Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Having a two week period in which to pre-order a product hardly qualifies DF as an impulse purchase?

If it was sited next to a till with the gummy bears it might be an impulse buy, Not really the same thing IMO.

A limited run (of 65,000 copies ffs!*) hardly hastens you into an impulse buy.

* - I would be suprised if FFG made that many initial copies of its most Boardgame popular lines.

No one saying that 100 is a ton of money,

Actually a ton = one hundred, so 100 is a ton of money!


Am not entirely convinced Notprop
Not everyone going into the stores on release would be aware of how many boxes have been produced
The "Limited edition" tag will have focused the mind for a fair few purchases imho. Whether it is admitted to or not is another matter.

It would be interesting to know what a standard production run is, and if you are correct about FFG then GW a being canny with calling Dread Fleet "limited run".
GW is not alone in this tactic and the effect usually helps sales along as people are concerned about missing out.

notprop wrote:Having a two week period in which to pre-order a product hardly qualifies DF as an impulse purchase?

If it was sited next to a till with the gummy bears it might be an impulse buy, Not really the same thing IMO.

A limited run (of 65,000 copies ffs!*) hardly hastens you into an impulse buy.

* - I would be suprised if FFG made that many initial copies of its most Boardgame popular lines.

I disagree on most points sorry... hehe

You know nothing about a game and never heard a word about it and suddenly you have a couple weeks window on a item that has a sales pitch limited quantities and one shot etc etc, that is not a planned purchase in any way shape or form. Add to that that in some countries you only have independent stores and that ridiculous tiny action window will be so small it hurts... Man I can be stuck at work for months without knowing whats going on about my hobby so 2 weeks is silly short.
I'm completely clueless if 65k is to much or to less but if I was positively surprised with this game I WOULD NOT wait to find that out... so yeah I would be pressed to buy now and think about it later ( impulse buy)

Impulse buy is not only the small cheap item near the gummy bears and at GW impulse buys ussually means spending some respectable money

NAVARRO wrote:
No one saying that 100 is a ton of money, read again please... missed the point? (Besides US is NOT world wide standart)

I will repeat in topics to be more clear.

-I can save tons of money to buy anything I want for a long period of time.

Fantastic. My point here is that $100 is not a lot of money and that most reasonable working adults not living below the poverty line should be able to "save" $100 in two weeks.

-Its odd to save money to buy something you have no idea what is.

Really? I knew a new Kindle would be coming out eventually. I put some money away for one. Turns our they're cheaper than the $150 I saved for it. I'm $50 up here, unless I decide to get the Fire instead. You say it's odd to save money to buy something you have no idea what it is; however, PEOPLE ARE THROWING DOWN $250 pre-orders for the Mantic set and have NO IDEA WHAT IS IN THE BOX. And guess what happens if you put the money away knowing "something" is coming from GW and you decide not to buy it? You're up $100 bucks. Woo hoo!

-This product was not about saving and planned conscient shopping habbits it was about impulse buy

I can't tell if that's supposed to be consistent or conscious, but either way: for most people $115 isn't an impulse buy. A magazine at the drugstore is an impulse buy. Some gum at the grocery store is an impulse buy.

-Impulse buys of something you never heard before are risky at 100+usd since you know, there's a recession V.2 coming so people in general, rich or poor are more aware of the money and how to spend it.

No condescension needed. I wouldn't ever describe purchasing a hobby product as "risky." The fact that people are aware of how they spend their money only substantiates what I've previously said.

And FWIW, and this has nothing to do with xenophobia, but yes, the US is the closest thing we have to a worldwide standard.

Guess what? I can't afford an M-Class. Probably won't be able to for a while. But I don't bitch about BMW because my finanace don't allow me to drive one of their luxury cars.

Good for you if a ton is small change in your pocket

Impulse buys are not restricted to drug stores and sweeties by the cash till. Especially for people with loadsa manny

In what is the USA a worldwide standard?

