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So, we probably all read the last big FAQ bunch (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2&_requestid=1773927)

So, what do you think are implications for tyranid? How will/should our tactics change?
Hive guard got boosted out of the blue, but they were must-include already.
Mawloc got robbed of ability to hit fliers, but it wasn’t very useful anyway.
Look out sir changes are big one, robbing us of ridiculous wound distribution schemes with units of 3fex+prime/warriors+prime, making fexes go back on the shelf IMO.
What else?

I don't think it changed LOS! to horribly.

[ EDIT: this has now been corrected in Rule book FAQ 1.0a]

The clean up to HoW, de-cheese certain Shrike builds but did not hurt them any.

The new standard Flyrant build is probably going to be double TL devourers thanks to the Swooping FMC's now getting Skyfire.

Yeah, I've shelved my Flyrant with ScyTal + LW/BS.
I've decided to drop Hive Guard and go full Nidzilla - Flyrant, 4 Carnifexes, 2 Tervigon's and 20 termagants... maybe add 3 biovores for some barrage sniping.

barnowl wrote:
The new standard Flyrant build is probably going to be double TL devourers thanks to the Swooping FMC's now getting Skyfire.

I still think we are going to see more TL Dev and Lash/Bone thant 2x TL Dev. Vector strike is just a much better attack than TL Dev against flyers. Bone swords lets you ID and the lash means that you get to hit first. Why pay for a second gun you will never shoot?

At least now (if you have a little luck rolling for powers) you have a decent shot at dropping 1 flyer per turn with a Flyrant.

 Gloomfang wrote:
Vector strike is just a much better attack than TL Dev against flyers.

d3+1 hits at STR6 AP3 or 6 TL skyfire shots at STR6 AP-.
For a Tyrant, 6 TL is 3 hits, plus 1-2 more from the re-roll. Same STR, same AP (against vehicles) and the Devs have range for if you can't get a good Vector over the flyer.

In other words, I disagree with your assessment.

the shooting attack lets you get back armor too which can be a life saver when fighting ig

rigeld2 wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Vector strike is just a much better attack than TL Dev against flyers.

d3+1 hits at STR6 AP3 or 6 TL skyfire shots at STR6 AP-.
For a Tyrant, 6 TL is 3 hits, plus 1-2 more from the re-roll. Same STR, same AP (against vehicles) and the Devs have range for if you can't get a good Vector over the flyer.

In other words, I disagree with your assessment.

I like to get the flyrant swooping in the middle of opponent's area and abuse of the vector strike. Having skyfire, 6 TL shots is enough for me and 12 shots being overkill.
I tend to agree with Gloomfang , but YMMV and depends of your playing style.

I also use him as a character/wargear hunter. Precision Shot is always fun.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Vector strike is just a much better attack than TL Dev against flyers.

d3+1 hits at STR6 AP3 or 6 TL skyfire shots at STR6 AP-.
For a Tyrant, 6 TL is 3 hits, plus 1-2 more from the re-roll. Same STR, same AP (against vehicles) and the Devs have range for if you can't get a good Vector over the flyer.

In other words, I disagree with your assessment.

I forgot to take TL into account. However for the 1 extra shot hitting you are losing the lash whip and bonesword and spending a lot more points. I still think that the extra hit is not worth the loss of ID and reducing models to I1 in CC.

I try to avoid CC with my Flyrant. That's what the Fexes and Tervigons are for. My Flyrant is for shooting.

 Gloomfang wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Vector strike is just a much better attack than TL Dev against flyers.

d3+1 hits at STR6 AP3 or 6 TL skyfire shots at STR6 AP-.
For a Tyrant, 6 TL is 3 hits, plus 1-2 more from the re-roll. Same STR, same AP (against vehicles) and the Devs have range for if you can't get a good Vector over the flyer.

In other words, I disagree with your assessment.

I forgot to take TL into account. However for the 1 extra shot hitting you are losing the lash whip and bonesword and spending a lot more points. I still think that the extra hit is not worth the loss of ID and reducing models to I1 in CC.

If I'm taking a flyrant then I'm not really looking at getting him into CC in any great rush. Anti-flyer and shooting up transports is generally his role. If you want to CC stuff then the balance is difficult as if you kill it in one turn you are then open to shooting at normal BS, but if too strong you get tied up and the tyrant only has 4 wounds,which is lower than say trygons, tervigons etc. Perfect target is one that loses in 2 turns and won't take more than a wound off you.

For CC, even though slower, the foot tyrant is better in this role as he has the ability to take a 2+ armour save and tyrant guard to saok you wounds on the way in.

 ruminator wrote:

If I'm taking a flyrant then I'm not really looking at getting him into CC in any great rush. Anti-flyer and shooting up transports is generally his role. If you want to CC stuff then the balance is difficult as if you kill it in one turn you are then open to shooting at normal BS, but if too strong you get tied up and the tyrant only has 4 wounds,which is lower than say trygons, tervigons etc. Perfect target is one that loses in 2 turns and won't take more than a wound off you.

