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If you have the minis to represent them and carry your entire collection with you at all times.

 p5freak wrote:
I have started a daemon army recently and everyone says summoning is useless, I don't think so. You can summon whatever you want, if you roll the needed number, and even if you don't, you can summon something else, less powerful. There is almost no limit to what you can summon. You can summon the best counter units to your opponent's army. After seeing what he puts on the table.

You could do that... If you want to waste turn 1 sat in your deployment summoning an army whilst your opponent shoots you/scores objectives.
Or, you could start the game with a well rounded army and use turn 1 to cover the ground between you and your opponent/score objectives.

There'll never be a point in your game where you go "Oh damn, I wish I'd brought *insert unit here* instead of *insert unit here*" as long as you've built a good list.

 p5freak wrote:
I have started a daemon army recently and everyone says summoning is useless, I don't think so. You can summon whatever you want, if you roll the needed number, and even if you don't, you can summon something else, less powerful. There is almost no limit to what you can summon. You can summon the best counter units to your opponent's army. After seeing what he puts on the table.

Joshua Death is a veteran player and got multiple TOP8s in big events.

He knows what unit should be summoned under what situation.

Look at how many models he bringed to event:


I don't know the game as good as him, so I don't play summoning. Your opinion?

Could we please get the HD image nested in spoiler tags, it’s playing merry Hell with how Dakka is displayed -.-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for how a Summoning list took top 6... hmm. The mechanics of summoning have changed... instead of ‘cannot summon within no man’s land on the first turn’ it’s ‘cannot summon at all in the first turn’. Maybe he used fast, tough screening units to escort summoners into position T1, summoned fire/letter bombs T2? Thing about that is, much less CP, and no 3D6 charge on the letters. Hmm, curious


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I see LoC, Tzeentch chariots, EFs, BoNs, maybe a DP? There’ll be Tzeentch Heralds in there as well, as the chariots are riderless...

His list was:

Undivided Detachment-
Infernal Enrapturess as warlord
Sloppity Bilepiper
Spoilpox Scrivener
2 x 30 Plague Bearers
Nurglings

Gnarlmaw

Tsons Supreme Command-
Ahriman
2x Flying Daemon Prince

647 summoning points.

I'd also love to know how he used his summoning and what kind of "answers" he was bringing in.

 mrhappyface wrote:

You could do that... If you want to waste turn 1 sat in your deployment summoning an army whilst your opponent shoots you/scores objectives.
Or, you could start the game with a well rounded army and use turn 1 to cover the ground between you and your opponent/score objectives.

There'll never be a point in your game where you go "Oh damn, I wish I'd brought *insert unit here* instead of *insert unit here*" as long as you've built a good list.

The fact that you can get multiple TOP8s in big events proves me right that summoning as you play is not a bad idea. Its not like you should start with a 500 pts army and summon everything, which isnt even possible in matched play. 1500 points can get you 100+ models, which is good enough for board control. The rest could be reinforcement points.

 p5freak wrote:

The fact that you can get multiple TOP8s in big events proves me right that summoning as you play is not a bad idea..

I don't think one of the top players in the world scoring good with an oddball strategy proves anything but the fact that good playing skills is just as big a component to this game as list building is.

Now - are there any reports on how he played with summoning? Would be really interesting to know!

 knas wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

The fact that you can get multiple TOP8s in big events proves me right that summoning as you play is not a bad idea..

I don't think one of the top players in the world scoring good with an oddball strategy proves anything but the fact that good playing skills is just as big a component to this game as list building is.

Now - are there any reports on how he played with summoning? Would be really interesting to know!

I think he has a point though. He didn't use a mono-Grey Knight list or anything and make up for it with his "skill" lol.

On the flip side, I am not sold on the LVO being an indicator for balance. The missions and everything are so different it may as well be a different game from what I have seen... ah well. Guess that's the nature of the internet.

I think that's a very good point.

I think most of us, or at least people I've played with for the past decade, only play by GW's rules. Chapter Approved/errata included if we are aware of it. Never played ITC anything.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I think that's a very good point.

I think most of us, or at least people I've played with for the past decade, only play by GW's rules. Chapter Approved/errata included if we are aware of it. Never played ITC anything.

Any beginner guides on learning ITC rules? Have no clue how to play them

I would assume all their stuff is available one way or another on frontlinegaming.com

spaceclown wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I think that's a very good point.

I think most of us, or at least people I've played with for the past decade, only play by GW's rules. Chapter Approved/errata included if we are aware of it. Never played ITC anything.

Any beginner guides on learning ITC rules? Have no clue how to play them

Here is the Google doc for the missions used at the LVO. They have a couple different versions of this doc depending on what you're doing but as you can see, there's a good amount of tweaking/changes done to the missions. I believe more real variety was seen at the Warhammer tournament hosted by GW in the UK. I could be wrong though, and not all Codexs were out at that point either... so this year will be interesting with practically everything being released.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/edit

How to make summoning work:

Step 1: Buy 6000 points of daemons.

 slave.entity wrote:
How to make summoning work:

Step 1: Buy 6000 points of daemons.