I can't afford a BMW either so if I saw one that I didn't like the look of I am not allowed to express my disaproval.
Apparently

And FWIW, and this has nothing to do with xenophobia, but yes, the US is the closest thing we have to a worldwide standard.

Guess what I'm done wasting my time with you cincydooley Want to deliberately miss the points? good have fun with that.

notprop wrote:If it was sited next to a till with the gummy bears it might be an impulse buy

In my GW, Dreadfleet is right next to the till. And what's worse, there are NO gummy bears in sight (hmm... gummy orks? methinks you're missing an opportunity there, Mr Wells)

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Good for you if a ton is small change in your pocket

I pretty clearly said it wasn't. I said I planned my purchase and had the money set aside.

Impulse buys are not restricted to drug stores and sweeties by the cash till. Especially for people with loadsa manny

You're right here. It isn't limited to those things, only is often limited to small ticket items more rather than big ticket items. And you're right, branding it as "Limited Run" is a marketing technique to encourage people to purchase the game. However, we had TWO WEEKS of adverts and GW information to plan the purchase, if you hadn't begun planning for it before they "officially" announced it. Clearly if you're on Dakka Dakka, you've had a good idea it was coming for longer than two weeks.

In what is the USA a worldwide standard?

English being the "business language" (and yes, I know this is much due to the UK's expansionist past as it is the USs) and business standards.

The US's impact on the economy, either through the massive imports or the fact that every other currency is compared to the USD.

THe fact that the USD is accepted in more countries than any other currency.

There are plenty other ways.

It wasn't intended as a slight, it's simple a truth. I imagine our future will be very much like the world of Firefly, where both American English and Chinese are the standards.

I can't afford a BMW either so if I saw one that I didn't like the look of I am not allowed to express my disaproval.
Apparently

When its about the price, then yes, yes it does. That was the context in which I presented the argument. Being pissy because you can't afford something isn't the manufacturers fault, nor should it be. The brunt of the "disapproval" I'm reading from you in regards to Dreadfleet is you being pissy because they made a game that you don't like rather than one you do, then you belittle people for A: purchasing said product, and B: appreciating a different aesthetic than you.

Also, the print run of a standard boardgame company is FAR below 65k. It isn't even close.

@Navarro - Congrats on completely ignoring my points. Heaven forbid someone present reasoned arguments that counter yours.

Far be it for me to be pissy about a game I haven't played.
Please show me where I have said anything that would remotely suggest that I have.

I have merely suggested that there could have been other ways of releasing a game, which as we are on a gaming forum, I thought was a legitimate discussion point.

There is no disapproval and I am on record as saying that if I did have the cash to spare, I would have bought Dread Fleet for the kids to play at our local library.

Yet again for your benefit I will say as I have said before, may those that have the game derive much pleasure of it.
This is disapproving and pissy how please?

I still fail to see the relevance of either the comments about xenophobia or the USA hegemony of standard English in this discussion. Maybe Navarro as a Portuguese and myself as an Englishman just don't match up to your exemplary American standards in the use of English. Hence the misunderstanding.

If the standard print run of a game is far below 65000 why has Dread Fleet been labelled as limited edition game?
This is deliberately misleading and presumably done so to induce quick sales.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:If the standard print run of a game is far below 65000 why has Dread Fleet been labelled as limited edition game?
This is deliberately misleading and presumably done so to induce quick sales.

This is an outrage!!! A company is hyping something up to induce sales. How dare they!!!

And if you act now, not only do you get a copy of Dreadfleet, but we'll throw in ANOTHER dreadfleet for just half price. BUT THAT IS NOT ALL.......

Chibi - Your posts lead me to believe that you are far from stupid, and like to just start arguements for gaks and giggles.

For example: If the standard print run of a game is far below 65000 why has Dread Fleet been labelled as limited edition game?
This is deliberately misleading and presumably done so to induce quick sales.

