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 Grimskul wrote:
I'm waiting for the stories where he rolls double 6's to wounds against an enemy HQ character like a Smash captain and one shots them in the process. Grot Wars: Makari Strikes Back!

Well, you know what they say - if his hands are at the same level of your head, his groin is within easy reach of your knife.

the_scotsman wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
oh that is freaking incredible. Please please be an HQ slot model! Please let me run gretchin detachments GW!!! Don't be another disappointment like the Red Gobbo in the elite slot!

If he's locked to Goffs it isn't great. It doesn't bode well for Ghazzy getting a cross-clan rule either, which is worrying.

Herbington wrote:
The confirmed he is an HQ in one of the Facebook comments.

Source? I've checked the FB comments and can't see this anywhere.

Edit - Nvm, found it. A Grot HQ is welcome, even if he's a named character and Goffs only.

it'll really hurt my feelings if my all-grot army that doesn't get access to stratagems has to be "Goffs."

Yes, otherwise it is 'freaking incredible'.... Much excite! So lucky! 11/10 GW you nailed it.

the_scotsman wrote:
it'll really hurt my feelings if my all-grot army that doesn't get access to stratagems has to be "Goffs."

Why would you care? You are in no way obligated to make your ork detachment of a single clan.

An all Grot Army getting Farsight style rules would probably simultaneously generate mega hype and mega rage at the same time.

Prospect of Ghaz being Goff only is a bit sad. Not hugely surprising - but a lesson not learned if so. Unless you had some weird rule that all Orks count as Goffs when Ghaz is on the table, on top of their regular rules (with say exploding hits on 5s if propa Goffs already).

But that sounds like nice things, and Orks, so...

Tyel wrote:
But that sounds like nice things, and Orks, so...

I think GW has graduated from "orks can't have nice things" to "we don't know how to give orks nice things"

 Jidmah wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
it'll really hurt my feelings if my all-grot army that doesn't get access to stratagems has to be "Goffs."

Why would you care? You are in no way obligated to make your ork detachment of a single clan.

Yeah that was sarcasm. My whole army only gets the autopass morale and CP reroll stratagems. I could not care less what clan makari is.

At least they fixed the index-era RAW bug where a runtherd with a squig hound could snarf down D3 grot tanks when a unit of them failed a morale test because they had the GRETCHIN keyword.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
it'll really hurt my feelings if my all-grot army that doesn't get access to stratagems has to be "Goffs."

Why would you care? You are in no way obligated to make your ork detachment of a single clan.

Yeah that was sarcasm. My whole army only gets the autopass morale and CP reroll stratagems. I could not care less what clan makari is.

Why are you so keen to take an army that is garbage? Why even bother following the rules at that point? Why not just use the Red Gobbo as a HQ?

Heard rumours that Silver Templars (Primaris chapter) are vs Deathguard in one of the future books.

Might be fakes from the supplement they did with Conquest, as I've not seen the pics first hand just heard about them. But there's definitely space for a more focused chapter like that in carving out some specific strats and traits (not to mention a book to put rules for the bikes and speeders in), and vs Deathguard would be building off people who have the starter sets...as disappointed as I am that it's not Deathguard/Deathwatch/Necrons.

Pics we've seen though are Ultramine and Blood Angels, a reunion of the two Imperiums, does Deathguard make sense in that context? All we know is a fleet disappeared through the Tau portal as far as I know.

I will be really sad if Ghaz is restrcited to Goffs only. Why would GW do this when they just hit it out of the park with Shadowsun and allowing her to be part of any tau sept.

Why would you go backwards and restrict them, if anything Ghaz is more appropriate to lead any Waaaaagh than Shadowsun would lead any sept.

If they do this it just goes to show how truly clueless GW is when it comes to balance and presenting similar options to all factions so that some players do not feel ostracized/left-out.

Eh shadowsun is the odd one. It's not like GW suddenly made all new special characters order free. Sister got order locked.

And if ghaz why not guilliman? Tigrius? Eldrar? Kharn? Magnus? Mortarion? Pask? Cawl? Grimnar? Bjorn? Mephiston?

Screw order/chapter/whatever locks for everybody eh? Everybody free!

tneva82 wrote:
Eh shadowsun is the odd one. It's not like GW suddenly made all new special characters order free. Sister got order locked.

And if ghaz why not guilliman? Tigrius? Eldrar? Kharn? Magnus? Mortarion? Pask? Cawl? Grimnar? Bjorn? Mephiston?

Screw order/chapter/whatever locks for everybody eh? Everybody free!

None of those you listed, with maybe the small exception of Guilliman, are known for gathering and leading separate factions together like Ghaz is. One of Ghaz's most well known aspects is his ability to get the Klans to join together for a proper Waaagh and that is why he deserves rules that actually reflect that.

 ikeulhu wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Eh shadowsun is the odd one. It's not like GW suddenly made all new special characters order free. Sister got order locked.

And if ghaz why not guilliman? Tigrius? Eldrar? Kharn? Magnus? Mortarion? Pask? Cawl? Grimnar? Bjorn? Mephiston?

Screw order/chapter/whatever locks for everybody eh? Everybody free!