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Profit

ftfy

I thought I heard somewhere that LVO was allowing summoning on the first turn since the models are not coming from reserves. Which seemed strange, because I think the summoning rules treat summoned models as if they were coming from reserves. I dunno, I wasn't there.

Summoned units are treated as reinforcements when they arrive on the battlefield, but they arent reinforcements. Because they arent set up during deployment, thus the tactical reserves rule does not apply. Its a new unit added to your army, its not even part of a detachment. Which means its not limited by the suggestion of 3 same units. And btw, there is no such thing as coming from reserves in 8th. Its now called reinforcements.

I've got 3 renegade knights that I have painted up. One for Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch. (Slaanesh is busy elsewhere. You really don't want to know to much about that).
Equipping these runs about 1000-1200 points, depending on the loadouts.

I've got a ton of daemons to use as another detachment. What would you add, daemon wise, to renegade knights?

This weekend I'm going to try this in an ITC game. (1989 points total)
What do you think would be good addition to renegade knights for daemons? How could this be leveraged?

To be competitive I think I have taken a bunch of nurglings and maybe 30 plaugebaers. Support them and make them harder to kill.
No one wants too kill nurglings camping objectives when you have 3 knights threatening.


If it where me tho, pinks. 2x30 and some brimstones in the back. I like Tzeentch and don’t own any Nurgle at all. Only God I do not have anything of.

dont play mixed weapons IK. double gatling to both or double gatlings and double rapid fire cannon, they are threathing enough in cac with 12 str 8 ap -2 d3 damage attacks, let the one equipped for melee do the heavy lifting. If you have access to FW play, instead of grinders, 3 deredeos or 3 contemptors, double butcher.

With the current list for my Khorne Daemon army, I currently have it at 2040 points. Is this too much over that 2000 point limit? To compensate, I was thinking of getting rid of Be'lakor and giving his Oblivious To Pain trait to my Bloodmaster. If I did this, this would free up 200 points for me. I was thinking of adding three more Bloodcrushers and either another Bloodmaster or some more Bloodletters. I could also have no more Bloodcrushers and spam more Bloodletters. If I cut a bit more after removing Be'lakor, I could possibly have another Bloodthirster (Unfettered Fury or Wrath of Khorne). Or I could keep Be'lakor and just cut other things. I could also remove Be'lakor and instead have a Soul Grinder that I could put in and have heavy firepower with some extra points left over. I'm not sure what I should do. Here's my list as is (not organized at all):

Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [Warlord] (Glory of Battle): 240
Skull Cannon (2): 180
Blood Throne: 105
Bloodcrushers (3): 141
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons: 156
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons: 180
Be’lakor [Warlord] (Oblivious to Pain): 240
Skulltaker [Warlord] (Devastating Blow): 84

Bloodletters:
Herald (Bloodmaster): 56
Troops (94): 658



Automatically Appended Next Post:
EDIT: NEW LIST

Commanders and vehicles:
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [Warlord] (Glory of Battle): 240
Skull Cannon (2): 180
Blood Throne: 105
Bloodcrushers (3): 141
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons: 156
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons: 180
Soul Grinder (Oblivious to Pain): 180
Skulltaker [Warlord] (Devastating Blow): 84

Bloodletters:
Herald (Bloodmaster): 56
Troops (94): 658
Daemonic Icon: 15
Instrument of Chaos: 10

Total Points: 2005

What do you guys think of this new list, as well as the questions that I asked in the previous post?

Well, let me think. This is a list I built of what you throw in.

Battalion khorne
DP wings, axe, relic skullreaver. 180p
Bloodthirster of unfettered fury 240p

3x30 bloodletters all with icon and instruments 705p

Spearhead khorne

Bloodmaster. 56p
DP, wings, relic crimson crown 180p

3 bloodcrucher instrument 151p

2 x skullkanon. 180p
Soulgrinder 180p

1872p total.

Not so sure how else you want to build your list.
Do not just throw all model in and ask how people fell about your list when we clearly can’t see what you’re list is. All you did was to write down all models you have and wanted us to build the list for you.

For your first question, “is 40p to much over 2000p?”
YES! If you’re going to play a 2000p game it’s simple, it’s 2k maximum. Most list have around 1980-1997p but never over.


Not trying to be a di** or anything.

Tazberry wrote:
Well, let me think. This is a list I built of what you throw in.

Battalion khorne
DP wings, axe, relic skullreaver. 180p
Bloodthirster of unfettered fury 240p

3x30 bloodletters all with icon and instruments 705p

Spearhead khorne

Bloodmaster. 56p
DP, wings, relic crimson crown 180p

3 bloodcrucher instrument 151p

2 x skullkanon. 180p
Soulgrinder 180p

1872p total.

Not so sure how else you want to build your list.
Do not just throw all model in and ask how people fell about your list when we clearly can’t see what you’re list is. All you did was to write down all models you have and wanted us to build the list for you.

For your first question, “is 40p to much over 2000p?”
YES! If you’re going to play a 2000p game it’s simple, it’s 2k maximum. Most list have around 1980-1997p but never over.


Not trying to be a di** or anything.