You take bits of info other people say, make a statement, then make a claim about what GW did, lableing it as misleading.

Standard Print run? There isn't a standard print run. Each company sets it's own run based on their finances and how well the game may sell. First run of Last Night on Earth was about 5k I think I was told. Other times I've been told print runs of some board games in the 10-30k range. A reprint of settlers could be 50k at a time, especially if a vendor like Amazon asks for 10k for Christmas. There really isn't a Standard Print Run.

And certainly GW isn't looking at other companies numbers, or even knowing them. From my experience 65k probably is more than the average game has for a first printing. 65k is still a Limited Print Run. When it's gone, it's gone. 75k for Space Hulk was limited. It sold out.

Calling it a Limited print run is not misleading. It's the truth. Was it done to get quicker sales? Probably. It's an ancient tactic in advertising. Anyone who hasn't encountered it is pretty naive.

So there is no standard print run. The game is Limited. It's not misleading at all. You're presumption is probably true, but so what? GW wants to sell more stuff quicker? That needs to be said?

It is not hyping up the game, it is telling porky pies old fruit.
That might be okay by your standards.
Call me old fashioned but it is not cricket and disappointing to see such practice.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Far be it for me to be pissy about a game I haven't played.
Please show me where I have said anything that would remotely suggest that I have.

Chibi, seems like I confused you with another poster. Apologies!

I have I still fail to see the relevance of either the comments about xenophobia or the USA hegemony of standard English in this discussion. Maybe Navarro as a Portuguese and myself as an Englishman just don't match up to your exemplary American standards in the use of English. Hence the misunderstanding.

This is a miscommunication I'll blame on the internet. I used an example using the USD. Navarro said (and I'll paraphrase) that using the USD is hardly standard. I elaborated on how the US influences those world standards. I included the comment about xenophobia to try and disclude any presumptions that I was being a 'holier-than-thou' American; that wasn't my intention at all. And as a point, I don't ever point out English/writing mistakes to people on the internet. It's completely douchey. I envy all of our European friends and am embarrassed that I can only speak one language well. Truly.

If the standard print run of a game is far below 65000 why has Dread Fleet been labelled as limited edition game?
This is deliberately misleading and presumably done so to induce quick sales.

It's limited because they're only doing one print run. Whereas FFG, GMT, Rio Grande, etc do multiple smaller print runs of games. You may have to wait for FFG to reprint Dungeonquest, but they'll eventually do it (though not always in the exact same iteration. See: Descent 2nd Ed, etc)

Ah I see, Thanks for the clarifications.

From what I have heard in scale modelling, where a limited edition is claimed the same model crops up again in a new boxing. Which makes a lot of sense, as it makes better use of expensive moulds. But this type of marketing does raise hackles in some quarters and is seen as rather cynical.

The production runs do tend to be much smaller than Dread Fleet It does guarantee that the run sells, but is a pain if you want one and miss out and have to wait for the next run, same as you infer re FFG et al

Good of course for businesses not having surplus on the shelves.

Flashman wrote:

notprop wrote:If it was sited next to a till with the gummy bears it might be an impulse buy

In my GW, Dreadfleet is right next to the till. And what's worse, there are NO gummy bears in sight (hmm... gummy orks? methinks you're missing an opportunity there, Mr Wells)

Somehow I thought that this would be the case somewhere!

That's it, GW Southampton you on the list. And not the Christmas card one either!

cincydooley wrote:
@Navarro - Congrats on completely ignoring my points. Heaven forbid someone present reasoned arguments that counter yours.

Sorry about that I always try to answer but reading the way you addressed things it was clear for me that repeating myself the same arguments for the 3rd time would only fuel more misunderstandings, you know when on a chat you really have to feel that the other side is also building the bridge with you.


As for the debate " What's wrong with GW trying to make a quick buck? " Its totally OK but please don't tell me you could have saved some money and planned this ahead and that its not a totally impulse buy marketed product.

