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I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

I'd be more willing to accept a Goffs locked Ghaz, if there was a snowballs chance in hell my Evil Sunz were getting a similar style character later down the line. And we know this is very unlikely/won't happen. CSM players on the other hand are guaranteed at least a World Eaters and Emperor's Children update at some point. Loyalists are very likely to have another Primarch return too.

People are confusing sub factions and factions again, we already have a post on the previous page about the 'poor' Space Wolves on the huge assumption they don't get a character model (despite the absolute glut of other releases they've enjoyed as part of the huuuuge SM update to Primaris). They have had more releases than all other factions combined by virtue of being SM. Let's not forget this key fact. Personally I think they'll get updated Ragnar anyway but that will be the exception and it will only highlight the huge discrepancy between what marines get (and expect) and what every other faction in the game gets.

If Ghaz is locked to Goffs, I haven't had a character release this PA either. And if any SM player tells me to 'just take Ghaz' I'll politely tell them to 'just take Guilliman'. Because it's exactly the same thing.

It’s not really the same, given Orks can freely mix Kulturs without penalty but Marines mixing Chapters lose their uber-rules. But no, there’s no parity on releases for sure. But you’re an Ork player, you know that!

I may fly into a wulfen rage without a redone Ragnar, that damn grandpa munster model needs to be replaced. Ragnar with his two wolves is a must, make it so GW.

EldarExarch wrote:

 ikeulhu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Eh shadowsun is the odd one. It's not like GW suddenly made all new special characters order free. Sister got order locked.

And if ghaz why not guilliman? Tigrius? Eldrar? Kharn? Magnus? Mortarion? Pask? Cawl? Grimnar? Bjorn? Mephiston?

Screw order/chapter/whatever locks for everybody eh? Everybody free!

None of those you listed, with maybe the small exception of Guilliman, are known for gathering and leading separate factions together like Ghaz is. One of Ghaz's most well known aspects is his ability to get the Klans to join together for a proper Waaagh and that is why he deserves rules that actually reflect that.

THANK YOU!

Seems obvious to me that Ghaz is very different from all of these listed characters.

Counter argument, abbadon does the Same for his failsades.
He only get's a general morale bubble whilest his rerolls only work for bl.
I'd assume this to be the case here aswell mostlikely

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

I'd be more willing to accept a Goffs locked Ghaz, if there was a snowballs chance in hell my Evil Sunz were getting a similar style character later down the line. And we know this is very unlikely/won't happen. CSM players on the other hand are guaranteed at least a World Eaters and Emperor's Children update at some point. Loyalists are very likely to have another Primarch return too.

People are confusing sub factions and factions again, we already have a post on the previous page about the 'poor' Space Wolves on the huge assumption they don't get a character model (despite the absolute glut of other releases they've enjoyed as part of the huuuuge SM update to Primaris). They have had more releases than all other factions combined by virtue of being SM. Let's not forget this key fact. Personally I think they'll get updated Ragnar anyway but that will be the exception and it will only highlight the huge discrepancy between what marines get (and expect) and what every other faction in the game gets.

If Ghaz is locked to Goffs, I haven't had a character release this PA either. And if any SM player tells me to 'just take Ghaz' I'll politely tell them to 'just take Guilliman'. Because it's exactly the same thing.

It's ok I had hopes for the chaos marine PA book and the only thing I can use in my red corsair force is daemon weapons, at least evil suns might get some new strats they can benefit from or some warlord traits, maybe psychic powers. If they released an evil sunz character that was so mediocre you'd never take them, would that please you out of interest?

Please stop whining about marines though, you pull up other posters in your threards about draggihng it off topic enough.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

If Ghaz isn't a big centrepiece character, then what is?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s not really the same, given Orks can freely mix Kulturs without penalty but Marines mixing Chapters lose their uber-rules. But no, there’s no parity on releases for sure. But you’re an Ork player, you know that!

It could be argued that Orks should also get Uber rules for going mono clan?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

If Ghaz isn't a big centrepiece character, then what is?