For CC, even though slower, the foot tyrant is better in this role as he has the ability to take a 2+ armour save and tyrant guard to saok you wounds on the way in.

The issue isn't planning on using a flyrant to assault. The issue is that unlike normal flyers FMCs can get grounded. A solid anti-flyrant tactic I am starting to see is grounding them and then hitting them with a tarpit unit to tie them up in CC or hitting them with something that has AP3 weaponry or better to kill it.

Honestly it is one of the reasons I don't take Flyrants very often. They can be grounded and chopped up far to easy.

 Ratliker wrote:
So, we probably all read the last big FAQ bunch (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2&_requestid=1773927)

So, what do you think are implications for tyranid? How will/should our tactics change?
Hive guard got boosted out of the blue, but they were must-include already.

Not really a boost, just a clarification. The previous ruling that you only got cover via touching and nothing else was pretty clear.

Mawloc got robbed of ability to hit fliers, but it wasn’t very useful anyway.

As much vitriol as was generated from the idea its funny that few bothered to try it. I know I didn't and I started the YMDC thread regarding it. They'll always be third tier while you can take cover saves from their attack. Not to mention placing them can be problematic due to the poorly thought-out rules.

Look out sir changes are big one, robbing us of ridiculous wound distribution schemes with units of 3fex+prime/warriors+prime, making fexes go back on the shelf IMO.

It's not as effective but wounds can still be spread somewhat. If models are the same distance from the IC, you randomize. Whatever gets selected is the closest for that particular attack but if another unit fires you start over and have a chance to wound another model instead. Again not near as useful but worth a second look.
Those carnifexes are also still exceptional shooting platforms.

What else?

FMCs getting skyfire has already derailed the thread so not much else to add. For what its worth I'd stick with my spitter/whip&bonesword setup (cheaper and chance i'll end up with shooty power anyways, but its not an easy choice by any means).

FMCs not being bouncy balls is a bit of an issue from a durability standpoint but I think either way grounded is pretty harsh and a big reason why I am not enamored with FMCs regardless.

Trygon Primes are now characters. Personally I think its a boost. Sure, there's blobs where you will be stuck killing sgts for phase after phase but for the most part being able to call out and/or precision sgts and getting 12 shot gun with precision strikes is pretty nifty. I already kinda like what primes bring to the table in 6ed, this just makes that extra 40 points that much more tempting.

Lashwhip clarification ended up coming down on the weaker side. Its how I played it so not a big deal to me but would have but strong had they worked as soon as someone based.

Tervigon's weren't nerfed by the smash clarification so that's good. Makes crushing claw and warp speed tervigons terrors.

Overall I don't think there was anything really terrible which is always good when GW FAQs Tyranids.

 Ratliker wrote:
So, we probably all read the last big FAQ bunch (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3400019&multiPageMode=true&start=2&_requestid=1773927)
Hive guard got boosted out of the blue, but they were must-include already.

Just RAW.

Mawloc got robbed of ability to hit fliers, but it wasn’t very useful anyway.

That was silly and clearly not intended, c'mon. You see this as robbed?

Look out sir changes are big one, robbing us of ridiculous wound distribution schemes with units of 3fex+prime/warriors+prime, making fexes go back on the shelf IMO.
What else?

You would rather Driago-wing and nob bikers exist in all their broken glory? I can say as a GK player, this is for the best, for everyone.

Besides, a FAQ ruling you missed is that Smash only halves your attacks before other rules. So Carnifex with crushing claws that smashed on the charge would get what, 2+2+d3 attacks, at str 10 with armor bane? I know they're str 9 to start, but that ain't bad. I dunno if it means you should take them, but yeah, not bad.

I personally have been shelving my Hive Guard for a long while now. Instead I've been running more of the Swarm theme I think Tyranids were meant to be played.

In a list I've used recently I ran 90 Hormagaunts and 40 Genestealers (Infiltrating, outflanking), with a unit of Termagaunts strung out in a line for a string of cover save.. It was terrifyingly effective.

Also, I've been trying out a triple Mawloc list, and against gunline armies, especially IG, it was really disruptive for them.

The last game I managed with deepstriking 3 Mawlocs to destroy 2 tanks just by pushing them off the table/impassable terrain, destroy a Chimera with an entire unit of vets inside, and destroy a heavy weapons squad. On top of that, their entire Gunline was completely disrupted. Of course, the Mawlocs will probably die next turn, but they soak up tons of firepower, and if they don't die, then hey. That's a plus.

