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All this stuff about Bullgryns and Commissar squads is unencouraging.

Commissars in their current state, without a massive revamp suck compared to Inquisitors in practically every way, and are cheaper, and get gimmicks that are insane.

Ogryns are probably going to be naff models and have naffer rules, and we really don't need another transport.

Plastic Stormies is just about the only thing that sounds decent.

But what about my frigging Rough Riders? The single unit I probably most want to try but flat out can't because the metal models are garbage and converting them is a horrific affair. I can live without plastic Stormies, I've put buying the metal models on hold because I expect them to get a plastic kit but I certainly have no real issue with the metal kits.

What about my tanks, or new flyers? I want them.

 Snrub wrote:
I was looking for a source on what you said. I wasn't looking for you to just say it again.

The Codex Imperialis gives there numbers of between 1 and several for very large regiments (page 30 if you really, really want to check which given your tone you doubtless are eager to), and probably just about every publication that has any significant Imperial Guard involvement all the way until 3rd ed.

 Snrub wrote:
SAW = Squad Automatic Weapon

Most commonly a M249 Light Machine Gun I believe.

Ah ok, I thought it might have had some 40k specific meaning, lol.

Cheers.

Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.

As to wheels over tracks, well I. Disagree.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/2wheels98.pdf

This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.

It isn't about modernizing the models for the COD generation- one of the things that drew me into IG from CSM is the fact that I can relate to the models. (I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan) While I love the concept of WW1 in space I really enjoy the fact that my plastic space army sometimes looks like me and carries a lot of the same equipment. I know quite a few guys in the Marines that play Ultramarine armies specifically because they're the Ultramarines, of the Space Marines, because they are also Marines. So, you know.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.

"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."

*Pschiiiit*
"Any of you men want to disobey the direct orders from your commissar like that dead dude here ?"

Fixed that for you .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.

"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."

*Pschiiiit*
"Any of you men want to disobey the direct orders from your commissar like that dead dude here ?"

Fixed that for you .

Rolled on an armour save?

 SarisKhan wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Commissars Squads as plugins to other Imperial armies.

"Not one step back men! The Emperor orders us to take not one step back."
"We are withdrawing to a better firing position."
"I'll execute you for cowardice and heresy if you dare move from that spot."
"I am Terminator Sergeant Lucius Verran, the Blade of Kilnar, veteran of thirty campaigns and have served the Brazen Skulls Chapter for over 300 years. But no, little man, take out your Laspistol and wave it in my face for 'cowardice'. Let's see who wins this particular battle."

*Pschiiiit*
"Any of you men want to disobey the direct orders from your commissar like that dead dude here ?"

Fixed that for you .

Rolled on an armour save?

Given Terminator Sargeants usually don't wear helmets

 Palindrome wrote:

 Snrub wrote:
I was looking for a source on what you said. I wasn't looking for you to just say it again.

The Codex Imperialis gives there numbers of between 1 and several for very large regiments (page 30 if you really, really want to check which given your tone you doubtless are eager to), and probably just about every publication that has any significant Imperial Guard involvement all the way until 3rd ed.

It really seems to vary these days. Average seems to be one or two, with more being sent to units sent to extremely volatile deployments or very unruly regiments.

If you're wanting to rationalize seeing a few commissars at a company scale battle like what you'd see in 40k, you could always say that this is the focus of the attack. Perhaps command realized that these troops needed motivation more than most and attached a few commissars from the division level, or these are cadets given a chance to prove their worth (would be cool to see with a lord leading your force). There's plenty of ways to help it make sense. It's not like you're fielding IG allied with Necrons or something.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

It really seems to vary these days.

It changed with the 3rd ed IG codex, although I don't think that the fluff has ever been explicitly changed. Personally I only ever field 1 Commissar (if I field one at all) as I see them as being a assigned to formations of Company size or larger.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
All this stuff about Bullgryns and Commissar squads is unencouraging.

Commissars in their current state, without a massive revamp suck compared to Inquisitors in practically every way, and are cheaper, and get gimmicks that are insane.

Well you can't really compare Commissars from a codex written in 2009 to Inquisitors who take advantage of the Allies system and have all their own silly rules. That's like comparing Commissars to Azrael. Expect things to change.

Well, I do own a floor length leather coat, and I have been known to execute the occasional minion if they refused to follow my orders....

 SarisKhan wrote:
Rolled on an armour save?

Not only the no-helmet policy for leader may come into play here, but I guess the Commissariat knows that Commissar send into Marines chapter need extra wargear. It is way easier to execute a marine officer with cowardice with an inferno pistol .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
It is way easier to execute a marine officer with cowardice with an inferno pistol .

He'd probably be dead before any signs of cowardice appeared within Space Marine ranks.

Are we speaking of that army that has a rule to allow you to voluntarily fail a moral test ?

 Snrub wrote:
SAW = Squad Automatic Weapon

Most commonly a M249 Light Machine Gun I believe.

And IG is lacking of this style of weapon, while SAW could be repesented by lasgun/autogun, it actually more powerful, has slightly more range, and can suppress enemy without the need to setup firing emplacement. Heavy stubber should do this function. or isn't it?

I think a Heavy stubber would fill that niche perfectly. I'd really hope that at least vets or command squads would have it as an option.

Not sure why they'd need a heavy stubber option, not unless they change it from heavy 3 to assault 3.

 BrookM wrote:
Not sure why they'd need a heavy stubber option, not unless they change it from heavy 3 to assault 3.

Give it to an Ogryn! The renegades from the old LatD list had it all figured with their assault heavy stubber wielding giant mutants.

 Erzanj wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Not sure why they'd need a heavy stubber option, not unless they change it from heavy 3 to assault 3.