Highlighted point I think you missed.

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

I'd be more willing to accept a Goffs locked Ghaz, if there was a snowballs chance in hell my Evil Sunz were getting a similar style character later down the line. And we know this is very unlikely/won't happen. CSM players on the other hand are guaranteed at least a World Eaters and Emperor's Children update at some point. Loyalists are very likely to have another Primarch return too.

People are confusing sub factions and factions again, we already have a post on the previous page about the 'poor' Space Wolves on the huge assumption they don't get a character model (despite the absolute glut of other releases they've enjoyed as part of the huuuuge SM update to Primaris). They have had more releases than all other factions combined by virtue of being SM. Let's not forget this key fact. Personally I think they'll get updated Ragnar anyway but that will be the exception and it will only highlight the huge discrepancy between what marines get (and expect) and what every other faction in the game gets.

If Ghaz is locked to Goffs, I haven't had a character release this PA either. And if any SM player tells me to 'just take Ghaz' I'll politely tell them to 'just take Guilliman'. Because it's exactly the same thing.

It's ok I had hopes for the chaos marine PA book and the only thing I can use in my red corsair force is daemon weapons, at least evil suns might get some new strats they can benefit from or some warlord traits, maybe psychic powers. If they released an evil sunz character that was so mediocre you'd never take them, would that please you out of interest?

Please stop whining about marines though, you pull up other posters in your threards about draggihng it off topic enough.

Didn't get red corsairs get new rules in Vigilus?

I'd rather have a mediocre character I could take than one I cannot, though ideally I'd rather have a decent character I want to take.

I'm not whining about marines. Quite the opposite - we had someone lamenting the poor space wolves at the mere possibility of them not getting a new character in this PA, which is laughable given the abundance of support they've received throughout 8th. This is entirely on topic because (if you missed it), SW are the feature of the next PA and this topic is concerning future PA releases.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

Abaddon is worth feth all to my Night Lords. Why should Ghaz be any different for your Evil Sunz?

Honestly I think Ghaz should affect all orks, but this line you're pushing that csm are just a hairs breadth behind loyalists and have nothing to complain about is getting old.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

If Ghaz isn't a big centrepiece character, then what is?

Highlighted point I think you missed.

Umm Ghaz is big center piece model for subfaction...And it's not like white scars have big center piece model either. Yes they have special character. So does every ork subfaction.

So because ultramarines have big center piece model but not dark angels, blood angels, white scars, iron hands it's fine for orks to get one usable for every subfaction? Double standards.

But that's no surprise. Ork players are very entitled bunch generally. They feel they should get everything while others shouldn't get anything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

Abaddon is worth feth all to my Night Lords. Why should Ghaz be any different for your Evil Sunz?

Honestly I think Ghaz should affect all orks, but this line you're pushing that csm are just a hairs breadth behind loyalists and have nothing to complain about is getting old.

Ghaz does affect all orks...None of his special rules are goff specific. They target ork infantry.

It's ork players not wanting to take goff detachment. That's like IG player complaining having to take ultramarine detachment to get Guilliman rerolls.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Abaddon is worth feth all to my Night Lords. Why should Ghaz be any different for your Evil Sunz?

There are multiple stories, codex fluff pieces and novels where Thrakka is leading armies of nothing but Evil Sunz into battle. Same is true is for Bad Moons.
It's actually one of the main reasons why Armageddon's defenses crumbled, because the defenders didn't expect coordinated attacks between Bad Moons, Evil Suns and Blood Axes under the leadership of Ghazghkull.

Honestly I think Ghaz should affect all orks, but this line you're pushing that csm are just a hairs breadth behind loyalists and have nothing to complain about is getting old.

Abaddon is very different from Ghaz, as he doesn't actually lead other legions, but allies with them or lets members of other legions join his legion. A black legion Plague Marine is no longer part of the Death Guard, and if the actual Death Guard join the crusades, they are usually lead by Typhus, not Abbaddon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Ghaz does affect all orks...None of his special rules are goff specific. They target ork infantry.