I also used the Flyrant with dual Devs. I found it really fun. I ran him along side another Tyrant with LW/BS and Armoured Shell. People tend to forget about the Tyrant on the ground until he gets into CC!

Also, what is armour bane and who gets it?

 HiveFleetCollossus wrote:
Also, what is armour bane and who gets it?

2d6 to pen, and no one (in the Tyranid boox).
MCs that use Smash attacks get a re-roll to pen, but it's not the same thing.

Mur, Str 10 with "re-roll armor pen", not armor-bane. you're gonna pen almost anything, is the point.

Does re-roll armor pen mean you re roll the damage chart result, or re roll when you're hitting the actual vehicle?

 HiveFleetCollossus wrote:
Does re-roll armor pen mean you re roll the damage chart result, or re roll when you're hitting the actual vehicle?

Re-roll what you add to your streangth to see if you pen or glance.

Fex's should have been shelved anyway with the release of the current dex.
6th has simply hammered that in even more.

Roughly 1/4 cheaper than a trygon, but the trygon is faster, better WS, W, I and A, not to mention the prime upgrade making it independant.
It also has range on it, not that its really needed.

The only reason to run a fex was for the S9, which due to smash attacks, is now pretty useless for it.


Granted, some may like to spam fex's, but the problem is to do so, you will be at or over the 2,000 points mark.
Double up on force org and spam trygons instead

It is a shame though, fex's were allways the mainstay of nids, but now seem useless for any role in the game.
Maybe if they were back as they used to be (113 points for a kitted out screamer-killer) then i would take them.
But points wise, trygon wins every time in my books.





Edit:

Just read through the FAQ again since i was half asleep last time.
Hive guard really have become beasts now!
The fact that they ignore jink really helps to start with.
The fact they ignore things like KFF aswell helps to no end aswell with wagons and kanwalls.
Really glad ive got 6 now as i think ill be taking them more often over thropes

If you really think that the screamer killer is useless in 6th I will assume you haven't used them. If people want I canwrite up a tactica on how to use them as they are much better than people give them credit for.

 Gloomfang wrote:
If you really think that the screamer killer is useless in 6th I will assume you haven't used them. If people want I canwrite up a tactica on how to use them as they are much better than people give them credit for.

I agree. A pair in a brood with an attached Prime is very deadly, especially when paired with a venomthrope and a tervigon with catalyst giving the whole deathstar FNP and 5+ cover.

Attached Prime what? Warrior?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Attached Prime what? Warrior?

Tyranid Prime. One of the few IC's in the Tyranid codex.

 Gloomfang wrote:
If you really think that the screamer killer is useless in 6th I will assume you haven't used them. If people want I canwrite up a tactica on how to use them as they are much better than people give them credit for.

Start a thread on that.
Scratch that. Start a thread on Carnifexes in general to see how people get the most use out of them. I'd discuss the crap outta that.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Attached Prime what? Warrior?

Tyranid Prime. One of the few IC's in the Tyranid codex.

What advantages are there to putting a Prime in with carnifexes? He can't grant the W/BS bonus, he's just there for the synapse?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Attached Prime what? Warrior?

Tyranid Prime. One of the few IC's in the Tyranid codex.

What advantages are there to putting a Prime in with carnifexes? He can't grant the W/BS bonus, he's just there for the synapse?

He is an IC so you can put him in front and LOS wounds to the fexes. A little harder to do post FAQ, but with premesuring you can still randomly allocate some damage off of him and on to the fexes. The configuration is usually called a Fexstar and involves 2-3 Dakkafexes and a Prime (usually all with Regeneration).

I sti don't see the point. I drop fexes in pods and wreak havoc in the back 12 and it works fine.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
I sti don't see the point. I drop fexes in pods and wreak havoc in the back 12 and it works fine.

That works too. The big reason to run a Fexstar is that it is a single unit and able to be buffed to the point of insanity. People like to put Catalyst, Endurance, TK Dome, and/or Inviability on them. Basically is is a big fire magnet that is pretty hard to put down if run properly.

I personally am not a fan, but it is still a valid tactic. I'm much more of a drop pod to the rear of the army guy myself too.

EDIT: One of the big reasons the Fexstar is popular is that the major netlists (Driagowing for example) has a hard time dealing with it. With a few venomthropes, an OA tyrant and something that give FNP it is a unit that armies with low model counts and high toughness/saves hate to see on the table.

CC Fexes are just too slow for my liking - apart from very elite armies they can be tarpitted quite easily. Mycetic spore in the backfield is the only way to go for these.

Best fex loadout for me does seem to be the TL devourers though. 12 S6 shots and twin-linked is great for anti-flyer, anti-horde and tranport killing.


PS did anyone honestly play that mawlocs could hit flyers before the FAQ?