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I've been a 40K player since early 3rd edition and have had various armies during that time. Currently I have a massive force of space marines and previous to 6th my win/lose was roughly 50/50. I'm not a competitive gamer but I like to win half my games, but since the advent of 6th edition I've played 18 games with my Imperial Fists and lost 17. I've played 2 with my necrons and won both. My list normally changes a bit, but my staples are:

Lysander
Sternguard (10 if i can)
Landraider Phobos
Tactical Squads
Mortis Contemptor (for anti air)

I also usually bring along an aegis with quad cannon, but i'm dropping that out my list for tonight. Am I missing something in the space marine codex that is awsome in 6th or have space marines taken a hit compared to other armies in this edition?

Well from what I tell you lack dedicated CC units, but that alone should not cost you games. I have not played enough games in 6th with my SM to make further claims though, what do you mostly face when fielding them?

Perhaps bring alonge some scouts for sniping? And a few fliers perhaps

That and a few more of *actual* codex units, like a terminator squad, may help, too...

6th should have changed how you view list building as compared to 5th. I've notice with my c:sm salamanders I've had to change how I build lists and play. I know that's super vague but its true. I've Definately won more games in 6th than I did in 5th but it was because I changed up my list to stuff that works better with the current rules. if stuff isn't working out identify why and change it up a bit.

1. What is the loadout on your tac squads? They are likely too expensive at this day and age (dont give your seargent a PF. Go PW at best). Rhinos are now somewhat iffy for them. Keep them lean and get in as many as you can. Objectives are the name of the game, I run 2 10 man and 1 5 man sniper-scout at 1500 and I feel like I have too little. At 1750 id run at least 3 10 mans and 1850 id try to fit in 4 \ Troops are everything. Yes we can combat squad them but man are those easy easy easy to kill now.

2. 10 sternguard is a lot of points, try... 6-7

3. TFC is super good now, consider it, as are vindicators.

4. LRs are less than ideal now cause they can be glanced to death, and again that's a heavy point sink for lascannons which you could get elsewhere.

5. Mortis contemptors are good, though expensive,s o keep him lean as well (what ive been doing is just giving him kheres cannons and then make my quad gun an icarus instead. by RAW he can fire the icarus at bs 5 instead of one of the cannons, so he gets long range at bs 5 and if anything comes close he has 12 render assault shots).

6. TH/SS termis are still super good. I try not to run them cause I like being all shooty but if ur having issues then they are definitely not a bad investment.

7. drop-podding stuff is still super good. U could drop a seige dread and/or ur sternguard to get i ntheir face. Not how I typically play but it is super effective at getting first blood. Seige dreads WRECK meq, and 5 man sternguard with combi meltas should take out any tank or whatever you need.

8. the hyperios platform is decent AA too for 35 a pop, if air is a problem for you getting 2-3 of those a good investment in your FA slot.

9. Attack bikes are gold. I never leave home without a tleast 2. MMs on a 2 wound t5 guy is pretty great.

10. Typhoon speeders are still good

11. the talon is.. decent (though a touch overcosted) though kinda necessary as our only real flyer right now

In general SM are among the older MEQ codex's and so some things (mainly our troops) are a touch overcosted (prolly should be 15 each like all the new codex's instead of 16), so we have to compensate by keeping them as lean and efficent as possible and having lots of them. We then can augment that with our more efficent toys. our CC sucks, stick to TH/SS termies if you want it at all, and LRs are easy to kill. Aside from that you should be good!

ive been having solid success in 6th, running Lysander as my hq. like others have said, i think you need to use Termies. Yes Assault Termies are still amazing, but good old tactical terminators got a big boost IMO with most things that can crack their 2+ save now strike at the same initiative as them. Plus, Lysanders Bolter Drill works very very well with them. They are now a unit that throws out alot of dakka (especially with the CMLs) and can punch their weight in CC

I agree more termies, and if you want to be a special flower, Honour Guard are okay (but standard terms are better).

I've been running cloaked sniper scouts with Telion behind a Quad Aegis, and I think I'm in love. 2+ cover is gold Jerry!

I've also got in the habit of bring in allied IG tanks. Very fun.

Storm Talons do well in pairs.

What problems are you encountering? How do you lose?

Your list doesn't seem to be bad.

I run a block of 10 sternguard (5 C-Plas, 5 C-melta), with a libby and Null Zone / Gate. Now i use a drop pod to deliver them, i also have 2 ICD in drop pods to DP assault, meaning i have already softened their army before my SG drop down. How do you move your SG? In the land raider? I wouldn't advise that, there are no firing points, so your wasting your special ammo. With the drop pod, they are out in the open and able to fire freely, and with the change to rapid fire, meaning you can move AND shoot once at max range, they become more effective.
With my tactic of drop pod assaults, not only are you very likely to get first blood, but if any enemy fogets about your drop pods, there is potentially 2 VPs (FB and Linebreaker). You really have to play the objectives.