It's ork players not wanting to take goff detachment. That's like IG player complaining having to take ultramarine detachment to get Guilliman rerolls.

Thrakka and Grotznik could be in the same UNIT last edition and gain formations buffs from that. Now they can't even be in the same detachment without losing something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
[Guess you missed the very large Goff icon moulded on Makari’s standard/on the original banner art and the red/black/checks paint scheme? C’mon, you’re the Ork guy... when Ghazghkull was released almost 30 years ago he was very visibly a Goff.

He is goff, but he rarely, if ever leads goff troops. I'm not aware of a single piece of fluff where he leads a large army of Goffs, it's almost always a mix of multiple clan (often with no goff but his entourage), evil suns or bad moons.

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Highlighted point I think you missed.

Umm Ghaz is big center piece model for subfaction...And it's not like white scars have big center piece model either. Yes they have special character. So does every ork subfaction.

Yeah. That's what I was getting at as well. He is exactly a big centrepiece mini for a sub-faction.

 Jidmah wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Abaddon is worth feth all to my Night Lords. Why should Ghaz be any different for your Evil Sunz?

There are multiple stories, codex fluff pieces and novels where Thrakka is leading armies of nothing but Evil Sunz into battle. Same is true is for Bad Moons.
It's actually one of the main reasons why Armageddon's defenses crumbled, because the defenders didn't expect coordinated attacks between Bad Moons, Evil Suns and Blood Axes under the leadership of Ghazghkull.

Honestly I think Ghaz should affect all orks, but this line you're pushing that csm are just a hairs breadth behind loyalists and have nothing to complain about is getting old.

Abaddon is very different from Ghaz, as he doesn't actually lead other legions, but allies with them or lets members of other legions join his legion. A black legion Plague Marine is no longer part of the Death Guard, and if the actual Death Guard join the crusades, they are usually lead by Typhus, not Abbaddon.

I agree on most of your points. As I said I think Ghaz should affect all orks. And I don't want Night Lords following some fething Black Legion punk. My argument was with the idea that the legions have or someday will have special characters. Night Lords have never and most likely never will have a special character. You mentioned Typhus. Who's the Night Lords or Alpha Legion equivalent?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

I'd be more willing to accept a Goffs locked Ghaz, if there was a snowballs chance in hell my Evil Sunz were getting a similar style character later down the line. And we know this is very unlikely/won't happen. CSM players on the other hand are guaranteed at least a World Eaters and Emperor's Children update at some point. Loyalists are very likely to have another Primarch return too.

People are confusing sub factions and factions again, we already have a post on the previous page about the 'poor' Space Wolves on the huge assumption they don't get a character model (despite the absolute glut of other releases they've enjoyed as part of the huuuuge SM update to Primaris). They have had more releases than all other factions combined by virtue of being SM. Let's not forget this key fact. Personally I think they'll get updated Ragnar anyway but that will be the exception and it will only highlight the huge discrepancy between what marines get (and expect) and what every other faction in the game gets.

If Ghaz is locked to Goffs, I haven't had a character release this PA either. And if any SM player tells me to 'just take Ghaz' I'll politely tell them to 'just take Guilliman'. Because it's exactly the same thing.

It's ok I had hopes for the chaos marine PA book and the only thing I can use in my red corsair force is daemon weapons, at least evil suns might get some new strats they can benefit from or some warlord traits, maybe psychic powers. If they released an evil sunz character that was so mediocre you'd never take them, would that please you out of interest?

Please stop whining about marines though, you pull up other posters in your threards about draggihng it off topic enough.

Didn't get red corsairs get new rules in Vigilus?

I'd rather have a mediocre character I could take than one I cannot, though ideally I'd rather have a decent character I want to take.

I'm not whining about marines. Quite the opposite - we had someone lamenting the poor space wolves at the mere possibility of them not getting a new character in this PA, which is laughable given the abundance of support they've received throughout 8th. This is entirely on topic because (if you missed it), SW are the feature of the next PA and this topic is concerning future PA releases.