Thanks for the ideas. Honestly, I was just looking for clarifications, but I truly do appreciate the help. I think I'll take out a Bloodletter or two to bring down the updated points level. I also thinking I'm going to give the Bloodthirster the Armour of Scorn artefact so as to counter any psychic attacks.

DTW coverage is a good idea. You may find it be more useful on the Bloodmaster - a lot of lists are built to kill a Knight on T1 and won’t struggle to bring down a BT.

Bletters like to be around the 25 models mark - enough to have the 20+ bonus after eating overwatch, so taking the difference out of them is probably a good call.

You may find in objective games that 2x25ish + 4x10 is more useful than 3x25ish + Crushers. They can hide and hold objectives and yield a lot more CP.

There are models which say you can only have one in your army. Like the blue scribes. Summoned units arent part of a detachment, is a unit which isnt part of a detachment part of my army ? Could i summon additional blue scribes ? Having 3 or 4 of them auto manifesting psychic powers sounds fun, because they can manifest psychic powers which already have been manifested.

 lindsay40k wrote:
DTW coverage is a good idea. You may find it be more useful on the Bloodmaster - a lot of lists are built to kill a Knight on T1 and won’t struggle to bring down a BT.

Bletters like to be around the 25 models mark - enough to have the 20+ bonus after eating overwatch, so taking the difference out of them is probably a good call.

You may find in objective games that 2x25ish + 4x10 is more useful than 3x25ish + Crushers. They can hide and hold objectives and yield a lot more CP.

Thanks, I made my Bloodmaster a fourth Warlord and gave him the artefact. As to the organization of the Bloodletters, does that mean I should get rid of Bloodcrushers in objective games and put in more BL's?

 p5freak wrote:
There are models which say you can only have one in your army. Like the blue scribes. Summoned units arent part of a detachment, is a unit which isnt part of a detachment part of my army ? Could i summon additional blue scribes ? Having 3 or 4 of them auto manifesting psychic powers sounds fun, because they can manifest psychic powers which already have been manifested.

Good question... logic would probably dictate you can only have one on the field at a time, but you can resummon them if they die. Might be addressed in a FAQ somewhere.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
DTW coverage is a good idea. You may find it be more useful on the Bloodmaster - a lot of lists are built to kill a Knight on T1 and won’t struggle to bring down a BT.

Bletters like to be around the 25 models mark - enough to have the 20+ bonus after eating overwatch, so taking the difference out of them is probably a good call.

You may find in objective games that 2x25ish + 4x10 is more useful than 3x25ish + Crushers. They can hide and hold objectives and yield a lot more CP.

Thanks, I made my Bloodmaster a fourth Warlord and gave him the artefact. As to the organization of the Bloodletters, does that mean I should get rid of Bloodcrushers in objective games and put in more BL's?

Pretty much. BCs are still a serious buff and/or price cut away from being competitive. I love the models and have wanted to make them work for the past year and a half. Haven’t seen a single argument in their favour.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
DTW coverage is a good idea. You may find it be more useful on the Bloodmaster - a lot of lists are built to kill a Knight on T1 and won’t struggle to bring down a BT.

Bletters like to be around the 25 models mark - enough to have the 20+ bonus after eating overwatch, so taking the difference out of them is probably a good call.

You may find in objective games that 2x25ish + 4x10 is more useful than 3x25ish + Crushers. They can hide and hold objectives and yield a lot more CP.

Thanks, I made my Bloodmaster a fourth Warlord and gave him the artefact. As to the organization of the Bloodletters, does that mean I should get rid of Bloodcrushers in objective games and put in more BL's?

Pretty much. BCs are still a serious buff and/or price cut away from being competitive. I love the models and have wanted to make them work for the past year and a half. Haven’t seen a single argument in their favour.

Alright. I was thinking of using them as fast attack heavy cavalry, but if they're no good, I'll dump them in favor of something else. That leaves me with 141 points which I could use for 20 Bloodletters. Or I could put in another Daemon Prince (though that would leave at 2003 points). A Skull Cannon is possible as well, which would allow me to have 5 more Bloodletters and would give me even more firepower. Another option could be to have a Flesh Hound unit and Karanak (leaving me at 2002 points). Even though Karanak is a unit unto himself, since he too is a Flesh Hound, could I fuse him into single Flesh Hound unit, with four regular ones to back him up? If not, I could possibly have five Flesh Hounds (that's all I have lol) with 9 more Bloodletters or Karanak and 10 more Bloodletters. So many damned combinations to go with!

I need help with a rules question for a tournament I'm attending tomorrow. It regards Forgeworld models so if this isn't the right forum feel free to ignore this post.

I'm playing an alpha legion army in a 1250 point list, pretty basic, CSM, cultists and whatnot, however, I'm bringing A forgeworld Flyer. This unit has hard to hit. My question is, does this combine with the alpha legion tactic that gives units -1 to hit to models 12 away? If an enemy shoots this flyer and it's beyond 12 inches, do they get -2 to hit it?

Isn't this a bit too strong?

Thank you!

Does that FW flyer have the INFANTRY, HELBRUTE or BIKERS keyword ? Please read the rules thoroughly.

Btw, eldar can stack up to -11 to hit, and yes that legal.