m requirement for a 3 mile run also isn't particularly difficult for anyone that is a serious runner. The best mile I ever ran was 5:30 in 8th grade which is fething slow by any serious standards and I still finished the run in 20:15. Serious runners can do it in under 16:00.
All of the PFTs are kind of pointless though as they do not analyze how your body can perform in combat, which is why the USMC added the Combat Fitness Test. It should be easy for some 5'6" 140lb guy to max the PFT, but that doesn't mean his body will be able to handle the rigors of combat as well as some 6'+, 220lb muscle head who can't run a sub 7minute mile.
TLDR: The point is you can't throw around the PFT to claim one branch is more elite than another branch. The only thing that makes the USMC more 'elite' is the longer boot camp, greater emphasis on discipline and and junior NCO/enlisted responsibility, and the emphasis that every Marine is a rifleman. All of that is really irrelevant as there is something like a 90% pass rate for boot camp. You have to actively quit and try to get thrown out to fail boot camp or suffer a serious injury. Don't let the recruiting adds trick you into thinking the entire branch is on par with the Rangers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:I know if a Marine goes to another branch of the service that they don't have to go through their boot camp like someone coming into the Marines from another branch would.
I was in the Marine reserves way long ago and my plabtoon in bootcamp had a rough attrition rate of 32%.
I'm not sure what the percentages were in the other branches at the time, but I remember we'd have people breaking down and crying, trying to desert by climbing the fence between MCRD and the airport or just breaking down, physicaly unable to take anymore.
When was this?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/11 04:43:53
And if you're drinkin' well, you know that you're my friend and I say "I think I'll have myself a beer" 
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