Do I mind? errr not really I didn't like the figs but if I was lucky enough to find out about this release and liked the minis and had to buy it all in 2 weeks window I would feel the product itself does not justify so much hassle. And yes its a totally legit critic from people who mind these stunts.

This box will probably take more time to be totally sold out and maybe people will still be able to get it a bit later, but would you risk that if you liked the game? I don't think anyone would.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Ah I see, Thanks for the clarifications.

From what I have heard in scale modelling, where a limited edition is claimed the same model crops up again in a new boxing. Which makes a lot of sense, as it makes better use of expensive moulds. But this type of marketing does raise hackles in some quarters and is seen as rather cynical.

The production runs do tend to be much smaller than Dread Fleet It does guarantee that the run sells, but is a pain if you want one and miss out and have to wait for the next run, same as you infer re FFG et al

Good of course for businesses not having surplus on the shelves.

After a discussion on a retailer forum about trying to keep in the good selling boardgames, most of us have started keeping a half dozen squirreled away, for when they go OOP and we can't order them. Especially Arkham Horror, Settlers of Cataan, Pandemic, Munkin, Zombies, Last Night on Earth, and similar top selling games. It happens on such a regular basis that we have come up with strategies to keep the games in stock, although it costs us extra to carry the extra inventory. Especially a pain at Christmas.

mikhaila wrote:After a discussion on a retailer forum about trying to keep in the good selling boardgames, most of us have started keeping a half dozen squirreled away, for when they go OOP and we can't order them. Especially Arkham Horror, Settlers of Cataan, Pandemic, Munkin, Zombies, Last Night on Earth, and similar top selling games. It happens on such a regular basis that we have come up with strategies to keep the games in stock, although it costs us extra to carry the extra inventory. Especially a pain at Christmas.

...huh. Didn't really know that. Either my store is also good at keeping them in stock or they just don't sell a lot of board games, because I was under the impression that FFG and other companies kept printing them and that there weren't long periods where the games were just unavailable like that.

mikhaila wrote:In that case just send me a PM with your name and address. I'll set one aside for you. I picked up about 50 for my stores, so I'd have it for the Christmas season.

lol, 50? Good god.

I dunno, I might take you up on that. It depends on how long my store has their copies and/or how long it takes GW's web allotment to sell out I guess. I'll keep you in mind in case I get desperate.

No. I don't know the fluff and I'll avoid it simply because I like having money: Why give myself desire to buy something when I don't want it originally?

I really doesn't hold any interest in Dreadfleet but I asked my local store how it was doing for them. He said the dozen copies that he initially ordered were sold out on the first day and he's getting in six more (one of which is spoken for). It's doing better based on that feedback than I thought it would.

I wont be buying it because, I have been watching one piece recently and the temptation to paint the sails like the Straw Hat Pirates would be too great. :(

I got mine today.
I have to say I'm impressed.
The cloth playing surface looks good (and is going to be used for Dystopian Wars too). and the box is stuffed with sprues of ships and terrain.
with the amount and quality of stuff in the box, I have to say I'm not upset at the price. It seems like decent value.

For what it's worth I had a blast playing my first battle yesterday. We didn't even use a scenario just flubbed our way though a generic battle. My opponent ran one of his ships aground and still almost won. Good times.

NAVARRO wrote:
As for the debate " What's wrong with GW trying to make a quick buck? " Its totally OK but please don't tell me you could have saved some money and planned this ahead and that its not a totally impulse buy marketed product.

I think this is where GW's new secretive marketing strategy actually works, assuming they make these "autumn boxes" a bi-annual tradition, as it seems and as is rumoured. If people know that GW is going to release "something" at a fixed date, they will build up the anticipation even if very little is actually known beforehand. With such a scarce release schedule, combined with known high quality of the components, GW manages to build up somewhat of a brand image: people know that the components will be top-notch and higher quality compared to what most other companies produce, even if the cost of the game is high. One-time large print run is probably more economical for them than several smaller print runs. They can sell a large amount of these games without diluting down the "limited edition" aspect of the marketing hype.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:If the standard print run of a game is far below 65000 why has Dread Fleet been labelled as limited edition game?
This is deliberately misleading and presumably done so to induce quick sales.