None of those you listed, with maybe the small exception of Guilliman, are known for gathering and leading separate factions together like Ghaz is. One of Ghaz's most well known aspects is his ability to get the Klans to join together for a proper Waaagh and that is why he deserves rules that actually reflect that.

THANK YOU!

Seems obvious to me that Ghaz is very different from all of these listed characters.

Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

Lol, using Kharn as an example really undermines his argument too. I mean really? Kharn, *THE* Betrayer, is somehow comparable to an Ork Warlord that has been able to combine the fractious masses of Orks under one cohesive command? The only one close to that in the Chaos camp is Abbadon (which oddly you didn't include), and he unfortunately seems to have missed the new ruling paradigm that gives these characters exemption for blocking detachment traits.


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 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

It's not so much taking away the Goff keyword and making it so he doesn't disrupt the klan traits of the detachment he's leading. Which makes sense because all of the background so far has highlighted on how he's been able to use each of the klanz as if he were one of their own, regardless of his own origins of being a Goff. To show his lack of klan bias, he still provided a lot of protection to Grotsnik, who is a Deffskull and he consistently allies/works with other Ork warlords of different klanz like Nazdreg.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

Based on what fluff? He hasn't led a specifically Goff warband since time immemorial. As others have stated above, one of his defining features is his ability to unite all the clans so he should be able to be in any clan detachment without breaking the clan keyword, at the very least. He can keep his Goff keyword. He shouldn't restrict other detachments. Definitely not unless GW are willing to give us back MA Warbosses using an alternative head or something for the Ghaz model.

Otherwise I'll be sitting here (im)patiently waiting for an Ork character I can actually field in my Evil Sunz army....

 Tastyfish wrote:
Heard rumours that Silver Templars (Primaris chapter) are vs Deathguard in one of the future books.

Might be fakes from the supplement they did with Conquest, as I've not seen the pics first hand just heard about them. But there's definitely space for a more focused chapter like that in carving out some specific strats and traits (not to mention a book to put rules for the bikes and speeders in), and vs Deathguard would be building off people who have the starter sets...as disappointed as I am that it's not Deathguard/Deathwatch/Necrons.

Pics we've seen though are Ultramine and Blood Angels, a reunion of the two Imperiums, does Deathguard make sense in that context? All we know is a fleet disappeared through the Tau portal as far as I know.

silver templars is unlikely as a "they get their own rules" they are however a possiability to be explored, it'd be intreasting to see some sort of special rules for ultima founding chapters


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

Based on what fluff? He hasn't led a specifically Goff warband since time immemorial. As others have stated above, one of his defining features is his ability to unite all the clans so he should be able to be in any clan detachment without breaking the clan keyword, at the very least. He can keep his Goff keyword. He shouldn't restrict other detachments. Definitely not unless GW are willing to give us back MA Warbosses using an alternative head or something for the Ghaz model.

Otherwise I'll be sitting here (im)patiently waiting for an Ork character I can actually field in my Evil Sunz army....

IMHO he should work like shadowsun

 Grimskul wrote:
I mean really? Kharn, *THE* Betrayer, is somehow comparable to an Ork Warlord that has been able to combine the fractious masses of Orks under one cohesive command?

Woah, I really see your point.
Kharn THE Betrayer would OF COURSE be EXTREMELY dedicated to his unwavering and absolute LOYALTY to the World Eaters, and would NEVER defect them to join the opposite army (or focus more on killing World Eaters than on killing today's enemies, which is as close to an alliance as Kharn can get). That's why he is a betrayer: unwavering loyalty.

Abaddon is also faction-locked, despite leading the Black Legion and other legions and corrupted renegades (albeit "only" during each Black Crusade for the other traitor legions) and also despite bearing the Mark of Chaos Ascendant which even Horus himself didn't bear.

Shadowsun is a stupid exception.

And I love that stupid Exception. Tau also get the stupid limitation of only one commander per detachment so it balances out.

The way they limited shadowsuns interaction with non-Tau sept detachments is honestly a disappointment to me. don't sell her as "usable anywhere" if in the end she's at reduced potency.

I would hope Ghaz is more capable.

Bdrone wrote:
The way they limited shadowsuns interaction with non-Tau sept detachments is honestly a disappointment to me. don't sell her as "usable anywhere" if in the end she's at reduced potency.

.

So she's like Gulliman?

Is not like for her to lose overwatch on 5+ is that big of a problem. Of course losing the Kauyon in non-T'au units sucks.

Man, I'm glad people don't care about Tyranid characters.

Of note, that little map showing sightings of The Beast across the Galaxy does show it among other Ork klans Waaghs. So I don't think it would be out of line to think he might be an actual combining force/buff piece for all Orks. Course, there could also be abilities/rules for him that focus more directly on buffing Goffs...

So, I know Space Marines are a wobbly subject, but one thing I find a little funny (and also crap for those who collect them) is that it seems like Space Wolves will be the only first founding chapter not to get a character with their PA book. GW set a bit of a precedent for space marine characters and then the poor Space Wolves don’t get one when it comes around to them.