Red corsairs got 1 warlord trait, 1 relic and 1 strat, the same level of support evil sunz have at present. A far cry from what the main legions get access to.

You've also literally just said you're decrying a wolves player because marines got releases. Space wolves didn't get a release, codex space marines did, it's not the fault of space wolves players that GW rolled the marine releases into their book with nothing unique for them.

I think Ghaz should operate a bit like Gulliman, a Goffs specific buff, but also a solid buff for every Ork.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

Based on what fluff?

Guess you missed the very large Goff icon moulded on Makari’s standard/on the original banner art and the red/black/checks paint scheme? C’mon, you’re the Ork guy... when Ghazghkull was released almost 30 years ago he was very visibly a Goff.

Missed this post, apologies. Ghazzy is for sure a Goff. But a 'Beast' should unite all the clans right? Goff or not. Y'know, like the actual beast did?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
It’s not really the same, given Orks can freely mix Kulturs without penalty but Marines mixing Chapters lose their uber-rules. But no, there’s no parity on releases for sure. But you’re an Ork player, you know that!

It could be argued that Orks should also get Uber rules for going mono clan?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

If Ghaz isn't a big centrepiece character, then what is?

Highlighted point I think you missed.

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

I'd be more willing to accept a Goffs locked Ghaz, if there was a snowballs chance in hell my Evil Sunz were getting a similar style character later down the line. And we know this is very unlikely/won't happen. CSM players on the other hand are guaranteed at least a World Eaters and Emperor's Children update at some point. Loyalists are very likely to have another Primarch return too.

People are confusing sub factions and factions again, we already have a post on the previous page about the 'poor' Space Wolves on the huge assumption they don't get a character model (despite the absolute glut of other releases they've enjoyed as part of the huuuuge SM update to Primaris). They have had more releases than all other factions combined by virtue of being SM. Let's not forget this key fact. Personally I think they'll get updated Ragnar anyway but that will be the exception and it will only highlight the huge discrepancy between what marines get (and expect) and what every other faction in the game gets.

If Ghaz is locked to Goffs, I haven't had a character release this PA either. And if any SM player tells me to 'just take Ghaz' I'll politely tell them to 'just take Guilliman'. Because it's exactly the same thing.

It's ok I had hopes for the chaos marine PA book and the only thing I can use in my red corsair force is daemon weapons, at least evil suns might get some new strats they can benefit from or some warlord traits, maybe psychic powers. If they released an evil sunz character that was so mediocre you'd never take them, would that please you out of interest?

Please stop whining about marines though, you pull up other posters in your threards about draggihng it off topic enough.

Didn't get red corsairs get new rules in Vigilus?

I'd rather have a mediocre character I could take than one I cannot, though ideally I'd rather have a decent character I want to take.

I'm not whining about marines. Quite the opposite - we had someone lamenting the poor space wolves at the mere possibility of them not getting a new character in this PA, which is laughable given the abundance of support they've received throughout 8th. This is entirely on topic because (if you missed it), SW are the feature of the next PA and this topic is concerning future PA releases.

Aside from generic models that every space marine got, what love did space wolves get in 8th that is just theirs exactly ? A primaris wolf guard battle leader with a meh gun and an axe !! Oh my how amazing..you're correct they truly have been the spoiled ones. I feel bad for even mentioning it. Really my cup runs over with the bounty. All that space wolves love. Only thing more bountiful is all the guard model love in 8th. A whole amazing Marbo and one commissar, the blessings are many, it's hard to count.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
I agree on most of your points. As I said I think Ghaz should affect all orks. And I don't want Night Lords following some fething Black Legion punk. My argument was with the idea that the legions have or someday will have special characters. Night Lords have never and most likely never will have a special character. You mentioned Typhus. Who's the Night Lords

M'Shen?
Maybe Jago Sevatarion, should he still be alive.

or Alpha Legion equivalent?