Be reasonable man - that's standard marketing. Calling something 'limited' is the same reason why things cost 59.99 rather than 60. It's about perception, and it's basic marketing 101. And if anyone says "But HBDVD - you always say GW sucks at marketing!" I shall respond with "Even a broken clock is right twice a day".


Unless it's a digital clock. Then you're fethed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Unless it's a digital clock. Then you're fethed.

That's why analog technology is superior to digital!

Backfire wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:
As for the debate " What's wrong with GW trying to make a quick buck? " Its totally OK but please don't tell me you could have saved some money and planned this ahead and that its not a totally impulse buy marketed product.

I think this is where GW's new secretive marketing strategy actually works, assuming they make these "autumn boxes" a bi-annual tradition, as it seems and as is rumoured. If people know that GW is going to release "something" at a fixed date, they will build up the anticipation even if very little is actually known beforehand. With such a scarce release schedule, combined with known high quality of the components, GW manages to build up somewhat of a brand image: people know that the components will be top-notch and higher quality compared to what most other companies produce, even if the cost of the game is high. One-time large print run is probably more economical for them than several smaller print runs. They can sell a large amount of these games without diluting down the "limited edition" aspect of the marketing hype.

It will work for some people and it won't work for everyone.

There are loads of really good games on the market already. Most new ones get announced in advance, so you know what to look forwards to. This autumn we have Gears Of War and Super Dungeon Explore on their way, both featuring super components.

Compare that with the idea that every two years GW may release a game you might be interested in, but you won't know until the week before.

It wouldn't float my boat!

Got my copy of WD a day or so ago, kinda glad that I didn't pre-order a copy of Dreadfleet, as this is the first issue that I really haven't been bothered about reading which is, I guess, an adequate indication as to my enthusiasm for the game.

Yet to play it mind, so I could be swayed on this.

I thought about getting it for the Sea Matt and some Islands for my own Aquanautica Imperialis game, but the price tag scared me off.

Plus, all the secrecy actually "Decreased" my interest in the game. The secrecy aroudn the release is a bit like when you hear a film won't be screened for critics. Not a good sign in my book.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Backfire wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:
As for the debate " What's wrong with GW trying to make a quick buck? " Its totally OK but please don't tell me you could have saved some money and planned this ahead and that its not a totally impulse buy marketed product.

I think this is where GW's new secretive marketing strategy actually works, assuming they make these "autumn boxes" a bi-annual tradition, as it seems and as is rumoured. If people know that GW is going to release "something" at a fixed date, they will build up the anticipation even if very little is actually known beforehand. With such a scarce release schedule, combined with known high quality of the components, GW manages to build up somewhat of a brand image: people know that the components will be top-notch and higher quality compared to what most other companies produce, even if the cost of the game is high. One-time large print run is probably more economical for them than several smaller print runs. They can sell a large amount of these games without diluting down the "limited edition" aspect of the marketing hype.

It will work for some people and it won't work for everyone.

There are loads of really good games on the market already. Most new ones get announced in advance, so you know what to look forwards to. This autumn we have Gears Of War and Super Dungeon Explore on their way, both featuring super components.

Compare that with the idea that every two years GW may release a game you might be interested in, but you won't know until the week before.

It wouldn't float my boat!

Indeed... and lets not forget that this secrecy is completely out of touch with their prime clientele, the young ones... The old farts like us some more dedicated fans may be patient or cold enough to wait for something they may or may not like but for kids that get loads of hobbies super aggressive publicity stunts, newsletters, videogames betas etc? No chance!

IMO the secrecy is no good for no one in todays society it only saves some coins of publicity but your product will not reach effectively your clients.