Give it to an Ogryn! The renegades from the old LatD list had it all figured with their assault heavy stubber wielding giant mutants.

Why? They have Ripper guns now, a bit higher on strength, no AP, but assault 3, so again, why?

 BrookM wrote:
Not sure why they'd need a heavy stubber option, not unless they change it from heavy 3 to assault 3.

Cultists got it, thus people think Guard need it.

Personally? I don't want a Heavy Stubber option for Guard infantry. Stubbers are pintle mounted weapons for the Guard and really only 'fit' as support/heavy weapons for the PDF and ill-equipped Cultists who have looted PDF armories in my mind.

Aye, it's a useless option, especially seeing as the heavy bolter is already priced at a cheap, low price.

 BrookM wrote:

 Erzanj wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Not sure why they'd need a heavy stubber option, not unless they change it from heavy 3 to assault 3.

Give it to an Ogryn! The renegades from the old LatD list had it all figured with their assault heavy stubber wielding giant mutants.

Why? They have Ripper guns now, a bit higher on strength, no AP, but assault 3, so again, why?

No particular reason, I just remembered that they had the only 'Assault' Heavy Stubbers that ever existed, and found it amusing. That's all. I wasn't saying it would be good or anything.

Gah, that's why I don't post - I'm really bad at making jokes on the Internet.

Krieg have heavy stubbers, their advantage over the heavy bolters is that they're twinlinked, but that's about it, its shame, because I like the weapon, but its terrible.

Even worse for Grenadiers, who get a 36'' range heavy weapon to complement their 18'' range hellguns.

It's really a useless upgrade that I only personally use on tanks because I like the look of it, but outside of that, it's got zero uses inside of the army.

Well I'd like the option of stubbers as my army is a PDF force..I think it's nice to play up the differences between IG and SM too. Heavy Bolters always seemed quite Marine-y to me, I'd like to see options for Heavy teams to have stubbers and Multilasers. Vive la difference..

 RandyMcStab wrote:
Well I'd like the option of stubbers as my army is a PDF force..I think it's nice to play up the differences between IG and SM too. Heavy Bolters always seemed quite Marine-y to me, I'd like to see options for Heavy teams to have stubbers and Multilasers. Vive la difference..

There's already a difference...

Heavy Bolters on Marines are carried by a single guy and are pretty much considered standard issue kit for their heavy weapon operators at this point. Hell even Scouts can carry a Heavy Bolter without power armor.

Heavy Bolters for the Guard are vehicle mounted or slogged around by two guys to be used as a perimeter defense weapon--which in some regiments actually will be ditched in favor of the Autocannons instead.

Multilasers are never really "emplaced" because of the energy requirements necessary for sustained fire, and stubbers are pretty much a joke weapon compared to everything else that could be taken as a heavy weapon option.

I have seen the models, but I don't see why more options is bad. Maybe I want poorly equipped troops for my Garrison Guard, they can be made twin linked and very low cost etc, you don't have to field them.

Fluff energy requirements tend to vanish with expediency all the time so there's no reason they couldn't have a tripod mounted version, because space science.

See I would love the option to take Multilaser heavy weapon teams, theres a lot to be said for the utility of strength 6, even if its only AP6. It can come in handy at the oddest times. Need to pen a dark eldar raider? Multi laser can do it! Need to put some wounds on bikers? Multi laser still wounds on a 2 or 3. The difference between 3 shot multi lasers and 2 shot autocannons can make all the difference.

It just wouldn't work within 40ks rules, there is far too much emphasis placed on squad upgrades so somthing as relatively weak as a heavy stubber would only work if it was optional and free.

There is another option though, Rogue Trader has the Echon pattern assault stubber, a cut down heavy stubber that is used as a personal weapon. I could see special units armed with these weapons (something along the lines of an assault 3 autogun) instead of lasguns.

ghostcat_inc wrote:

Part of the guard look is an archaic old war style type warfare, guard as a whole should never look modernised as it defeats the look and idea they have had for ages. Its what has drawn me to the guard personally and if they modernise the guard to look "cooler" for the COD generation that we live in im gonna drop 40k haha.

As to wheels over tracks, well I. Disagree.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/2wheels98.pdf

This should help you out, wheels are better on road and are cheaper, thats why my country and its tiny arsenal of LAVs all use tyres. As we dont plan on going to war or paying much for our vehicles.

It isn't about modernizing the models for the COD generation- one of the things that drew me into IG from CSM is the fact that I can relate to the models. (I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan) While I love the concept of WW1 in space I really enjoy the fact that my plastic space army sometimes looks like me and carries a lot of the same equipment. I know quite a few guys in the Marines that play Ultramarine armies specifically because they're the Ultramarines, of the Space Marines, because they are also Marines. So, you know.

All well and good, at the end of the day it comes down to taste. But I personally like the old style guard metal regiment look (they had heaps of gear, detailed uniforms and so forth) which I think they lack now, I'd love for them to have more gear and so forth but changing them into a more modern force over all is something that would put me off. But as I always say guard is about variation and personalisation, GW could have all these cool regiments that fits everyones taste, much like the elysian drop troops looking more modern in contrast to death corps of krieg looking historic ish and then everybody is happy.

I can see where you are coming from, just like you can probably see where im coming from. Thats why we should be thankfull there are so many other models out there, for example you can buy wheels that are designed to fit a chimera (cant remember which store), you can buy 28mm modern soldiers and imperiumunisesation them up to look all 40k and the list goes on.

But yes I agree, its always personal taste, I guess I just dont want to see guard become generic future soldiers like in a lot of Sci Fi themed material.