How are your Tactical squads loaded out? I have 1 full plas squad (Pistol, PG, Cannon). Great for, well, more or less everything! The other tactical squad has a Hbolter. Why? because troops hold objectives, and if your camping an objective and a unit of enemy troops are going to shift you off it, the volume of shots is needed. Again, it's all about playing the objective. A plasma cannon would be just as good in that situation, but i dont want to appear 'spammy'.

Now, you already have anti-air, but bear with me. If you got a Stormtalon, then not only do you cover your anti air, but you present a threat from above yourself, it's something else your opponent has to consider.

That is kinda 'generic' advise, it would help alot to know where you are struggling.

Things that've shifted with regards to spess mehrines:

bad news first so
Cons: dreads and 'raiders are no longer as tough to kill as before. A dread is no longer a cc tarpit o doom. Hull points and the age of the necron make LRs problematic.

Cover in general has been nerfed, with the exception of aegis lines. your scouts will fold easier.

Overwatch and charge distance make problems for assault troops, so asstermies and assmarines are struggling.

Pros: SMs have access to great allies. Ever wanted a platoon of cheap mook guards to stick in front of your tacs? Ever jonesed for just one fire prism? Wish you had access to some of the OP gak the special snowflake chapters get? Well now you can have it.

2+ armor no longer fears power swords. I like tactical termies even better than hammer termies now.

Blasty weapons are better at popping tanks. Hellooooo, vindicator.

Rapid fire weapons are more mobile and useful now that they can single tap after moving. Tacs are even more flexible.

the_scotsman wrote:
Cover in general has been nerfed, with the exception of aegis lines. your scouts will fold easier.

Ruins are still 4+ and most cover I see tends to be ruins. The thing that really makes cover weaker in 6th ed. is Focus Fire, which isn't such a big deal for a five-man scout squad. If you really want nasty cover saves, take Telion; his Stealth affects the whole unit and stacks with their camo-cloaks.

Stern guards should be droppoded, with comby plasmas (7-8) or combimeltas (5).
tactical squads suck imo and are useless point sinks from what i've seen (as primarily nid player, i've seen a lot of marine on my dinnerplate).
Land raider is too costly for a gun platform.
and marines' only real cc unit is hammernators...

the_scotsman wrote:
Overwatch and charge distance make problems for assault troops, so asstermies and assmarines are struggling.

What the hell are you assaulting with assault terminators that are hurting them with overwatch? I barely lose a couple of gaunts to overwatch unless there's a flamer.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with the units you've listed, but I'd advise messing around with the core assumptions of everything if you can. 6e is a lot more focused on speedy units than earlier editions were; the Fast Attack section might be a place to look.

The most dangerous thing to an Assault Terminator unit I can think of is a Purgator unit since they can get of sixteen S8 psycannon shots if they're built right, but that's maybe one kill if you're lucky...

Wow, thanks for all the replies! Thanks for all the advice, I've finally broke my losing streak!

Played an 1850 point game last night, my list was:

Lysander
10 sternguard (powerfist, combi-melta)
5 th/ss terminators
10 tactical marines (power sword, plasma gun)
Las/Plas razorback
10 tactical marines (powerfist, melta gun) These guys are a hangover from 5th edition, havent got round to updating them yet.
Las/Plas razorback
2 Landspeeder Typhoons
Mortis contemptor (kheres Assault Cannons and Cyclone missile launcher)
Land Raider

The sternguard and lysander ride up in the landraider with the plan to take out the biggest threat either with special ammo or a lysander and powerfist sarge combo. I try not to rely on the combi melta as everybody knows you should never give a space marine a special weapon cause he'll only miss! I used to run them in a drop pod but found that if there was a landraider that needed popping then they couldn't do it on the turn they arrived and were effectively wasted as they took out something less dangerous and are then shot to pieces the following turn. Same with the Ironclad in a drop pod, theres too much risk of it doing very little (as i so often found out) and it is normally killed off the following turn anyway as it's on its own among the enemy army, although I still have to try out an all drop pod list in 6th, I think that could be fun. In my game last night against grey knights I basically sat with a gun line, with the razorbacks sat at the back shooting with the lascannons and using the plasma if something got too close. The typhoons sat at the back firing away and the land raider ventured close enough to unload it's cargo on a strike squad. admittedly not very imaginative, but it was nice to break the losing streak! I've not used terminators in this edition yet and the amount of AP3 they soaked up was unreal! Definatley worth keeping. Going to take the advice about tactical squads and strip them down a bit, maybe taking the free options if at all, but I'm just too fond of the Lysander Sternguard combo to lose any, they're the whole reason I play fists!

Yah bolter drill with sternguard gets silly. Ive put 14 ap3 wounds on a 10 man grey hunter squad with attached rune priest one time and watched it melt away. My opponent was so disheartened. But remember its a LOT of point sunk into one squad. So while it is nasty it needs to be protected.

Congrats on your victory, and against GK? an even sweeter victory!

I assume you Deep Striked your TH/SS termies? Did they take many casulties from shooting?

Everything started on the board. It was pretty dense with terrain, didn't want to risk it. They didn't really take much fire, it was the 3 rounds of combat with a Draigo and a paladin squad that saw them off! although they took the paladins with them, and nearly finished off Draigo!