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I'm planning on taking a Librarians with the marine-variant army I am in a constant state of indecision about. However, when you have to model according to WYSIWYG, I have been having a hard time deciding how to equip him. So I would just like to get an idea as to how everybody likes to run their Librarians. Don't limit your discussion to just one codex, I have been jumping back and forth between every marine 'dex when trying to make my decision. Also don't limit yourselves to just discussing the poll options, feel free to discuss the specific details of how you would equip your librarian, including psychic powers (whether you would take book or codex powers, and which ones), weapons, wargear, and what units you would include with your preferred librarian. I only included the poll to see which base is more popular.

I have tried JP and Biker Librarians, hey both die a lot. My terminator librarian (with TH) has only died once, deep strike mishap.

So the concensus seems to be to give Librarians Terminator armour. What other upgrades would you take then? Is it better to take a storm bolter, combi-bolter, or just a storm shield? Additionally, I'm assuming that you can equip them with whatever type of force weapon that you choose. Are force swords, axes, or mauls better? Is Epistolary worth the 50 points?

Storm Shield (Since you want a 3++) & Force Axe for anti TEQ. The great thing is, if you take a BA LIB you can give him the blood lance psychic power and then you have an awesome shooting attack also.

i run the Termi armour one, and have changed the stave to a sword. i just feel that the sword gives you the ability to take on anything thats not 2+

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:
i run the Termi armour one, and have changed the stave to a sword. i just feel that the sword gives you the ability to take on anything thats not 2+

The problem is that the Stave is better than the Sword against everything that's not 3+. If your Librarian only really has to worry about killing 3+ armour models the sword is the way to go, but if he isn't so lucky and has to face a bit of everything (and doesn't want to take an Axe for some reason) you may be better off with the Stave.

BA: Most of the time jump pack, since he is usually leading assault marines or other jump pack units. Though bike could be a viable replacement since it moves just as fast and gives T5 (He would however lose the ability to deep strike). On the occasions a libby is leading foot infatnry or termies, terminator armor is ideal.

The BA codex powers are pretty good, especially Shield of Sanguinius. The timing of BA powers also allows them to cast non-witchfire powers on the turn they come in from reserve and allow a Lv.1 Libby to function very well.

This does not rule out the rule book powers though, Divination works very well with both shooty and CC units and the other ones arent half bad. Though they have some more limitations and epistolery is required to use both powers in one turn.

With all the changes this edition, I wish my friend still had his White Scars army. I think they might actually do well now.

Well, my Terminator Librarian always gets a storm shield for increased survivability.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, my Terminator Librarian always gets a storm shield for increased survivability.

giving a libby a SS is a no brainer. It is not like he needs his gun to shoot anyway, and likely wouldnt be able to shoot it as he was using a PSA

I answered power armor because I played my librarians when I played Blood Angels and always gave them a Jump Pack so that they could DoA and provide the Shield of Sanguinius for survivability, especially since you use it on your opponent's shooting phase instead of your own, like the other similar powers.

 Brother Sergeant Bob wrote:
i run the Termi armour one, and have changed the stave to a sword. i just feel that the sword gives you the ability to take on anything thats not 2+

Exactly what I plan to do for my libby, the GW termie model comes with a stave, so power maul normally, +2 str and ap4, its ok having str 6 but marines and the like still get a save, I am temped to swap that out for a Sword or maybe a axe, for the last few games I have been using libby in PA defensively, sitting back with my devistator squad with divination powers, Perfect timing with krak missiles is very good!, takes out quad guns thunderfires and MEQ very easily, and makes a nice mess of orks and guard hiding behind ADL, I usually put a sang priest in with him as well considering FNP is the only way for marines to save against Perils

I will be trying the libby with Telepathy powers with PA and a JP with a 10 man assault squad with a sang priest this weekend

I have used the termie libby with blood lance twice first game it was DTW'ed second took a wound to perils and killed 3 tac marines (1k point game very little left on the table when I could cast another power). The only thing that worries me with a 195point model (termie armour SS and 2 powers) is as soon as you get your first perils you are worried about using powers again, including powering the force weapon. Would rather keep him as a second hq a little cheaper

I usually run a Power Armored variant with a sword.

However, When I run him in TDA, I chopped off the Ugly Eagle Staff head and made it a halberd, and now he uses a Force Axe.

For my Termie Libby, I use the Lysander model as it comes with a storm shield.

I usually run basic PA, no upgrades, with a staff. GoI/Null for powers.

I like the staff. Odds are, if you are going to try to use a force weapon to ID something, its going to have a high toughness and an invuln save. So the AP of the staff doesn't matter much. And the +2S will help the librarian actually land a wound.

Terminator armour is the only way to run them in my opinion.

Master of Runes + Chooser + Divination powers and buffing Long Fangs...

TFG

 Nevelon wrote:
I usually run basic PA, no upgrades, with a staff. GoI/Null for powers.

I like the staff. Odds are, if you are going to try to use a force weapon to ID something, its going to have a high toughness and an invuln save. So the AP of the staff doesn't matter much. And the +2S will help the librarian actually land a wound.

but most of those critters also have a nice save. Yes you will have trouble landing a wound on a talos or wraithlord, but even with a staff you will still have trouble and then the 3+ save
for dreadknights you have T6 but then also the 2+ save.
Lots of nids with 3+ and T6 but they often are gonna be striking before you with boneswords or crazy high init
Best thing to do is get an Axe

The only thing I can really see the staff for would be nobs and warbosses not in mega armor.

 Exergy wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
I usually run basic PA, no upgrades, with a staff. GoI/Null for powers.