We all know that answer.

 Jidmah wrote:
M'Shen?

Good one.

tneva82 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think the key difference between Ghaz and Guilliman or even Abbadon is that while SM and CSM players will actually get big, centre-piece character models to lead their particular sub factions, it is very unlikely Orks get the same treatment.

If Ghaz isn't a big centrepiece character, then what is?

Highlighted point I think you missed.

Umm Ghaz is big center piece model for subfaction...And it's not like white scars have big center piece model either. Yes they have special character. So does every ork subfaction.

Please do tell me the page number of my codex where I can find this Evil Sunz special character? I must have missed him.

So because ultramarines have big center piece model but not dark angels, blood angels, white scars, iron hands it's fine for orks to get one usable for every subfaction? Double standards.

They might not be centrepiece, but you do realise that the marine sub factions have seen the following releases either during or immediately before PA within the last 6 months or so;

1. Mephiston - BA
2. Lazarus - DA
3. Tor Garadon - IF
4. Feirros - IH
5. Kayvan Shrike - RG
6. Adrax Agatone - Sal
7. Tigurius - UM
8. Kor'sarro Khan - WS

The only Marine Subfaction that hasn't seen a recent character release is BT and, if you count them, Grey Knights.

And you believe that I have the double standards here? Really? Let's look at the list of recent Ork releases assuming Ghaz is Goffs only;

1. Ghaz - Goff
2. Makari - Goff

Not much there for my Evil Sunz is there?

But that's no surprise. Ork players are very entitled bunch generally. They feel they should get everything while others shouldn't get anything.

Got to love that condescending, insulting attitude Tneva. You realise you've insulted yourself here too as last I checked you play Orks....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Abaddon is worth feth all to my Night Lords. Why should Ghaz be any different for your Evil Sunz?

Honestly I think Ghaz should affect all orks, but this line you're pushing that csm are just a hairs breadth behind loyalists and have nothing to complain about is getting old.

Ghaz does affect all orks...None of his special rules are goff specific. They target ork infantry.

It's ork players not wanting to take goff detachment. That's like IG player complaining having to take ultramarine detachment to get Guilliman rerolls.

No, it's like the Black Templar player not being impressed about the lack of new character model for his subfaction oh and he also didn't get any new Primaris releases a few months back. That is the equivalence here.

I will buy Ghaz regardless, I'll feel a lot happier about that purchase if I can actually field the model, particularly when all the fluff supports this. Or at least if I could use him as a MA Warboss. Hopefully GW are listening to their playerbase, I can assure you that most Orks are hoping he is cross-clan too.

Maybe Jago Sevatarion, should he still be alive.

Gw could never be that cool. Maybe Zso Sahaal, with Mita Ashen in tow preferably.

Probably never see that either.

Do we think Ghaz is actually going to have stat changes? Have any of the other characters who’ve been updated seem much change? Mephiston saw the obligatory Primaris improvements, so maybe we’ll just see a little bit of a stat buff for him?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Got to love that condescending, insulting attitude Tneva. You realise you've insulted yourself here too as last I checked you play Orks....

Some people might chalk it up as self deprecating humour then. But yeah, not you. I know that.

BrianDavion wrote:
I think Ghaz should operate a bit like Gulliman, a Goffs specific buff, but also a solid buff for every Ork.

The main problem with that setup is it means he'll functionally never be usable in a matched play game unless you bring a whole separate Goffs detachment.

The way they've done farsight/tyranid characters/GSC characters/eldar characters is much better IMO. fething sucks for those of us who had huge established collections prior to the dropping of 8th - I own every Ork special character painted up to match my Evil Sunz army and now I can't use any of them except proxying them as just unit leader nobz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
it'll really hurt my feelings if my all-grot army that doesn't get access to stratagems has to be "Goffs."

Why would you care? You are in no way obligated to make your ork detachment of a single clan.

Yeah that was sarcasm. My whole army only gets the autopass morale and CP reroll stratagems. I could not care less what clan makari is.

