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Ok so i don't know any of the new rules for 6th as i havent got the BRB yet (waiting for the starter set for the mini rulebook) but i was wondering whether Punisher cannons are useful now? I know that Punisher cannons were generally scorned in 5th for lacking Ap and not having great range or needing Pask for the BS boost.
Has anything changed for the PC now in 6th?


EDIT: No longer about Punisher tactics. Now just general punisher discussion.

I think they would be excellent in an anti infantry/flyer roll even at BS1 20 str5 shots are gonna yield some 6's and against infantry you will be putting down a punishing amount of wounds

On a Vulture, yes. But that's because

A. It flies. Always tight

B. It has strafing run (+1BS and pinning)

Otherwise, pretty meh.

can i use vultures in a normal 40k games ?

Vulture is also twin-linked. It is a staple in my IG lists now, perfect for picking off stragglers, one-man units or that last hull point.

Rules for the vulture are found in Imperial Armor: Aeuronautica. It is marked as official for standard 40k games, but forgeworld is unfortunately a hot topic in many environments, so you should check with your group or with your local TO's.

My experience is that it pays of to inch imperial armour in slowly, starting with strict rules, then relaxing them as people get used to it a little at a time. After a while, they will realize that FW just adds to the game, and that nothing FW really doesn't break the game in any way. Codex stuff is usually better than FW stuff, nothing FW produces comes close to the vendetta in effectiveness for example.

As far as GW is concerned, all the FW units marked "40k approved" are legal to use on the table top.

What your local group is concerned with might be another matter entirely.


As for the actual Punisher cannon, its better just because Glancing vehicles to death is viable now and that Infantry based armies are going to be more common.

However, its still not as good as the other varients.


Bottom line is, its not a bad choice. Its just not a particularly good choice either.

As for the topic at hand, with the addition of fliers to the game, they became vaguely worthwhile. A bolter boat punisher puts down an average of 5 S5 hits on a flier per round of shooting, and on a chassis that most fliers can't just instantly liquefy.

Of course, it doesn't work against storm ravens or vendettas, which is really its achilles heel. An anti-flier weapon that doesn't work on the two most popular fliers.

That said, I think it's gotten good enough that you no longer need to feel like a total idiot for fielding one.

Ok so im getting the impression that while better they still aren't great. What would be a better equivalent to a Leman Russ w/Punisher?

A bolter boat exterminator or a whole bunch of HWSs are the only real analogues in the codex.

It'll be excellent for another purpose as well - grounding a flying MC. Though that's a very specific use so you'd have to know your opponent was taking more than 1, or a light flier as well.
I keep hearing its "downside" of no AP, and I think it's absolute poppycock. The fact it's got no AP is of no consequence when you consider that all those lasgun shots, with all their fancy orders rerolls, also have no AP and are only S3 - yet they form a decent firing line backbone that supports the army. Why can't a Punisher do more of the same?

Now ya see thats my train of thinking as well. Lasguns by themselves aren't great but bring a lasgun and 30 of his buddies and you start getting somewhere. Take a Punisher and 3 Heavy Bolters and i figure you can make up for lack of AP by just drowning a squad in withering a amount of fire.
So pretty much a Leman Russ Punisher is going to be much more at home fighting Nids (swarms and MCs) or an army with a lot of fliers then.

I can't think of any other weapon that off the bat will pump out 20 shots.

sure the Vulcan mega bolter does 15 at higher streangth and AP but thats Apoc.

I found against light armor (like rhinos, Sentinals, anything with armor 11 or 10) or hordes of troops or any kind of infantry for that matter the punisher can work. Sure other tanks can fill its role as well but the Punisher uses the "Quantity over Quality" idea.

mass glances against light armor (or certin aircraft) shred then to dust. If you give them alot of wounds its only a matter of time before they fail their armor save. so the punisher can work.

 Engine of War wrote:
I can't think of any other weapon that off the bat will pump out 20 shots.

Fleshborer hive for T'Fex. 20 S5 shots. Problem is that they are BS2. Most people find that they are really useless, even with the fact that the T'Fex can overwatch with it.

I've just asked in another thread about using Pask as an upgrade for a punisher cannon tank to find out if he benefits from the precision shot rule on the roll of a 6

So far people seem to think that it does, so its probably worth play testing through and seeing what happens, he's going to roll 3.5 6's per turn just with the main hun, so will be able to pick out specific weapons/characters in units relatively easily!

 Gloomfang wrote:

 Engine of War wrote:
I can't think of any other weapon that off the bat will pump out 20 shots.

Fleshborer hive for T'Fex. 20 S5 shots. Problem is that they are BS2. Most people find that they are really useless, even with the fact that the T'Fex can overwatch with it.

BS3.

Still useless.

 Super Ready wrote:
It'll be excellent for another purpose as well - grounding a flying MC. Though that's a very specific use so you'd have to know your opponent was taking more than 1, or a light flier as well.
I keep hearing its "downside" of no AP, and I think it's absolute poppycock. The fact it's got no AP is of no consequence when you consider that all those lasgun shots, with all their fancy orders rerolls, also have no AP and are only S3 - yet they form a decent firing line backbone that supports the army. Why can't a Punisher do more of the same?

But nobody buys a Leman Russ and goes "damn, if only I could stick 30 lasguns to this."