I like the staff. Odds are, if you are going to try to use a force weapon to ID something, its going to have a high toughness and an invuln save. So the AP of the staff doesn't matter much. And the +2S will help the librarian actually land a wound.

but most of those critters also have a nice save. Yes you will have trouble landing a wound on a talos or wraithlord, but even with a staff you will still have trouble and then the 3+ save
for dreadknights you have T6 but then also the 2+ save.
Lots of nids with 3+ and T6 but they often are gonna be striking before you with boneswords or crazy high init
Best thing to do is get an Axe

The only thing I can really see the staff for would be nobs and warbosses not in mega armor.

To be honest, I'm not sure how much me liking the staff is that's the model I've been using since 3rd, and I'm a WYSWYG guy. Might just be deluding myself. But I've always had a problem actually getting wounds in with my Librarian, so when 6th changed how force weapons worked, I thought it was a good thing he had a staff. Unless you are in terminator armor with a storm shield, I would not want to strike at I1 with a librarian. They are too easy to kill.

When I field a librarian, his job is to port around my sternguard with GoI and kick off null zone if he has a chance. Anything else he brings to the table is gravy. And I don't want to sink more points into him then I have to.

I also have a librarian in TDA with a stormbolter and an axe. He sees a lot less play on the table.

I've consitently (8 games now) used mine with TA and SS and kept the maul with great success (the extra S simply forces more save roles), he's never been killed yet and has paid for his points cost all but 1 game. Usually paired with a term Assault squad but not always. Psy power load-out depends on if he's solo or not. I find that pretty situational so far but GoI is my fave so far.

For ba jp sword done. he gets fnp from priest and his unit moves fast hits hard and is rather durable.

for sw termy armor stave done and his buddy with pa sword.

the ba lib is an offensive build. where as the sw ones are defensive and are more support oriented with divination.

if playing against crons never take anything that ignored your own save that ends badly with the scarabs.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
I usually run basic PA, no upgrades, with a staff. GoI/Null for powers.

I like the staff. Odds are, if you are going to try to use a force weapon to ID something, its going to have a high toughness and an invuln save. So the AP of the staff doesn't matter much. And the +2S will help the librarian actually land a wound.

but most of those critters also have a nice save. Yes you will have trouble landing a wound on a talos or wraithlord, but even with a staff you will still have trouble and then the 3+ save
for dreadknights you have T6 but then also the 2+ save.
Lots of nids with 3+ and T6 but they often are gonna be striking before you with boneswords or crazy high init
Best thing to do is get an Axe

The only thing I can really see the staff for would be nobs and warbosses not in mega armor.

To be honest, I'm not sure how much me liking the staff is that's the model I've been using since 3rd, and I'm a WYSWYG guy. Might just be deluding myself. But I've always had a problem actually getting wounds in with my Librarian, so when 6th changed how force weapons worked, I thought it was a good thing he had a staff. Unless you are in terminator armor with a storm shield, I would not want to strike at I1 with a librarian. They are too easy to kill.

When I field a librarian, his job is to port around my sternguard with GoI and kick off null zone if he has a chance. Anything else he brings to the table is gravy. And I don't want to sink more points into him then I have to.

I also have a librarian in TDA with a stormbolter and an axe. He sees a lot less play on the table.

well the axe is free.....

I keep em cheap and cheerful. PA and Power Sword. No other upgrades.

In my experience they die just too fast to be a front line character, so if I want something to get close and krump something I will take a captain instead. And with terminator armour and a storm shield they are so expensive I would rather take 2 PA libby's for just a few more points.

Termie Libby with force axe and SS is what I've been running. I run him with TH/SS Termies popping off nullzone and smite.

I don't think the SS is needed anymore. I only had it for Perils in 5th. now not being able to take an Invul for Perils kinda makes it a moot point imo.

A 2+5++ should be all he needs unless you want to pay for the upgrade/ find it useful

To be fully honest, I'm starting to lean towards taking an Axe + Storm Bolter Terminator Librarian for a couple of reasons. From a strategic standpoint, the codex I'm leaning the most towards is vanilla marines (although having borrowed the GK codex from a friend, there is a lot in the book I like, so they would be my other alternative). From the vanilla codex, when I'm not taking book powers, I'd likely take Gate of Infinity and either Force Dome or Null Zone, either protecting my units or opening up a weakness in my opponents, meaning that I will still be able to fire the Bolter at an enemy. Also, if I take Dome, it means that I can not risk my Librarian if there are a number of high AP shots coming at my unit (I'll take Dome if I'm not sticking him with Terminators). While I may take other powers, including book powers, I still like the options that having a storm bolter gives me. I also decided on the axe for a couple of reasons. The first is that in an assault, he should be safe against most non-AP2 things, even if they are striking faster than him, on account of both his save and the support his unit can provide. Additionally, against most AP2, with an Axe he'll either be striking at the same time (in the case of other axes, fists, etc) or his opponent would be hitting before him anyways (Incubii and a few other units, I think CSM have a couple of new fast AP2 toys to play with). The only case where an Axe causes him to hit slower than an AP2 unit would be against Necrons with Warscythes, but those are usually seen on Lords who already have a 2+ save (which a Librarian would have a hard time responding too without an Axe anyways).

JP only because BA. If I had a TA librarian I would do axe/SS and give him wings... but I like the speed it gives in my jumper armies. The only reason to do not-TA is if you are either following a theme or dont have a LR/that transport power

Jump pack with Shield of Sanguinius and the S10 sword psychic attacks right up there with my 10 man assault squad

As a follow up question, if you were to take Rulebook powers over codex powers, which schools would you roll on for which codex (Vanilla, BA, DA, SW, GK)?

Termi armor simply for an invul, though on occasion I don't mind taking one in just power armor.

On a bike or jump pack, they move mobility, but I feel it doesn't help them. At least for vanilla marines, a good application of null zone does wonders, and a support libby doesn't need to be in melee.