They seem to be heavily focused on Orks for this book, which is really cool and it’s nice to see a Xenos faction in the lime light instead of power armour. But it still sucks for Space Wolves who’ve been waiting for their reimagined character.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So, I know Space Marines are a wobbly subject, but one thing I find a little funny (and also crap for those who collect them) is that it seems like Space Wolves will be the only first founding chapter not to get a character with their PA book. GW set a bit of a precedent for space marine characters and then the poor Space Wolves don’t get one when it comes around to them.

They seem to be heavily focused on Orks for this book, which is really cool and it’s nice to see a Xenos faction in the lime light instead of power armour. But it still sucks for Space Wolves who’ve been waiting for their reimagined character.

They could still be holding back on the reveal of a PrimaRagnar model. We know Admech are getting more than one model come the time of their book already, so there is a decent chance Ghaz/Makari are not the only models we will see with Saga of the Beast.

 Jidmah wrote:

Tyel wrote:
But that sounds like nice things, and Orks, so...

I think GW has graduated from "orks can't have nice things" to "we don't know how to give orks nice things"

They did trip and accidentally give them a handful of nice things on the AoS side, so anything is possible.

 Grimskul wrote:
Lol, using Kharn as an example really undermines his argument too. I mean really? Kharn, *THE* Betrayer, is somehow comparable to an Ork Warlord that has been able to combine the fractious masses of Orks under one cohesive command? The only one close to that in the Chaos camp is Abbadon (which oddly you didn't include), and he unfortunately seems to have missed the new ruling paradigm that gives these characters exemption for blocking detachment traits.


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 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

It's not so much taking away the Goff keyword and making it so he doesn't disrupt the klan traits of the detachment he's leading. Which makes sense because all of the background so far has highlighted on how he's been able to use each of the klanz as if he were one of their own, regardless of his own origins of being a Goff. To show his lack of klan bias, he still provided a lot of protection to Grotsnik, who is a Deffskull and he consistently allies/works with other Ork warlords of different klanz like Nazdreg.

If it was about fluff and all that for people fine but it's just "powaaa! I want game POWER without any restrictions!"

It's just people not wanting to take goffs for goff character. So at that point every player has just as valid arqument to have their powerful character chapter/whatever locked. It's "give me free rules" syndrome again.

And guilliman btw is the damn leader of whole imperium ATM....He's literally THE character you should be able to put on ANY imperium detachment with zero penalties. So how about that. Have ghaz in goff det the moment imperium players get guilliman in their detachment without even breaking mono bonuses. Abaddon for all chaos detachments etc.

If there are 2 charackters in 40k that should be able to lead the whole faction without restrictions, it would be Abbadon and Ghaz.

So its either GW does not understand how their own keyword system works, or Chaos and Orks are not allowed to have anything nice.

tneva82 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Lol, using Kharn as an example really undermines his argument too. I mean really? Kharn, *THE* Betrayer, is somehow comparable to an Ork Warlord that has been able to combine the fractious masses of Orks under one cohesive command? The only one close to that in the Chaos camp is Abbadon (which oddly you didn't include), and he unfortunately seems to have missed the new ruling paradigm that gives these characters exemption for blocking detachment traits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

It's not so much taking away the Goff keyword and making it so he doesn't disrupt the klan traits of the detachment he's leading. Which makes sense because all of the background so far has highlighted on how he's been able to use each of the klanz as if he were one of their own, regardless of his own origins of being a Goff. To show his lack of klan bias, he still provided a lot of protection to Grotsnik, who is a Deffskull and he consistently allies/works with other Ork warlords of different klanz like Nazdreg.

If it was about fluff and all that for people fine but it's just "powaaa! I want game POWER without any restrictions!"

It's just people not wanting to take goffs for goff character. So at that point every player has just as valid arqument to have their powerful character chapter/whatever locked. It's "give me free rules" syndrome again.

And guilliman btw is the damn leader of whole imperium ATM....He's literally THE character you should be able to put on ANY imperium detachment with zero penalties. So how about that. Have ghaz in goff det the moment imperium players get guilliman in their detachment without even breaking mono bonuses. Abaddon for all chaos detachments etc.

In fairness, Gulliman's actually pretty easy to do that in. he's a LOW so can be added in his own detachment he does provide a aura that impacts all IoM characters. sure you don't get the re-roll wounds and all hits, but he's still got a 12 inch re-roll 1s to hit, add 1 to charge and advance rolls and re-roll morale rolls aura that effects ALL Imperium units. I doubt it's nesscarily optimial for non UM units, but if you wanted to have a "Imperial Guard lead by Gulliman" army, he'd not take anything away, and he'd bring some stuff to the table.

IMHO thats the way a "Faction leader" should work, sure he's best with his partiuclar subfaction, but if you take him with another faction they get something for it

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Ghaz was always a Goff. Why should that change? Would be unfluffy to make him Clan-agnostic.

Based on what fluff?

Guess you missed the very large Goff icon moulded on Makari’s standard/on the original banner art and the red/black/checks paint scheme? C’mon, you’re the Ork guy... when Ghazghkull was released almost 30 years ago he was very visibly a Goff.