Why are you so keen to take an army that is garbage? Why even bother following the rules at that point? Why not just use the Red Gobbo as a HQ?

I dunno, people get weird about it. If you think Makari is going to be anything other than a joke unit, I'm not sure what to tell you - we've seen his stats, he's basically just a 2+ invuln save and 4 wounds, he does almost nothing else.

To be fair it does come off a bit silly to fault someone new stuff because you want new stuff. Like, for instance, as the space wolves player, I just said I'd rage if they didn't get a new Ragnar. That was said in part jest but also in sadness as I was kind of looking forward to it.

I didn't say how anyone else should not get what they were getting just that I would be upset if they got nothing.

Not naming names, but some people do get a little cranky when others get things and they don't. It's a normal human feeling some just think it's a view lacking in class. We should be happy for each other and seeking for ourselves, not feeling entitled to extra love because we dislike the faction that is being ignored.

Dudeface wrote:
Red corsairs got 1 warlord trait, 1 relic and 1 strat, the same level of support evil sunz have at present. A far cry from what the main legions get access to.

You've also literally just said you're decrying a wolves player because marines got releases. Space wolves didn't get a release, codex space marines did, it's not the fault of space wolves players that GW rolled the marine releases into their book with nothing unique for them.

I don't see your issue with the Red Corsairs, they have as much support as my sub faction and I don't expect PA will give Evil Sunz more, unlike your main legions, but we'll see. It's off topic either way.

I feel like SM players need to pick a side with their arguments - I have been told time and time again that the Phobos datasheets released in the PA supplements for non-codex Marine chapters for some reason shouldn't count as 'new content' but you're telling me that SW didn't get a release when they dropped a few month back which implies to me the exact opposite. I don't see why Wolves or DA or any other sub faction of Marines (including Chaos Marines) are entitled to special, unique units while no other subfaction is?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Do we think Ghaz is actually going to have stat changes? Have any of the other characters who’ve been updated seem much change? Mephiston saw the obligatory Primaris improvements, so maybe we’ll just see a little bit of a stat buff for him?

Since GW are pushing him as Beast status I'd expect to see significant changes in his statline and abilties. He may go above 10W which would be interesting. We have no info on that at the moment, of course.

There are rumours he and Ragnar feature in a box with Nobz, Meganobz and Reivers....

Csm have special, unique units? I'm assuming you're talking about Death Guard and Thousand Sons because the non aligned legions got jack .

And Jack left town.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Csm have special, unique units? I'm assuming you're talking about Death Guard and Thousand Sons because the non aligned legions got jack .

And Jack left town.

What about everything in Shadowspear?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I don't see why Wolves or DA or any other sub faction of Marines (including Chaos Marines) are entitled to special, unique units while no other subfaction is?

... because they have their own codices?

naaaaaaaaaaaaaah! it couldn't be that! That makes entirely too much sense!

 Jidmah wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Csm have special, unique units? I'm assuming you're talking about Death Guard and Thousand Sons because the non aligned legions got jack .

And Jack left town.

What about everything in Shadowspear?

So what? The venom crawlers and the master of possession? I guess those are specific to the unaligned legions as a [/b]whole[b], but I thought we were talking about specific to each legion. And although they might be legal, I don't consider those for Night Lords. Night lords shouldn't do daemons.

And yeah I know that's just me.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Do we think Ghaz is actually going to have stat changes? Have any of the other characters who’ve been updated seem much change? Mephiston saw the obligatory Primaris improvements, so maybe we’ll just see a little bit of a stat buff for him?

Since GW are pushing him as Beast status I'd expect to see significant changes in his statline and abilties. He may go above 10W which would be interesting. We have no info on that at the moment, of course.

There are rumours he and Ragnar feature in a box with Nobz, Meganobz and Reivers....

I’m not sure how I’d feel about him giving above 10W, though depends how they go about it I guess. Just typically anyone like that get focused and murdered before they do anything. I also like squeezing him into transports.