The key problem with the punisher tank itself I think, is that you're using an awesome chassis, on a weapon that I would rather have access to elsewhere. For example, I would LOVE a hellhound variant with a punisher cannon mounted on it. Would be more useful, fun to use, and have a purpose, as it would fill an interesting niche in the army as a rapid response/flanking threat to light vehicles, infantry, and fliers all at the same time. I'd also rather have it on a vulture, which flies, is harder to hit, and is TWIN-LINKED.

Basically, the punisher cannon itself is awesome, it's just mounted on an inefficient platform. Trust me, give me punisher cannons ANYWHERE else in the IG codex and I'll take so many it won't even be funny.

Well, and there's an important difference between 5th ed punishers and 6th ed punishers - you can now glance vehicles to death.

Before, you compared punisher cannons to lasguns, now you compare punisher cannons to heavy bolters. If someone gave you the choice of taking a leman russ with 10 lasguns, you'd probably tell him to go to hell, but if you asked if he'd like a russ that came with 7 heavy bolters...

... well, that's a different story.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:


Basically, the punisher cannon itself is awesome, it's just mounted on an inefficient platform. Trust me, give me punisher cannons ANYWHERE else in the IG codex and I'll take so many it won't even be funny.

This.

I swear, the punisher is my favorite weapon in 40k, but that's because the Vulture took one look at the Tank variant, said "Well...there's your problem, you only have one big spinny death-gun." So Imperial Navy engineers slapped two of those bad boys on a sick flyer with BS4.

It gives me mangasms.

And it practically oozes cheese.

I love the Punisher cannon, it manages to do some serious damage every time I've brought it out.

Now I've been running it with Pask, not cheap, but it just throws out soooo much fire especially if you can sit still and fire it, that effective S6 against vehicles is amazing.

Now the downside is you're paying over 200 points for it, so no it's not super competitive, but devastating none the less.

rigeld2 wrote:

Fleshborer hive for T'Fex. 20 S5 shots. Problem is that they are BS3. Most people find that they are really useless, even with the fact that the T'Fex can overwatch with it.

BS3.

Still useless.

Typo.
I don't think I have met anyone who has actully fielded one though. Not that I think the T'Fex is all that great of a unit to start with.

God now I want to write up rules for a punisher hellhound variant. I shall name it, the spinny deathtank of doom

Or it would be interesting to have an artillery version.

165 points. AV12/10. Has two punisher cannons on it. Can't be taken in squads.

Special rule that if more than six 1's are rolled in any given round of shooting, any number in excess strip a HP off as the vehicle shakes and jostles itself to death.

 Ailaros wrote:
Or it would be interesting to have an artillery version.

165 points. AV12/10. Has two punisher cannons on it. Can't be taken in squads.

Special rule that if more than six 1's are rolled in any given round of shooting, any number in excess strip a HP off as the vehicle shakes and jostles itself to death.

Oh...oh god.

20...no, 40 Str5AP- shots at BS3????

My brain...

That basically instantly wrecks itself turn 1.

It would be sort of like a deathrstrike.

But with bullets.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
God now I want to write up rules for a punisher hellhound variant. I shall name it, the spinny deathtank of doom

The punisher cannon is essentially 30 points more than the main battle cannon. The Devil Dog essentially has a shorter range vanquisher cannon but less AV for 30 points less. Say the Punisher Chimera is 150 pts, AV12,12,10?
You could get a whole leman russ for that, and it's taking up valuable vendetta spots. Any less and it seems like a steal.

Blaggard wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
God now I want to write up rules for a punisher hellhound variant. I shall name it, the spinny deathtank of doom

The punisher cannon is essentially 30 points more than the main battle cannon. The Devil Dog essentially has a shorter range vanquisher cannon but less AV for 30 points less. Say the Punisher Chimera is 150 pts, AV12,12,10?
You could get a whole leman russ for that, and it's taking up valuable vendetta spots. Any less and it seems like a steal.

But you have a chimera with a FREAKING MINIGUN THE SIZE OF A CANNON ON IT!!!!!!!!!

I'd buy 9 and field them just to troll everything.

That, or I'd buy that beautiful punisher artilery thing ailaros came up with. It'd be so beautiful.

 Ailaros wrote:


It would be sort of like a deathrstrike.

But with bullets.

SOMEONE SIG THIS

(Mine is too full of TFG)

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

But you have a chimera with a FREAKING MINIGUN THE SIZE OF A CANNON ON IT!!!!!!!!!

I'd buy 9 and field them just to troll everything.

That, or I'd buy that beautiful punisher artilery thing ailaros came up with. It'd be so beautiful.

I'm starting to sense a "Yo Dawg" thing going on here...

But lets see here, 9 Hellhound mounted Punisher cannons (From now on lets call this new Hellhound variant the "Cereberus" shall we?) is 180 str5 shots.
Add another 180 str 5 shots for the 9 Leman Russ Punishers that will be obviously have to be fielded in conjuntion with the 9 Cereberus for a total of 360 Strength 5 Ap- Range 36" shots.


COME AT ME GREENTIDE!

This thread is now about what the most awesome platform to mount a punisher cannon would be.

I vote scout sentinels!

Harker.

Or Marbo. He's RIGHT BEHIND YOU... WITH A PUNISHER CANNON!